It seems to be on 19th and 29 of december.

is anyone surprised....

I take it that the strike hardly involves the Air Nostrum pilots? Thanks.

I taught they were on strike with the last year, doing a 5 knot taxi every day. They only do it in Spain of course they would not get away with it anywhere else:ugh:

Goodness, I'm all for solidarity but given the perilous state of the Spanish economy/banking sector/property market is it really the time for them to make their stand?

Iberia pilots on strike

Will anyone notice the difference? Chaos Central (aka Barajas) should be even more interesting

Goodness, I'm all for solidarity but given the perilous state of the Spanish economy/banking sector/property market is it really the time for them to make their stand?

I´d say the other way round is correct. Good that they have the balls to strike despite the economic woes - which will be used to excuse anything. See the ATC guys.

Have to agree there. All the best to our spanish colleagues. If we pilots do nothing the downward spiral will continue with our T&Cs, as can be observed at RYR and others.

:ok: full support to the IBE pilots :ok:

In this site http://requiemporiberia.********.com/ you can find a lot of information in spanish about the actual situation of Iberia pilots.

I take it that the strike hardly involves the Air Nostrum pilots?
Air Nostril appear to be operating normally in/out of SVQ at least...

:yuk: Support for IBE pilots whom are on strike and :ok: for those whom are not on Strike

I was interviewed by Spanish TV when the dates for the strike were announced - whether it was aired or not I don't know, but I said I was not in favour. Quite frankly, at a time when millions of Spaniards are unemployed, they set a bad example. Whilst we all have the right to strike, now is not the time.

:mad: for IBERIA in general and not forgetting :yuk: for SPANAIR

Note that this is my personal opinion, a long suffering SELF on IBERIA.

Instead of blaming the pilots for attempting to defend the terms and conditions they signed up for, try blaming the greedy bonus -grabbing managers & self serving politicians who are trying to sell them, & the skills they provide, down the river ,thereby reducing their lot to the lowest common denominator.
I am sure if your boss offered you a 40 ? 50 ? or whatever % paycut you would just meekly accept, bend over & hand him the tube of vasaline ? . . . . well on reflection, yes maybe you would, but do not expect us all to be so pathetic.

Sure Air Europa were on strike the other day also:\

Good luck to the Iberia pilots. At least they have the guts to stand up to the likes of Willie & Co.

Maybe they could take a day course in the use of the English language in the air whilst they are away from work ?

Good Luck to the Iberia Pilots, why should they stand back and watch their command/prospects be eroded?

Pity on Madrid ATC who act like kids without sweets.

The question is whether the pilot's union will be able to squeeze blood from a rock ?

What are the key points/reasons our hard grafting spainish colleagues are striking for?
If they're not in the sky, who are spainish ATC going to give the short cuts to:yuk:

how much do Iberia pilots make? I thought they were pretty well protected flying for a national carrier that will NEVER go bankrupt no matter what (see Swiss Air).

With disempleo of 21% what can you complain about? Is life really that bad for them?

Here in the US of A you never know if the the airline you're flying for will be around a few years from now.

I just read in the news about Iberia Express and I take my previous statement back. Yep, that's pretty illegal for management to do that. Airline within and airline with a B pay scale.

Maybe they could take a day course in the use of the English language in the air whilst they are away from work ?

A crass and worthless comment that this tread didn't need. What has English proficiency to do with the reasons behind this strike? When was the last time pilots tried to stand up to bullish management and arm-twisting operators in this country?

:mad:

I find it a bit sickening to hear some posters encouraging the Iberia pilots to stand up to Willie Walsh, when BA's cabin crew were undermined in their own dispute through the Flight Crew volunteering to fly as volunteers.

What an appalling display of self-preservation.

Yes good luck to Iberia pilots but you have to look back at the long history of this
like Iberia has not hired pilots since 2000 and been pressuring their pilots since
creating Clickair and removing pilots from Barcelona.

Rumour is that the Iberia pilots are back at the negotiating table.?



Wonder if they will accept lower pay scales so that the Iberia FO´s can fly as Captains at Iberia express.

In the meantime taxiing at 5 knots, etc continues.

Spanish ATC still giving few directs shortcuts compared to Europe adding tons of carbon dioxide and costing Spanish airlines millions. Or giving directs that dont shortcut much at the end.

I find it a bit sickening to hear some posters encouraging the Iberia pilots to stand up to Willie Walsh, when BA's cabin crew were undermined in their own dispute through the Flight Crew volunteering to fly as volunteers.

