Phantom to be scrapped

[hunty]

Gents

I understand that Mount Pleasant's Phantom XV409 is due to be scrapped in January.

Great shame :{

Hunty

[Courtney Mil]

Think I'll buy it, fly it back to the UK and keep in my garden. Anyone fancy the back seat? I took one down there and don't remember it being too difficult. Oh, hang on. Anyone got a tanker or ten?

[The Helpful Stacker]

Courtney Mil - Can you not bung a few jerricans where the bloke in the back would sit?

In these days of iPods etc surely you don't need someone in the back merely to talk to?;)

[Ant T]

Agreed it is a shame. But.... when I heard it was going because of corrosion I thought they must be exaggerating. Then I went and had a look underneath, and didn't stay there long...... The underside of the wing and around the landing gear area is severely corroded, an inch or more of exfoliation (?) corrosion on what looked pretty structural areas to me.
Rumour was that the nose and cockpit are going to go to the museum in Stanley, but that is not confirmed

[Ken Scott]

an inch or more of exfoliation (?) corrosion on what looked pretty structural areas

The corrosion might not be pretty but as the aircraft only has to stand still in 1G, whereas the original structure was designed to survive a virtually controlled crash onto a flightdeck, is it really necessary to destroy it? Are they really saying that it's going to collapse into a heap of metal in the near future if it's not cut up soon? I know the FIs have a harsh climate but I can't believe that it's in danger of imminent structural failure.

[oldmansquipper]

Don`t scrap it ..the Government is relying on it to fend off any future invaders!:sad:

[cornish-stormrider]

Named as desperation is it??

[DucatiST4]

I'd heard a rumor that it was more to do with the aircraft glorifying war etc and that the MOD/UK Government was trying to distance itself from 1982.

Maybe some Argentinian scrap men will come and take it away :-)

[Ken Scott]

aircraft glorifying war etc

On that basis pretty much the whole base glorifies war although the Phantoms were only ever part of a defensive posture. And without a war, glorified or otherwise, the inhabitants would all be driving on the right & having to speak Spanish....

Maybe they could have a Skyhawk as Gate Guardian in preparation for renaming the place 'Monte Agradable'.

[Phantom Driver]

On that basis pretty much the whole base glorifies war although the Phantoms were only ever part of a defensive posture. And without a war, glorified or otherwise, the inhabitants would all be driving on the right & having to speak Spanish....


Well said.

[Dengue_Dude]

Even Malta had THREE aircraft to defend the island, Faith, Hope and Charity . . .

What's this one called then?

[P6 Driver]

"What's this one called then?"


It has to be BENNY

[izod tester]

the original structure was designed to survive a virtually controlled crash onto a flightdeck

I seem to remember an accident where an F4K hit the deck so hard on Ark Royal that the right hand oleo came through the wing. Can't remember whether the crew subsequently abandoned the ac or it diverted to somewhere like Manston

[mr fish]

first dibs on the clock,

i'll pay postage!!!!

[Dengue_Dude]

'Benny' - of course, but if that's not PC, then we'd have to call it 'STILL'

Oh such memories . . .

[Geehovah]

Sad to see another one go. I logged quite a few hours on that jet on my first tour. I guess it'll join Faith, Hope and Charity in the pit!

I brought XV464 back Courtney so I'm qualified. Not sure I fancy that trip if its rusting away though! We needed 5 VC10s and a C130 to get two jets back

[tarantonight]

'I seem to remember an accident where an F4K hit the deck so hard on Ark Royal that the right hand oleo came through the wing. Can't remember whether the crew subsequently abandoned the ac or it diverted to somewhere like Manston'.

I think the above may be described in Pheonix Squadron by Rowland White. If one and the same, crew stayed with it and clambered out. Pilot went onto SHAR and was down south in 82. TN.

[radar101]

first dibs on the clock,

i'll pay postage!!!!


Can I have the radar dish?

[scarecrow450]

Can I have anything ? worked with it exactly 20 years ago ! :sad::sad:

[Courtney Mil]

Corrosion? Actually, yes, the last time I saw the jet up close it wasn’t in good shape. That said, some of the last ones we had flying (not the Js, I hasten to add) were in pretty poor shape internally.
I even recall the primary display jet one summer suddenly presented with a massive crack in the lower wing-skin from leading to trailing edge wide enough to put your fist in. A short inspection revealed that the main spar (or equivalent – I’m not a rigger, call it a structural member or something) was broken right through. Further inspection showed that the broken ends were severely corroded so it had probably been like that for a very long time. Pale faced display pilot exits stage left.
So this one will do a trip. With jerry cans, obviously.
Courtney

P.S. Any of the following would be too obvious:
Structural member - ooh er, Matron.
Lower wing skin - didn't know the F4 was a bi-plane.
Massive crack - something to do with the occupant of the front cockpit..

