Search and Rescue Training Unit

[SARTU]

The Search and Rescue Training Unit (SARTU) will be celebrating 50 years of SAR training at RAF Valley in 2012.

As part of the event the Unit is putting together a detailed history from the past 50 years. We would be very grateful for any information or photos anyone on this forum has about SARTU, SARTS or the CFS(H) detachment at RAF Valley which preceded it.

We will update this forum with information about events but first date for diaries is 18 May 12 to include a commemorative dinner in the Officers Mess for all current and past SARTU/SARTS etc staff and any other individuals connected to the Unit.

Feel free to PM for further details or with any questions.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

SARTU,

Could you give me five pound coins for this fiver? Oh no, that's right, SARTU don't do change...:E

[Max Contingency]

Brilliant idea but....... if you want it to be representative of the SARTU of old you will need to do some form of pre selection.
I suggest you have a group of elderly aircrewmen on the door (we could call them the 'rearcrew mafia') and they could deny entry to anyone they dont like. :)

[charliegolf]

Torque and Max,

If you were at SARTU you'd have to do those posts again.:=

CG

[Cabe LeCutter]

Sounds to me like we are going to find out which posters on Prune were chopped at SARTU :E:E

Heads down, look out for the flack :p

[fergineer]

Me, I was. Good job too as I went trucky and never looked back including a 4 year tour in Oman. I did not hold any grudge though even though I was not sure why I was chopped.

[upgently]

Ferineer, in answer to why Sartu didn't work for you may I direct you to the post of Max Contingency. It did happen and it should never have been allowed to.:=

[teeteringhead]

Not chopped (see below) but most certainly NOT recommended SAR. :D

Can remember one debrief in its entirety:

In was, in truth, an awful trip - computer out drums or some such nonsense - so not only "God Save the Queen" but "Land of my Fathers" played on the RRPM. The walk back into 3 Sqn CFS(H) - as it was then - was kind of quiet.

Taken into one of those tiny "photo booth" type briefing/debriefing cells by Tall Geordie QHI:

TGQ: Well, that wasna quite bad enough to chop yer! It wasna even bad enough to re-fly ......... [long pause] .... but it was f:mad:ing awful!

Whereupon we briefed and auth'd the solo trip that followed! (Computer out not allowed)

[Lingo Dan]

TorqueOfTheDevil "....:SARTU don't do change":E

I was on SARTU in the 80s (not "rear-crew mafia, I hasten to add). I was at a Staff Meeting in which a change to some minor detail of "standard patter" was being discussed.

After a seemingly endless debate, a decision was finally taken, some wag suggested that the decision to bomb Hiroshima had probably been reached more easily. His observation went into the line book within minutes!

So I can confirm that SARTU do in fact do DO change - it just takes them a long time:)

[Floppy Link]

Good excuse for yet another Wessex photo!

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc264/Boecopter/31760_1370451152575_1570623523_31245210_6662445_n.jpg

[Rigga]

So...how do I get a red & white Whirlwing pic on 'ere?

[OKOC]

I spent the most miserable time of my entire career at the hands of the ALM mafia at SARTU in the early 80's. Graded as "above average" for the basic phase with just 1 refly with Paul M***en (top bloke). Then on compulsory instructor change for advanced phase I failed every flight thereafter and ran out of refly hours with MALM Karl P***ock and his henchman Sgt Andy B**l. Total tw*ts the pair of them. "Position in door wrong, units wrong, patter wrong, (brevet wrong)". I subsequently discovered that P***ock had NEVER passed a Nav.

I hope they all have a lovely reunion.

[Cabe LeCutter]

Well that took longer than I thought.

OKOC, you are wrong, Karl passed me and I was wearing the wrong brevet at the time, as was another guy on my course. But it is OK as you do not really come over as bitter and twisted.:ooh::ooh:

Heads down, look out for the flack :p

[OKOC]

But it is OK as you do not really come over as bitter and twisted
No Cabe, YOU are wrong, I am bitter and twisted :}

What hurts is that I wanted the job soooo much and I know I failed MAINLY because my face/brevet/rank didn't fit or ALM mafia didn't like the way I put my bone dome on or didn't like the way I walked down from the car park and THAT M8 is not really right. Thank god it's changed at SARTU.