What an appalling display of self-preservation.

What a bizarre comment....or was it spanish/Iberia pilots undermining the BA cabins dispute?

they kept the intention and are today on strike....

Best of luck to Iberia pilots!!

I wonder what would be the tone of this thread if instead of IBEXPRESS looming over the Iberia pilots there was a BRITEXPRESS looming over BA ones.

How many of you would be enthusiastic about it and sending CVs?
how many angry when the BA pilots announced strikes?
how many using the crisis as the excuse for the management to screw workers?

Quote:
Maybe they could take a day course in the use of the English language in the air whilst they are away from work ?

A crass and worthless comment that this tread didn't need. What has English proficiency to do with the reasons behind this strike? When was the last time pilots tried to stand up to bullish management and arm-twisting operators in this country?

I don't think it's a crass and worthless comment at all. English proficiency may have nothing to do with the strike, but lack of it explains why Iberia is in the dark ages in terms of customer service.

Whilst I admit that my exposure to Iberia pilots has been listening to the usually unintelligible mumblings from the cockpit, I can comment about the abysmal lack of language proficiency of the employees with whom I have been unfortunate enough to have dealings, that being ground, administrative, and cabin personnel. Not only are they usually sullen and disinterested at best, unlike most Spanish people, but for an international airlines, their language skills are a disgrace.

Fortunately I speak Spanish, otherwise I would have found it totally impossible to deal or work with these people, mostly monoglot. I remember one occasion when waiting for a severely delayed flight at Chaos Central (Barajas) to Johannesburg, the announcements were only being made in Spanish. The English speakers wanted to know what was going on and I got fed up with translating and I asked the ground hostess (before anyone says it, AENA, but Iberia's attitude is the same) to make the announcements in English, to which she asked why .... I explained that most of the passengers were in transit between English speaking countries and didn't understand Spanish, to which she replied : "Entonces estan unos tontos", roughly, "then they must be a bunch of idiots."

This was not an isolated incident, I lived in Spain for a couple of years and had to use their appalling airline frequently.

Yes, a further 2 strike dates have been announced for January
Further Iberia Strike Dates Announced (http://www.tumbit.com/news/articles/4508-further-iberia-strike-dates-announced.html)

The thing that is not acceptable is pilots accepting lower pay while the fat cat airline Executives such as Willie Walsh and Vasquez, Etc. increase theirs.

Is all your pay cut going to make things more competitive for shareholders ?

Go ahead ask the shareholders

Go on keep on letting them ruin your conditions without taking look out for yourself only, and not be united watch how your pay will decrease.

After they screw the Iberia pilots watch how they will congratulate themselves with some nice fat bonuses.

I suppose that these executives have not noticed the Occupy Wall street movement.

It is time for all us pilots to start our own occupy Runway movement.
IT IS TIME TO ROCK THEIR WORLD!

Can´t happen ? look at Egypt and the Middle East.

If you have no job would you accept a job at Iberia express while other pilots are striking against it to fight for decent working conditions and a decent way of life ?



Remember we are all responsable for our own actions and non action.

English proficiency may have nothing to do with the strike, but lack of it explains why Iberia is in the dark ages in terms of customer service.

So if it has nothing to do with the strike (and the reasons behind it...) neither you or who made that useless comment shall take it any further into THIS tread. If you want to whine about IB, AENA Spanish ATC etc, etc there are plenty others available and if not you can always open one in the appropriate section, can't you?

As far as your discontent with their "help-desk" in Barajas, you could have complained to the duty manager/supervisor, me thinks. Done myself several times with BA.

Take an hard look at what is happening around EU (and USA) not just in the aviation industry, how people are getting increasingly fed up with almost everything. I have lived in UK for a while now and I find hard to believe everything is fine up here.

These guys are taking on WWalsh and I say good luck to them, the pendulum has swung too far in favour of the bosses and the big shareholders.I hope, in spite of the inopportune timing, that Iberia pilots give Senor Walsh a hiding.

Since BA pilots volunteered to fly as cabin crew, it would seem hypocritical in the extreme if they took industrial action to protect their T&C's.

Perhaps IAG contracts for BMI flight crew and the creation of BA Express at Heathrow, may make them wish they had kept their noses out of the cabin crew dispute?

At least Iberia pilots would never stoop so low and are now valiantly fighting the savage attack on their jobs by Walsh. Good luck to them!

