Good deal for Airbus 320 rating in Europe?

[pineteam]

Hello All,

I'm thinking about doing a Rating on the 320 Series next year. I've a South African CPL, MCC (20 hrs) (Frozen ATPL) and 850 Hours. Any good deals for an inital on an A320 type rating??

Thank you!:)

[G-pilot]

i'm going at cockpit4u next month

[Airbus_a321]

Pilot Training Network: Home (http://www.pilottraining-network.de/index.php?id=8&L=1)

GERMANY

[pineteam]

Hello G-Pilot,

I've sent them an E-mail and they replied few hours later! Just below 20 000 Euros if you do 4 touch & go! Not too bad at all!:)

Airbus_321: Sorry your link does not work..:O

[Narrow Runway]

Do your research.

There will be very little in the way of support for you once you've paid for and completed your rating. No matter what you're told.

And that is not me bitching. I flew many times with the MD of C4U - he was the FO, I the Captain. A nicer guy you couldn't meet, but the facts remain that it is a business.

You are a profit centre and there are few jobs for low time FO's, even less for no time FO's.

Don't be fooled by anyone.Only do it if you can AFFORD it.

[JASPA]

your selling your soul :ugh:

[BigNumber]

What utter cobblers; do the rating and you will ultimately find employment.

Do nothing, you will stay unemployed with a skill set becoming rusty by the day. Fact!

I believe the prudent course of action is to look at the rating as a stepping stone. Once rated; apply everywhere - if successful - job done.

If still no joy - then arrange a 500 hour Line Training package, this will certainly land you a job.

It's the only way. Good Luck, and enjoy!!

[G-pilot]

ask around i didn't say it's the best choice it's what i decided and price was good too.
the Airbus_a321 link is working for me try it again!

[G-pilot]

BigNumber i agree 100% with your thoughts.
unfortunately this is what the pilot job market has become off..
we like it or not.. well we don't!!! but this is the reality today :ooh:

[Narrow Runway]

Do you really think that either of your 2 scenarios guarantee you a job?

If so, you're really, really badly mistaken.

I hope you, or mummy and daddy have deep pockets , as you'll need them.

[kip]

In a few years beeing a pilot will no longer be a job, just an expensive hobbie for the golden boys!! :{

The beancounters must love you!!

[BigNumber]

Narrow Runway,

Yes I believe exactly that.

Looking ahead, I further believe that a MEP/IR with some FI time will prove utterly useless.

What would you suggest these folks do? Just wander off into the night and spoil the crew bus?

[Narrow Runway]

Well, then you're a bit naive I'm afraid.

Plenty of people have paid for ratings, even paid for line training and not got full time work for one reason or another.

The company that I worked for until recently DID sometimes take guys with a blank A320 rating, having only done the TR course and base training. However, let me tell you candidly that the UK candidates were, and are, still a LONG way down the pecking order behind locals in the same position. Or even behind locals without ratings.

That scenario will never change. Can you name a UK airline who takes candidates with ZERO hours on type? Unless you've bought an expensive rating from an "approved" supplier, or been fortunate enough to pass the BA selection process. I can't think of anyone who takes zero hours guys who've done their own rating at, for instance, C4U.

I can think of lots of Chinese, Eastern European, Middle East and Far East carriers, but not a single UK one.

You have absolutely no facts to base your assertions on.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[corporate-pilot]

We recently advertised for a new FO and didn't have many applicants, only one person on here contacted me about it. It's a decent salary, we get well looked after, it has good benefits and there is lots of flying (5 aircraft), we also have pretty good job security as the company is doing very very well.

I appreciate there are many unfortunate souls out there who have put in many many hours of research into different operators and sending out tailor made letters and CV's and not getting anywhere, but I think they are the "silent few".

To go and spend 20k on a type rating with no interview lined up for an operator of the type is quite remarkable.

I know our boss would be gobsmacked if he interviewed someone who had just paid 20k on an Airbus type rating just as a bit of "speculation".

PS we currently have no vacancies, the point I'm making is that when we were advertising not many people saw the advert.

[magicmick]

Hi corporate pilot,

I appreciate that the company you work for are no longer recruiting, can you please indicate where and when the ad that received such a poor response was placed.

[corporate-pilot]

Captain and FO positions were on the company website for a number of weeks. It may also have been on an agencies site but I couldn't be certain, I know we've used them in the past but I am not sure whether that was the case this time.

We had more people apply for the Captains role than that of the FO. Make of that what you will. (requirements for FO's were frozen ATPL, 200 hours and MCC)

I know there are many resourceful new pilots out there, this isn't aimed at them, but when I come on here there seems no end of lazy ones who would rather throw 20k at the problem rather than actually sitting down and developing a strategy. It's this culture of "chucking money at the problem" which I find quite remarkable.

This is just my opinion of course.

[magicmick]

Hi corporate pilot,

Many thanks for the information, I try to keep a good watch on the recruitment area of as many operators websites as possible but I guess that I missed the one for the company that you work for. However it is refreshing to note that there are operators out there that are willing to give low hours ladies and gents a chance, I would be interested to know which company you work for and I’ll add the website to my list, if you don’t want to post on open forum then drop me a PM. If you’d rather conserve your anonymity and reserve the right to remain silent then that’s fine.

We’re probably drifting way off the topic of this thread right now but I do agree that there are many individuals who forego a concerted job search and go straight to P2F, equally I guess that there are many who get frustrated with continually chasing jobs with no success and end up falling into P2F as their only perceived escape route.

Good luck and sincere best wishes to you all whichever group you fall into.