You will be pleased to know that this is my last post on this thread as you, Cabe, are right, I am still raw after all these years and I ain't revisiting anymore. Bye.

PS Seriously and honestly, I wish I had made it cos I would have liked to attend the celebrations at Valley. SAR do a great job--shame it's going civi.

[Tiger_mate]

The mid-eighties saw some serious ego`s resident in the rear crew mafia.

For me; day one of the SAR Famil (Halfway through a tour on the plastic pursuit ship) & a black flag day.

DA Question of the day:

"Whats the immediate action to a Hyd 1 failure?"
"T_M" (Not expecting to be asked a Wessex tech question)
"Put the gear down"

Que a bad attitude tag, and I was yet to start the course!

Followed by Mr Ego personified (SE) teaching First Aid and more specifically what to do with a diabetic, insulin reaction.
Complete autocratic Bx followed despite me having seen and done the actions required hundreds of times.

I should have returned to Germany at the end of day one. Happily for everybody, it is a quite different atmosphere at Valley these days. ....and in the interests of fair play; 240 OCU (Puma & Chinook) also had its fair share of knobbers at the time.

My first ever helicopter flight was in XP351, a SAR Whirlwind at Valley in '74. Lasted about :25mins but must have made a good impression, for the RAF have now had my services for over 34 years, most of which as Rotary Rear Crew.

[chopabeefer]

Are you all the same as you were 20 years ago? No, neither is SARTU. It is celebrating a significant milestone, and is justified in doing so, regardless of the petty bitterness shown by some here. Every RAF SAR pilot/crewman went through SARTU, and we have a superb SAR force - so they did something right. There were many 'face doesn't fit' staff (mostly rearcrew) - all have gone. Some are dead. Happy?

As for now - think you'll find they do change very well - look at what they're doing now - multicultural and loads of different courses.

Bitterness is painful and wasteful. It hurts all sides. What happened is done, look foward. SARTU is.

[jamesdevice]

" look foward. SARTU is"

Are you not being shut down as part of the out-sourcing contract?
I'd assumed this was more of a wake than a party

[SARTU_Wannabe]

Are you all the same as you were 20 years ago? No, neither is SARTU.Thank god.

It is celebrating a significant milestone, and is justified in doing so, regardless of the petty bitterness shown by some here.Really?

To extend your analogy: Is Germany the same as it was 70 years ago? No. It no longer carries out widespread genocide. but this is scarcely a good reason to celebrate. Your "petty bitterness" is someone else's career ending chop decision.

Every RAF SAR pilot/crewman went through SARTU, and we have a superb SAR force - so they did something right.Entirely non-sequitur. Going back to my own example above, Germany now has an (arguably) decent manufacturing base. This justifies the holocaust? No, of course it doesn't. Why then do you think that the quality of people current undertaking SAR duties justifies the entirely unacceptable behaviour that SARTU permitted in the past?

There were many 'face doesn't fit' staff (mostly rearcrew) - all have gone. Some are dead. Happy?Errrr. No. Are those who are not dead facing charges for bullying/harassment/constructive dismissal?


As for now - think you'll find they do change very well - look at what they're doing now - multicultural and loads of different courses.OMG! They speak to black folks now? How amazing!!!!

Bitterness is painful and wasteful. It hurts all sides. What happened is done, look foward. SARTU is. Yeah, lets bury the past rather than learn from our mistakes. In any event the contractors look set to take over and remove the issue from those who failed to manage it at all.

[Kreuger flap]

You are blaming SARTU for the Holocaust? Not sure if a drums trip in Holyhead harbour is that bad.

[SARTU_Wannabe]

You know fine well I'm not doing that.

I'm pointing out attempts by chopabeefer to REDUCE/DISRUPT/SUPPRESS the many bad things that have happened under the SARTU banner over the years.

[Kreuger flap]

Oh dear, did you get chopped as well?

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Chopped as well :p

Joined SARTU in the late 80's and spent the best part of 2 years there as a Sgt techie helping run the line. I socialised and made friends with all the folk there, both rear crew and pilots.