As for BA flight crew, what goes around, comes around.

Well, things are moving along quickly.

I have just read the BMI proposal from Stephen Riley and it makes very uncomfortable reading.

Still glad you two ringers on the 747 acted as strike breakers? Seemed like a jolly good idea at the time to screw your cabin crew colleagues. And now look at this!!

Nobody biting Count? Aaah, what a shame.

Much respect to the Iberia pilots for having the cojones to strike! Could we, here in the UK, in BALPA learn something from all this?I guess we'll have to await the final outcome and see how the land lies. I wonder what the Virgin guys think about it all ( in so much their ability to strike after an impressive ballot result, was removed at the 11th hr)?

IB management is hardly the most competent, and the transfer of 40 A320s from IB to IB Express (I2) over the next few years should give IB staff reasons to worry.

However, IB pilots union leaders are either paranoid or want to use "nationalistic" feeling to try to get support among the spanish public.

They are saying that the management "plan" is to do away with IB so that BA can use MAD to do long haul flights connecting Latin America with Asia!that BA will "take over" Madrid!

That BA have emptied IB of its cash so that it could buy 50 airplanes!

No, I am not joking:
Here is one (of many) articles in Spanish that quote the claims by the SEPLA leadership :
El Sepla acusa a British de "vaciar la caja" de Iberia (http://www.aviaciondigitalglobal.com/noticia.asp?NotId=18151&NotDesignId=4)

Hi Condorox

Don´t know if paranoid or Nationalistic but a few things spring to mind... a cash tight BA´s employee pension fund; a 2000000000 Euros cash assets in IB´s pockets; a possible future near zero BA expansion at LHR due to airport capacity; a low time fleet; a 20% share market share in SA. And if, and only if, IAG = BA, at zero cost for BA

Wouldn´t know if any of this represents the truth of the reality but it could certainly be easily presented as a feasible scenario.

In any case, SEPLA is playing his cards the way it sees fit... and I, personally, don´t blame them.

Not IB myself...

WSA

Greetings WSA,
I am neither IB or BA, but do follow their moves with interest. Both companies are operationally independent, so no cash from one to the other, least of all for pension funds.
BA is making money from its own operations, as its yields have been improving. IB is losing money and thus having to use up its cash reserves.

The thing is, BA had some tough times (remember it parking a few 747s?), and has been recovering (747s are back, with new first class), whilst IB had not had it as bad (not least as its competition has been more limited on long haul) and only losing money on short haul ops.. But things have changed with the Spanish economy in bad shape, more competition (KL-AF and LH have added routes and capacity to LatAm) and high fuel price have derived in overall losses for IB. The bad times have now hit it.

In my view a good solution for IB would have been to come to an agreement between management and staff, as BA did with theirs that allow lower costs on certain operations (For instance now BA can use 744 to Moscow and back with the same crew, whereas before such a thing would have meant change of crew at Moscow with accommodation costs for 14 people).

As for growth at LHR, you will find that BA will increase its long haul significantly with some slots it has acquired (some leased, some bought), and soon with bmi and all the slots that come with it. BA ordered A380s and 787s a few years ago for delivery from next year, and they will come in handy. For the moment they will have to do with 77Ws. A number of long haul destinations will be added over time.

Hi all,
I am an Iberia pilot. You say that BA and IB are financially independent because they are operational independent. The fact that they are operating independently does not mean they are not shifting cash one to another. When they merged two years ago the cash in BA was in dire straits, now they are expanding with no cash problems (the economy in UK is not that great also) thanks to the cash contributed by IB. I have no proofs though. And I fully respect my colleagues at BA. I am praying for the time when we are the same company with the same agreement, although I cannot figure out how this can be achieved.

Anyway, that is not the case of the strike, although it has been oustated by SEPLA (Iberia pilot union). The main reason is that the agreement we came upon with the previous Iberia management has been broken unilaterally by the actual management. In that agreement we lost some rights to permit Iberia to be more productive, and in change they signed they were not going to grow outsourcing production. And now we have lost those rights and no future for Iberia pilots. That said in a crisis environment and the fact that there are a lot of spanish pilots wanting to come home again makes the problem even worse.

I wish myself a lot of luck everyday when I get up in the mornings, though I know I am still a lucky guy if I look out of the window...

Saludos Javierito,

The first thing that I would say is that I have sympathy with some of the issues that have led you to strike. However, I think that pilots, and certainly its union leadership is doing itself no favours and certainly losing respect and credibility by mixing BA and "the British" as what is the cause of Iberia's troubles.