[KAG]

Pineteam: I've a South African CPL, MCC (20 hrs) (Frozen ATPL) and 850 Hours.

Continue to build up your experience and you might soon have enough experience to fly a Cessna Caravan.

When you'll have a few thousands hour of real flying you might think about an airliner. Airbus are for real pilots who have real experience, because this airplane won't teach you how to fly.
850 that's really not enough.

[BUGS/BEARINGS/BOXES]

Just below 20 000 Euros if you do 4 touch & go!

Hold the phone, you need 6 touch and go's including 2 full stops to gain the rating in EASA land. How much more for the rest? :confused:

And which airline in their right mind would take on A320 'blind rated' pilots over which the airline had no say or oversight in he training?? You can bet your bottom dollar you won't receive any low vis qualification what so ever, meaning an airline has to invest in you in any case, and let's guess, the bare minimum number of sims before first shot at LST. So 7? Training slots and the LST, oh yeah, the requirement to join the course must be a big cheque right? No assessment (well, meaningful one) to see if you are suitable? So you bin a sim or the LST, hey presto, you get charged for yet another remedial trg slot then pay for another LST (all of which you already paid for out of your cheque, but the company charges you again in any case). Quite different to any airline that holds a TRTO!

As corporate-pilot says, throwing money at a problem won't make it go away. This obsession with ' I must be in the 320/737 or it's all been a waste of time and I will never get to fly long haul'' mentality shows that perhaps some here really were blinkered by glossy brochures. The 320 flies you, why bother being a pilot at all?:} now the caravan or dash or RJ100, and corporate types are good pilot makers!

[BigNumber]

"I can't think of anyone who takes zero hours guys who've done their own rating at, for instance, C4U.

I can think of lots of Chinese, Eastern European, Middle East and Far East carriers, but not a single UK one.

You have absolutely no facts to base your assertions on."

Look again; at no point did I suggest that anyone would land a UK job straight out of a TRTO.

I did suggest that if one invests in a type rating, and if still unsuccessful, a period of Line Training, a job WILL ultimately be secured. To wit, a stepping stone approach.

Clearly, which ever way this is wrapped, a punter will need to pack his bags for a period of time out of UK.

Reading your post (copied above), it might appear that you agree with me? Once your assumption of UK is removed.

(The small Biz Jet I fly is not UK registered or based either.)

[Narrow Runway]

Big Number,

This is why our industry has become so ridiculously under qualified.

Have you ever flown a 737 or A320? Would you know what the REAL likelihood is of employment ANYWHERE in the world with no time on type, outside of your own little corporate bubble?

Unlike you, I've flown quite a few types, including A320, 330 and 340 as well as B757 and a BIG corporate aircraft. I've flown as an FO and as Captain - which for the avoidance of doubt is what I am now - experienced, and a Captain.

I've even done a short spell in management. But that's another tale.

What is never certain is what is around the corner. But, to suggest that by buying a type rating and/line training you'll get a job is just plain wrong. And that's what is wrong with our industry - a cut corners mentality. Why should you pay to fly?

Good luck in joining the big leagues. But there are no short cuts, there may be ways of bankrupting yourself, but that is no shortcut.

[BigNumber]

Hi N.R,

Just went tech, (FADEC prob); so home tonight instead of flying my little Jet.:) Away Sunday now.

Yes, you are quite correct; I have never flown either a 737 or A320. Never will..........cant afford to. I have all the responsibilities of life. Paying to fly, or even low pay, is not an attractive option.

And yes, you are also quite correct, my cosy corporate bubble is a Private Op, directly employed by a private owner.

Mercifully, I will not be joining the Big Leagues but, for those with the money to hand, buying 500 or 1000 hours on type is perhaps the only way ahead. Indeed, look at adverts running on pprune. The need is identified and met. Some airlines seem to welcome this new income stream. I know that my family and I appreciate the subsidized Air Fares.

Back to the debate; what is the remaining option? Sit looking at an impressive blue beer mat; boasting some MEP time!!!! Maybe get an FI rating? Utter cobblers.

IMHO. Hours on type is now the only way. That or just give up and admit that all the time effort and money has been flushed down the obvious.

By way of background, and to back my original assertion, I operate regularly into CMN and the chaps who paid up to RAM seem to be doing okay. Most are off to Qatar for a healthy sum. Good luck to them.

Show me any job available to some weaner armed with a MEP/IR and a winning smile. Nothing is there? Best call Daddy again then!

Finally,

Best wishes for Xmas:)

[Narrow Runway]

Hi B N,

That's the rub though isn't it? If more people had sat on their hands and didn't subsidise second rate airlines by paying to fly, the issue would probably disappear of its own volition....or would never gave arisen all those years ago.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy which those with cash to burn or stupid bank managers have perpetuated.

Anyway, the genie is out of the bottle. It won't be put back any time soon.

Like you, I'm on a private aircraft - type rating paid for by the corporation. I'd never go back to airlines unless there was no other way.

Happy Xmas too.

[pineteam]

Hello,

Well I have now 1800+ hours including 75O hrs on the Caravan and 650hrs on twin piston ( C402/1 C 421 ans BE 58/55).

I did not do the Airbus rating yet but still thinking of doing it. I beleive now I've done enough to move on. Didn't I?
Yes it's sad that we have to pay for a rating, but it seems to be the new standard today. I'm hoping to get a job on ATR sometimes this year tho, so hopefully no rating to pay.:}

[RedBullGaveMeWings]

What about Aerojob in Czech Republic? They don't look so expensive...