Saw the light applied for ALM and with a huge amount of help from the SARTU rear crew folk I applied and coasted through the selection process.

Sailed through Biggen Hill, Finningly, Shawbury and whilst at Shawbury I set off to SARTU for the 2 week SAR Famil course. At 54 I look back on this as the only 14 days of my RAF career where I felt absolutely powerless to control my destiney.

In quarters at Valley at the time with K and the kids I ran home most evenings as part of the keep fit thing almost in tears wondering why the folk I "knew" were ******* me over?

Looking back over 37 years of service I have only "hated" as in seriously wished ill of 2 people I ever met. In this instance I really really do hope that little welsh **** of a Nav gets his just reward and when he does I genuinely hope it really really hurts :ok:

[oldbeefer]

Seldomfit

I really think you should consider deleting that last bit - totally unnecessary and distasteful.

[oldbeefer]

Ah - I see you have while I was typing!

[PTC REMF]

Went through SARTU in 2004, still full of w@nkers.

[Airborne Aircrew]

I went to SARTU twice, holding, so on neither occasion were they in a position to do me good or harm. I really enjoyed myself both times even though I found watched my 3000th retrieval of a drum quite mind numbing. I will admit though that the arbitrary nature of the criticism is something I remember still so, like it or not, there is definitely some warranted criticism taking place in this thread.

[Sun Who]

I went through SARTU (successfully) in 2000. I came to SAR having done 2 instructional tours on fixed wing. Like Airborne Aircrew, I also found the post-sortie criticism (I won't say debriefs) to be arbitrary.
My experience was that what passed for instructional technique at SARTU wasn't much more than pointed (frequently random) criticism.
Despite enjoying my time on SAR immensely, I was singularly underwhelmed by both the instructors and the 'leadership' at SARTU.

Sun.

[teeteringhead]

Not sure if a drums trip in Holyhead harbour is that bad. ... mine was (see Post No 8!) :{

[pasptoo]

It would seem that SARTU has opened a can of worms it (he) didn't expect.........Good Luck with that Reunion - So Many Happy Memories! It would make an interesting documentary

[Avionker]

I've got to admit this thread has me intrigued. I was groundcrew on B Flt, 202 Sqn from Jan '86 to Feb '00 and I had no idea that SARTU was as described in these posts.

All the rear crew. and most of the pilots for that matter, that I had dealings with in that period seemed to be thoroughly decent.

[Cornish Jack]

Good heavens - SARTU ('twas CFS(H) when I was there) sounds extraordinarily like the JATCC regime of the 70's.
I was short-toured from Thorney to instruct at Valley and joined my original instructors 'Jean' Batten, Rick Windon and Master (Roy) Bates ... Nav and Siggies. From memory, the 'company line' was to look for commonsense and enthusiasm and encourage it. When 'Cav the Nav' took over it was more of the same but more so. Towards the end of my time there I failed one chap because I felt that he could have been a liability to himself as well as his 'survivor'. That afternoon Cav booked a staff detail and went as survivor with me on the wire ... a sort of 'money where your mouth is' 45 minutes!!! Can still recall the TOTAL exhaustion!!:(
Seem to recall that, about the time I left, there was a much more specific set of guidelines introduced for rear crew, including a requirement to have passed the swimming test - not so when I started!! Interestingly, the most active winchman on the Valley flight, at that time, was 'Willy the Winch' who could not swim at all.
Seems a shame that what was, for me, the VERY best part of my career, could have, if only briefly, later become a source of such ill feeling. :(

[minigundiplomat]

I'm sure the reunion will be 'spirited'. Most of the strokers have moved on and there are some really good lads there now, though some of the old guard are still clinging on by their fingertips.
Perhaps a BBQ on the beach, I know of at least one old goose that I'd like to see torched.

Mine's a bitter.... but only a small one.

[llamaman]

Some harsh comments, let me guess, from those who weren't quite good enough per chance?

Bait set.

[PTC REMF]

Went through in 2004 on the SH look see. SARTU put me off ever applying to do the job for real.

[charliegolf]

Llamaman, 34 posts. A normal distrubution this list ain't.