BA's main financial trouble has been the pension hole, but this hole is somewhat flexible, as to a large extent it depends on the value of its pension fund investments that have suffered in a the financial crisis, and in any case they have a plan to balance it over time. And that is possible so long as the company generates profits -which it has been doing of late.

By the way, BA is not growing at 11% as Pascual said in very misleading way. That is only in Spain (more flights from LCY to the Med, mainly -but that has already changed as more capacity has switched to IB on the LHR-MAD market)

At the time of the merger, BA was at a bad point, but it has not been by bloodsucking IB that it is back in profit. The crisis hit it faster than it affected IB, but things are different now, and Spain's economy is looking worse than the UK's. BA shrank its capacity -and workforce- before, and it's now time for IB to shrink (though they are saying that current employees will stay, and with the same conditions -with more going to long haul when the A330s enter operations in one year's time)

The main thing is whether companies can be profitable.
Its not IB's pilots fault that there is crisis, nor that the fuel is very expensive and that the Euro is losing value (and so making dollar related expenses such as fuel and insurances even more expensive), or indeed that Ryanair and easyjet have been gaining a lot of market share at the expense of IB.

But at the end of the day, every company has to have more money coming in that going out in order to be viable, unless the State can subsidize it, and that is out of the question.

With a lower operational cost per passenger, the A330s will surely give IB an advantage in the long haul market, but IB has already squeezed its A320s with seats, charges or food and drink, and still don't seem to balance the books. Perhaps they do need more flexibility from its crews, and they obviously don't think that can be done under the current terms, and are thus creating another company 100% owned by them.

A bad state of affairs indeed. Perhaps having a higher quality product might have attracted higher paying passengers in the short haul and would have made this part of the business viable. But management obviously think that they need lower costs from its staff, and there are clearly plenty of pilots and FA's (some unemployed, some at Spanair and Vueling) who are willing to work for IB Express.

Hi again Condorox,

You see, Iberia is not Ryanair or Easyjet. LCC operate point to point and their crews do not sleep abroad. LCC do have their maintenance, handling, etc. outsourced.
Iberia as well as the main majors are net airlines, that is, they need short flights to take customers to the hub for their long haul flights, but Iberia management is trying to compete with Ryanair and Easyjet. why? Short flights in Iberia will always require their crews to sleep abroad, and that requires an agreement as well. BA has an agreement. why can't we have the same one? Ain't we the same airline?

I am a F/O in Iberia. I have been flying more than 13 years like most of my mates, and I have more than 7000 hours behind my butt. Do you think I have waited all this time to see Iberia disappear in a LCC competing with Ryanair?
If I were to work in LCC, I would prefer a real LCC than a garbage like this one.

Iberia needs to take an agreement with us if it wants to be competitive as BA, Air France, Lufthansa and all the majors are doing, and will be the only way for Iberia to survive, with their crews. At least that is the way I see it...only then, with happy crews and a happy family you will see the income numbers exceed expenses.

Saludos Javierito,

As I said, I am not defending IB's management. I tend to think that offering a differentiated product might be better than competing against Ryanair than just offering low fares, whilst not being able to have the same cost base. But at the end of the day, the strategy rests with the management, and obviously IB since a long time has gone down the route of no frills, food and drink for purchase, and no legroom advantage, instead of a "classic service". Perhaps it is fares that drive IB's market. BA has also cut down service, and is putting more seats on planes, and yet they keep a "difference' with the LCCs. It's also true that LCCs don't fly to LHR, whereas they have bases in MAD and BCN -making IB's and BA's situations quite different, as are the UK and Spanish markets.

However, what IB says about its its Express, is simply a lower cost base than it has at the moment, and mix its traffic to have both O&D and connecting traffic with the end result being a saving of €100 million a year, that would make a big difference on the bottom line.

I doubt that there is anything that the pilots union can do about it. The current pilots such as yourself will keep your jobs and your terms, but no more will be employed. The new pilots (and FAs) joining IB express at their own free will will have lower wages, and different terms.
Although I believe that Captain's salary will still be attractive enough to temp F/Os currently at IB.

What can I say, it's a nasty world out there. You should indeed feel lucky to have a good job. But clearly there are others willing to work for less, and that is a market driving force.

I guess that if IB is successful in lowering its costs, at least it will be able to grow in long haul flights, creating more opportunities for pilots already in the company.