Etihad set to become major shareholder of airberlin

[Less Hair]

Etihad will buy almost 30 percent of airberlin shares and will get two board seats there. Soon to be oneworld member AB will switch feeder flights from Dubai to Abu Dhabi from january.

Etihad steigt bei airberlin ein - FLUG REVUE (http://www.flugrevue.de/de/zivilluftfahrt/airlines-flugbetrieb/etihad-steigt-bei-airberlin-ein.78537.htm)

[mart901]

Interesting to see. All gone quiet on them investing into EI?

[JSCL]

They'll slowly buy up other airlines no doubt - too much spare cash in these Arab counties and their airlines.

[mart901]

Yep, and just the time to do it when recession is lowering the asking prices and companies need investment.

[JSCL]

My view is - if Europe is ever going to get attacked on a mass scale - it'll be through the enterprise. Football clubs, airlines, infrastructure - its all being operated or heavily influenced by nations well outside of Europe. A good way to hinder European countries.

[LD12986]

That's a lot of money Etihad is investing. Are they going to see a return on it?

[mart901]

And just to prove, your point JSCL, albeit off the subject one of the Saudi princes has just invested ￡193m into twitter

[JSCL]

I assume you meant Tw!tter :)

Indeed. Looking at UK - our major energy companies aren't British owned. Only a few are even European owned. Our football clubs are rallied by Saudi and Chinese money. Our transport - Manchester tram network is French owned. Our airports are Canadian, Spanish, Kiwi and other owned with only some remaining British owned.

It's a concern - but unfortunately money talks.

[tornadoken]

What exactly is the issue? Existing shareholders take the best offer - what else? Incomers become locked in to the welfare of their investment - highly unliokely that their intention is to run it into the ground.

[mart901]

For some reason the word t w i t t e r changes to pprune when you press submit lol

[Count von Altibar]

The Lufthansa peeps really aren't going to like this! They hate the ME carriers already and a further move on the German market won't be popular.

[leftofloc]

European airlines will never be able to compete with the ME carriers and their government subsidized fuel, aircrafts and slave labour. European politicians will have to do something about this if they want to keep the number of long haul flights and taxpayers in the European aviation industry. If they don't, then that will hurt European businesses and in the long run European economy. With us carriers protected by chapter 11 and us politicians and ME carriers funded by oil Arabs where does this leave the European airlines and what will happen to them. Maybe they will go the same way the shipping industry went . .

[jabird]

European airlines will never be able to compete with the ME carriers and their government subsidized fuel, aircrafts and slave labour.

Can we keep the s word out of this please? It is exactly like the green lobby saying aviation is 'subsidised' - not strictly true.

Fuel is cheaper nearer the source, that is natural economics, although it is still not subject to duty in the UK, or anywhere else either, due to the Chicago Convention. What is the actual difference between a full tank for an A380 in AUH or DXB compared to LHR, and how much of this difference is due to the margins BAA / FV take, as opposed to shipping costs?

I have always understood that EK were told from day one that they had to turn a profit, and that they have repeatedly continued to do so. Abu Dhabi govt will also be looking for a return from EY, and ditto for their stake in AB, that is a totally different kettle of fish to Italy, Greece etc constantly bailing out bankrupt state carriers.

Aircraft are bought on the 'open' market, or at least Airbus are played off against Boeing (I'll say nothing about each other making accusation of subsidies), and discounts will be won based on the huge size of the orders, just like Ryanair.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but do these airlines not pay internationally competitive wages in order to attract the best staff?

However, I do accept that construction workers are very badly treated, and paying low wages in this field means the cost of building airport infrastructure is drastically reduced.

I don't want to pretend everything is rosy in the Middle East when it clearly isn't, but please don't muddle the region's competitiveness, based on low (and often zero) taxes and cash rich investors (often closely tied with government), together with a can-do (and quicker than you) attitude with the government subsidies of Europe, they are not the same thing.

[lederhosen]

In this case the source means of course the refineries and not the oil fields as anyone who has tankered fuel to middle eastern airfields surrounded by oil wells will know. Generally fuel is cheaper at big airfields where economies of scale kick in. You can hardly criticize the Emiratis that their home bases have got so big.

Their principal advantage is owners who are able to take the long view. Combine this with their advantageous location and you have obvious winners. The only downside is the risk of political instability in the region. For Air Berlin this is a potential game changer (and a big relief for the employees). For E tihad it looks a smart deal. Both airlines have a lot in common, lots of growth but yet to make a decent return. Lets see what happens.

[The SSK]

In Dubai, in Abu Dhabi and in Doha, the airline, the airport and the governmental regulator are inextricably linked, often the same people or the same family. Factor in vast wealth, huge egos and a fierce inter-Emirate rivalry and you have the recipe for the madness that is going on there now.

Governmental support – call it subsidy if you like – consists mainly of pouring money into airport development, with capacities far, far, far above the local needs, and charging peanuts for user charges. Of course all airlines using those airports benefit from the same low charges, but that’s not the point. The point is that Emirates carries Europe-Far East passengers (take Manchester-Hong Kong as an example) which would otherwise fly BA over LHR, LH over FRA, AF over CDG or KL over AMS. All those airlines pay full-strength user charges at the transfer point, Emirates pays next to nothing.

Aircraft financing: under the EU and US export credit schemes, generous funding (underwritten by EU and US taxpayers) is available for Airbus and Boeing products sold into countries other than the five manufacturing countries (US, UK, Germany, France, Spain). But even if you disregard this, what European airline could put forward a funding package, let alone a business case, for a mega-order of the same magnitude as the Gulf carriers like to trump each other with at regular intervals.

Then there are the genuine areas of discrimination. European airlines can’t sell tickets in the Gulf States, they have to work through a local sales agent – on commission of course. And the local sales agent is part of the same business conglomerate as the airport and the hub carrier, not to mention the ground handler that you are obliged to use. European airlines are not permitted to recruit staff from local carriers, but local carriers can poach the Europeans’ experiences staff. Local airlines own and operate subsidised housing for their expat employees, European airlines are not permitted to do this. European airlines are not permitted to promote themselves through the sponsoring of sporting and cultural events … the list goes on and on.

But fuel, no. The Gulf carriers pay the market rate.

[clipstone1]

so the question is will AB still join One World? with their major shareholder being more tied to Virgin than any of the One World carriers?

[LD12986]

Air Berlin is still set to join Oneworld next year. Alliance members having relationships with carriers outside their alliance is not without precedent.

[10 DME ARC]

So at the moment BER's DXB services are full of German tourists and the odd European expat, moving the services to AUH would piss off the tourists as most are going to DXB or East Coast hotels adding a 60min extra drive on one of the most dangerous roads in the world(even after the speed limit was reduced from 160 to 140!!) to there transit.
So I guess ETD want BER to feed ETD services onwards from AUH? What are the German regulators going to say to this as Germany is very restricted for ME carriers!? Interesting, can see TUI gaining pax's at DXB if this happens.

[jabird]

10DA,

Surely this is about more than one airline feeding another for connections? I'm not sure why someone would want to fly to BER on AB, then fly over to either DXB or AUH for another onward connection, when there will often be more direct routes on offer.

As for AUH v DXB as destinations, EY have been promoting AUH as their Ryanairport for DXB for a while, based on it being a less congested airport to use - but I don't think that compensates for the highway, not when DXB is so central already.

Considering that AUH also has its fair share of tourist draws, I would expect many people to visit both, although the hotel offering in DXB is still somewhat larger, even though AUH has the Emirate Palace.