CG

[llamaman]

CG

I haven't a scooby what you are talking about. Your spelling doesn't help ;)

[Sun Who]

Llamaman,

As I said in my previous post, I passed SARTU successfully but was still shocked by the poor instruction and culture of (un-justified) superiority displayed by the rearcrew staff. Most of the front seaters were fine and in fact frequently appeared embarrassed by the things they heard coming from the rear of the cab.

It was a genuine shame. The 7 years I spent on SAR were amongst the most enjoyable of the 25 I spent in the RAF. That was however, despite my experiences on SARTU, not because of them.

Sun.

[obnoxio f*ckwit]

Went through the end of Shawbury SARTU course as pilot in 94, and in very slight mitigation, they were not helped by the fact that back then the SARTU element took place AFTER the 'wings' trip at Shawbury and usually 80-90% of the pilot students actively did not want to go SAR (8 out of 9 in our case). However the overriding impression I left with was that too many of the instructors, both front and back, had simply been there too long. Nice spot by the beach though.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

llalla,

Self confessed failure at SARTU as a previous post indicates however having been involved, directly and indirectly with J model conversion for the last 10 years I sort of wonder how we have only failed 1 ALM in all that time :confused:

I know your bait was set so I assume you are not a defender of the SARTU thing but if you could find it out it would be very interesting to know the failure rate over the years :ok:

[rotorfossil]

I'm absolutely astonished at the adverse comments on this thread. In my time at 3 Sqn/SARTS/SARTU as a pilot instructor/staff pilot in the mid '70's, the rear crew staff instructors seemed to do a damned good job.
However, the failure rate for rear crew was high, sometimes as high as 40%, but it wasn't hard to detect from the the cockpit those who weren't going to make it. Some were simply not happy working in the water on the end of the wire or not up to the physical demands, and I know having tried it on many occasions. A lot however struggled with the co-ordination of winch operating and "pattering" to form a word picture of what what going on down below within the format of the correct wording.
I think it was a job with high demands and wasn't not suited to everybody.

[Vie sans frontieres]

Some were simply not happy working in the water on the end of the wire or not up to the physical demands, and I know having tried it on many occasions. A lot however struggled with the co-ordination of winch operating and "pattering" to form a word picture of what what going on down below within the format of the correct wording.


There's your answer SFFP. The requirements of the Hercules loadmaster are quite different.

[Kreuger flap]

The requirements of the Hercules loadmaster are quite different. VSF is correct. Just how hard can it be to ask the Captain if he wants sugar with his tea and to hand out those oh so tasty white butty boxes. Clearly it was too difficult for your one failure SFFP, but then again not everybody is suited to waiting on others.

[Vie sans frontieres]

Bit harsh.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

There's your answer SFFP. The requirements of the Hercules loadmaster are quite different.

Strange that many of those who were chopped managed to go on and have fruitful and successful careers on the Chinook, Puma etc :ok:

[Vie sans frontieres]

Strange to some, not others. :rolleyes:

[SARTU]

Not wishing to open old wounds......:ouch:

Update and final call. SARTU 50th celebrations, open day and dinner Fri 18 and Sat 19 May. Open to all former staff - aircrew, ground crew, engineers etc.

Please pm for more info.

[OafOrfUxAche]

open day and dinner Fri 18 and Sat 19 May


Why hasn't the Jubilee flypast at Windsor been moved from this date to avoid a clash with the SARTU event? Why?

[Q-SKI]

Mmmm, despite a good pre- selection, I was told by one of the mafia that I would fail the main course. It came as no surprise that his prediction came true!

[chopabeefer]

Safe to say that the rearcrew mafia described here are now gone (although only to the staff at Tesco's in Holyhead in some cases). SARTU is unrecognizable now, and is a denizen of instructing prowess par excellence (Well, maybe a few too many eggs in the pudding...) - but it is a LOT better than it was. And let's be honest - it was pretty dire in the 90's.

If you are a fan - go the reunion, have a jar or 5, and enjoy it.Iif you are bitter, twisted, sour etc etc. then simply stay away.