[JYKelly]

Here she is in 2004.:ok:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7012/6504361091_96c62a0c19_z.jpghttp://farm8.staticflickr.com/7034/6504360109_007f098eb9_z.jpg

[Courtney Mil]

Nice picutres! And, yep, looks like she'll do a trip. Probe door needs sorting out. Might need some engines, I suspect, but still up for it.

Just checked. The last time I flew 409 was in Cyprus with 29 Sqn on 16 March 1982. Wow. Happy days. See, I've got to bring her back!

[Ant T]

Here she is yesterday.

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/antt10/DSC05590.jpg

And here is some of the corrosion underneath

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/antt10/DSC05583.jpg

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/antt10/DSC05582.jpg

Maybe not quite as bad as I suggested earlier, but still not sure I would like to fly it back to UK, Courtney ;)

[Courtney Mil]

Hmm, I see what you mean, Ant. Maybe a lick of paint first? :uhoh:

[ORAC]

Even Malta had THREE aircraft to defend the island, Faith, Hope and Charity . . .What's this one called then?

4 jets in the Falklands flight were Faith, Hope, Charity and.......... Desperation.

[Mmmmnice]

Shame - I'd prefer to remember her coming up the side of Alice, upside down, while we sat on the pad with the score cards ready - or being overtaken down in Lafonia with only the top of the fin visible from the adjacent 'valley'...............happy days

[Courtney Mil]

I don't think so. 406 was Hope.

I know they will have changed occassionally, but to my recollection, 466 was Desperation and 421 was Faith. Can't remember Charidee.

Courtney

[overstress]

Is there still a wingtip section from one of the other scrapped F4s as a coffee table top (supported by a beautifully constructed stone wall) in the "Goose" bar, if that still exists? It was a bugger getting it up the stairs...

[Wensleydale]

Slightly off thread...

Anyone know what is to become of the 23 Sqn Phantom at Waddington once 8 Sqn have replaced it with a Hunter?

[Green Flash]

Sling it under your S-61 Ant - she'll do a trip! (about as far as Mare Harbour!) :}

[Mach Two]

Courtney, XV419 is in my log book so may have been Charity.

[BEagle]

A little speed tape and she'd soon be as right as rain.....:\

[Courtney Mil]

Yeah. Save some to go round a couple of those hyd pipes too. Fill her up with OX38, if she leaks, it means she full!

[Geehovah]

You beat me to it Beags. Bit o' speed tape and she'll do a trip!

Here she is in happier days with a full load in '77:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/DeeGee/Aircraft/56F4LineB1.jpg

Oh, and BTW, I flew XV497 the Waddo F4 on my first tour too! It featured in the 81 Man Alive programme when it served on 19 Sqn.

[ZH875]

We just don't have any mean looking aircraft anymore. :{

[Courtney Mil]

Now that is a good pic!!! It must have been one of the first with the RWR and ILS antennae on the fin. IIRC they were only just appearing around '76?

And you're right. It was a very mean looking jet. I think it is still the one closest to my heart. I'm so sad.

Courtney

[Impiger]

I last flew her (or in her as a semi-professional directional consultant) on the OCU in 1984.

This may just be a cunning Army plan - goes with renaming RAF Mount P and RAF Ascension to MP Base and AI Base - but I also suspect the dead hand of engineering regulations which require gate guardian aircraft to meet certain standards. Elf 'n safety dontcha know. Clearly what is needed is an inert replica F4 to commemorate the aircraft's contribution to keeping the place British:D

[Courtney Mil]

Impiger et Acer,

I don't recall any navs on the OCU being SEMI-profesional. I think you are doing yourself down!

[flipperthebush]

Well,
Firstly sorry this is so picture heavy.
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa275/roddiedavies/Falklands%202011/IMGP0027.jpg
Having just returned from my winter break in the tropical paridise that we all know as MPA I can report that the latest rumour is that the Jet (Hope) will be scrapped this year (Although OC 1435 Flt was trying to get it a repreive) with the Tail and Nose sections going to the museam in Stanley, I beleive the plan is to put a coffee shop where she currently stands. The reasoning behind scrapping rather than moving is that the structure is in such poor condition that it would probably fall apart if a move was attempted!!! (This is rumour control and not an official line)
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa275/roddiedavies/Falklands%202011/IMGP0038.jpg
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa275/roddiedavies/Falklands%202011/IMGP0039.jpg

Although no need for hyd fluid as she's still leaking and therefore not empty yet!!!!

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa275/roddiedavies/Falklands%202011/20Yearsstillleaking.jpg

GTS solinoid will need a wallop and the plug a quick clean then she should do a trip!!!
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa275/roddiedavies/Falklands%202011/LHLowerAuxAirDoor-1.jpg

But she does still look good at a distance
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa275/roddiedavies/Falklands%202011/IMGP0026.jpg


http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa275/roddiedavies/Falklands%202011/XV409H3-11-11.jpg

So, I'll sign the AF/BF but good luck with getting the leg locks off!!!!
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa275/roddiedavies/Falklands%202011/IMGP0041.jpg

[spookcxi]

Oh woe is I as another of my precious Tooms goes to the knackers yard which must leave us close to single figures now for complete(ish) airframes and after serving this lovely lady on 111(F) for 8 years as a Flight Line Maniac, it leaves me cold that MOD can treat the remains of our Phantom Phleet with such callous disregard. After leaving the squadron I went onto the F4 engine test bed for 5 years at Bruggen and was posted kicking and screaming away from the F4 Phleet to the Tonka fleet. One abiding memory was the Pharewell to the Phantom party at RAF Whatashame and after a great night I was woken bleary eyed in the morning by one of the aircrew on the tigers who drove me to the far side of the airfield and there abandoned in a muddy pit was my squadron. All of 111's F4's being smashed to bits by a gang of workers who looked on amused at the sight of a grubby man sobbing quietly in the rain.

I am currently writing a hefty tome on the F4 from the engineers perspective but I also need to write about fighting and flying the F4 and need the patience of ex F4 aircrew who flew the aircraft during my time which was from 1973 to 1982, but preferably during the years 1975/6 at Leuchars. Anyone interested would they please contact me? Thanks

I have though kept contact with the F4 drivers and GIB's of the Luftwaffe and have spent two separate weeks as the guest of 74 and 71 Geschwader at Hopsten and Wittmund over the intervening years. They are to have their Phinal celebration in June of 2013 and I have been cordially invited by the CO to attend the 40th year celebration of operating the F4, 50 years of ops at Wittmund, the last ever Phlight of an F4 and the introduction somewhat belated into service of the Typhoon and all in one Phabulous week. Details are yet to be promulgated but I am sure if interested parties contacted the CO at Wittmund he would look kindly on ex RAF F4 people. He can either say yes or no and I would bet on the answer being yes as he is impressed with the passion with which we still hold the old girl. See you at Wittmund in 2013?

Yours in anticipation

Spook

[Heathrow Harry]

Dengue wrote

"Even Malta had THREE aircraft to defend the island, Faith, Hope and Charity ".

they actually had at least 4 Gladiators and those names were given after the fighting - UK PR.........

Hkans Aviation page - Gloster Gladiators and Fiat CR.42s over Malta 1940-42 (http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/malta.htm)

reckons there were at least 6......

[glad rag]

When I completed one of my ABDR course [in the hanger at LEU before it went all serious and moved down to Saints] the chieffy at the time finished up by showing us the effect of inter-granular corrosion using the spine panel from an OCU toom.

Now he was a strong bloke OK [finest Lincolnshire tatty farmer stock] but despite the large panel showing no indication of internal damage he TORE the metal apart by judicious use of brute strength and a metal working table edge.

Pretty scary stuff.

No wonder they are concerned about moving it.

[Fedaykin]

I know it is a highly sensitive subject for many when it comes to the scrapping of aircraft on static display but unless it is kept in a humidity and temperature controlled hanger an aircraft will deteriorate. Even static aircraft kept in the open and given constant preventative maintenance will deteriorate. I believe museums who keep aircraft in the open expect to pull the aircraft into a hanger for a paint every fifteen to twenty years or so...if not the chop is often the best solution.

This Phantom has sat out in the open exposed to significant variations in temperature, salt air, sunlight with minimal care. That parts of her might be saved is nice to know and hopefully a new interesting gate guardian can be found...maybe the VC-10 when the type is retired?

If people are interested in the subject of museum static preservation I own a good book by Robert Mikesh called "Restoring Museum Aircraft". It goes into some detail about this kind of matter and the pros and cons of outdoor preservation. It can be found on Amazon and looking the price they want for it I am wondering if I should sell my copy...it cost me £5 from the Duxford gift shop if I remember correctly. Considering a used copy is selling for between $50 - 60 maybe its time for it to go...then again its too good a book to sell it from my collection...choices choices;)

Amazon.com: Restoring Museum Aircraft (9781853108754): Robert Mikesh: Books

[fantom]

Mr Spook in the flesh.http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/minlgw/spook.jpg

[Lightning Mate]

Gentlemen,

This is a hanger. I fail to see how an aeroplane may be kept in one of these.

[Halton Brat]

The Wiggins Aerodyne AV (Airship Variant) was equipped with a Hanger, with which it was designed to launch & recover from the underside of an Airship 'Mother'.

Launching was not a problem, however the unfortunate Aerodyne was blessed with a VNE of even less than that of 'Mother'; there is no record of a succesful recovery at all - once launched, it could not catch up..........

HB