[Al-bert]

Having been informed by 'Stan the Man' that I'd never make a SAR pilot as long as my bottom had a hole in it (back in 1972 and computer out never really mastered) I went off to SH disappointed but stoical. I PVR'd during my second tour (didn't we all back then - it was 1978 after all and Bristows were at every happy hour) I suddenly found myself on C Flt 22 flying the Wessex. Since SARTU still had Whirlwinds a very nice Mr R'shaw gave me a cat on the squadron. Persauded to withdraw PVR I then spent the next 22 years flying Wessex and Sea Kings entirely without the benefit of a SARTS/SARTU education. I did use to enjoy wandering down the corridor to chat to them during my final Valley tour though. Hope they have a nice party :ok:

[Walrus75]

Hmmm, wish I'd come across this thread a bit earlier than just now 'cos I might have considered popping down for a pint and maybe see a few old faces. Gotta say it was a major pain in the 'arris having to refit the bloomin' cabin door every time Messers B**l and C***p took a dislike to it and popped it off... which happened way too often!
On the other hand, Geoff Whitehead (I'm led to believe he passed away back in the 90's), one of nicest blokes in uniform I've ever come across.

SARTU g/crew - 81 - 86. Had quite a good time on our side of the house! :)

[Bertie Thruster]

Walrus, thanks for keeping me safe when I went through as a stude in '85. Concur; Geoff Whitehead, a real gentleman.

Went back '89-92 as an instructor. Can't make the party though, never mind.

[Walrus75]

Just doin' my job sir, just doin' my job :ok:
It was (and continues to be tho I'm no longer at SARTU) a pleasure.

[Welshwitch]

Dear Walrus75,

Apologies for intruding on your chat, but re: msg 10/5/12, I would just like to say thanks!

It's now been a few years, but Jeff Whitehead was my Dad and I find it pretty damned wonderful that he's thought of in that way.

Ww

[chopper2004]

How does SARTU winchman course compare to say the USCG Rescue Swimmer school at Mobile, out of interest (apart from jumping in the water of course to pull victims to the winch)

[leopold bloom]

I'll second that, a thorough gentleman and consumate professional. As a student in the 80's it was always a relief to see his name on "my" plaque. Sadly missed.:D

[Al-bert]

I concur - last time I flew with him (I think) was IF at Coltishall. We Wessex bods were on detachment during the SK holiday down south. He was flying, I was safety pilot. I tried, but usually failed, to achieve the same accuracy thereafter! Uncle Geoff :ok:

[Walrus75]

It's now been a few years, but Jeff Whitehead was my Dad and I find it pretty
damned wonderful that he's thought of in that way.
WW - no need for apologies in the slightest, I'm rather pleased that our aimless ramblings have found someone to which they are important and hopefully bring the warmth of pride.
He was a good man, whenever I think back over the highpoints of my RAF career he always pops up. At the time I held, and maintain to this day, the greatest respect for him and hold him in high esteem. He was one of the folk who provided me with a model for civility in how to treat people as I advanced up the rank structure. I was genuinely sorry to hear of his passing.

[silverfox180]

Hi Mum (welshwitch) and everyone else,
Jeff Whitehead was my grandfather and from what I remember of him I can say he was truly a wonderful man. I got the pleasure of hearing numerous Winnie The Pooh stories told to me as a child and remember when he one year decided to dress up as Father Christmas and flew over the back garden with his SARTU pals Christmas morning. He rope descended down to us and handed me and my brother a present. I guess I just wish I had more time to get to know him as an adult. I would certainly love to hear from anyone that worked with him, maybe find out a little more about him and what he was like :)

Speak soon all.

Owen

[chinook240]

Just read Geoff Leeming's http://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/From-Borneo-to-Lockerbie/p/3872/
For anyone from the early SH and SAR days will know Geoff, I knew him from SARTU. Good read with many familiar faces.

[ShyTorque]

Geoff Leeming - there's a name from the past.

Geoff was at SARTU in 1978 when I went through the SAR/Mountain phase from Shawbury, on the Whirlwind. He was responsible for attempting to teach us the theory and use of the Decca Navigator kit. :ok:

Strange thing was, I think I understood it, to some extent. I later found it not so much use on the Puma, at 140 kts it was a bit retrospective, to say the least.