Cirrus and Sunland: Temporarily Suspension of Operations

[Jabawocky]

I was told this evening that the Sunland and Cirrus Aust operations at YBAF have closed.

Did I miss something or is this all news of the day?

Another sad hit to industry in Oz if true.

It would be nice to be wrong so I could delete the thread.

[Sunland Aviation]

Hi Jabawocky.
I'm pleased to say Sunland and Cirrus are still there at YBAF!.
(In fact, one of our Students achieved their CPL yesterday and another 3 are booked in the next 2 weeks!. :-) . Congratulations. )
However, due to the sudden passing of our Chief Pilot (Tom Christopher), we can not at this time operate until another Chief Pilot (and CFI) is appointed.
Being so sudden, we do not have anohter candidate at this time.
In the meantime, our students (and other operations) are currently being accomodated under the supervision of Flight One - also at YBAF.
Flight One has been generous in their support for Sunland and Cirrus while we go through this sad period.
On another note; Tom's Funeral is scheduled for next week.
Anyone who knew Tom is welcome to email me for details.
Moreover, those who have already emailed me will get a reply over the weekend.
My email is;
[email protected]
(great to see the good ol' GA rumour mill is still working its magic).

[Jabawocky]

Thank heavens for hat Steve, and welcome to pprune land, where the truth flows for free, and the rumors even more so!

I now see where the story was based upon, sad to hear about your CP. here is a case of where our regs need to be more user oriented. Under such circumstances Casa should be able to grant you a period of time to operate, or allow you to operate with another CP or a CASA appointed one, or approved, so hat your business is not shut down. It's a triple hit, lost a friend and employee, lost business and money, and have to find a CP poste haste, which is never a good way to hire anyone let alone the CP.

I will see if I can change the thread topic. Glad to hear you have not been another victim of the YBAF GA curse:ok:

[Sunland Aviation]

Thanks so much for your kind words. I appreciate it.

I also appreciate the ongoing support of my Staff and Students.

Brian, Jason and Gary have been great in their concern for the Student's welfare and the future of the Company.

Colleagues and Peers have been great too. Lucas and staff at Flight One have been great with their immediate offer of support.

With regard to CASA; In this Country, we operate under an unnessesary set of rules that actually do not make our flying any safer.

We operate under a false illusion that we do it better and safer than the rest of the world. In fact our safety statistics here are really no better than any other advanced Nation (and we have better weather!).

Tom's passing (unknown at the time) did not suddenly make Sunland unsafe. Until we actually knew about Tom, my Instructors continued to operate professionally and safely as per our OM and SOP.

In unforseen cases, the ability to have a temporary solution instantly approved would be great.

I will add to this by saying I have received kind messages and concern from Individuals at CASA. My comments are not about FOIs etc. - rather the draconian rules they have to work with....

Safe flying.

[Jabawocky]

Exactly, they should however have an Instrument available to them to roll out at times like this, with certain sensible conditions, and offer it to you. You should not have to even ask for it, as soon as you alert them to the problem they automatically offer it to you.

Otherwise you would have to apply for it and take 6 months to get the instrument approved!:sad:

[Stan van de Wiel]

Sunland commiserations with the passing of your CP. CFI

we operate under an unnessesary set of rules that actually do not make our flying any safer.

In more advanced countries the C.P. authority is a rating on the licence of the person, it has little to do with the AOC holder where an AOC is required that is! The same for a Chief Flying Instructor a Rating. This allows for the company to appoint a Locum at a minutes notice.

Good thing you are able to continue operating but how have you managed to by pass the issue of "borrowed AOC" which is allegedly a major safety obstacle.

As an example, "Captain's Choice" tours don't seem to regard this as an obstacle, so have you used them as the example?

[megle2]

And by coincidence another rumor that Flight One is in the process of changing CFI's.

[Sunland Aviation]

Hi Aiglet

Thanks a lot for your kind words.

With regard to our continued operations;

Sunland is not currently operating due to Tom's passing but it's doors are well and truely open.

Our students are temporary students with Flight One. Our Instructors have been individually checked and inducted by Flight One IAW their OM and SOP.

Therefore, the current status is not what could be described as a 'borrowed' AOC. Moreover, Flight One is also YBAF based and not a distant school owned by a 'mate'.

All of the above was discussed with and agreed to with CASA beforehand.

The immediate objective is to ensure our Students are not delayed or disadvantaged rather than purely commercial. - We have a few students really close to CPL and it would be tragic if their hard work was wasted.

Non-critical operations such as TIFs etc. have been delayed.

With regard to the current regs in this country; You are correct. For example in New Zealand - The Auckland Aero Club once had the equiv. of a grade 2 Instructor as their CP/CFI!. That does not in any way belittle the way "S" ran AAC Ops at Ardmore. She was very professional in every way when I visited.

At least the NZ CAA recognises the role of CP/CFI is largely administrative.

In the USA, I knew of a CP who had not flown for years due to medical, however, the FAA deemed him to be acceptable!.

Further examples of FAA common sense:

- No IFR renewals. Pilot responsibility to stay current.
- Piston engine Cirrus SR22 is allowed to operate Part 135 IFR Charter.

Is it statistically safer to fly in Australia or the USA?.

Does 8-12 weeks processing time and $1500 to add a new type to an AOC make us a safer Country than NZ or USA or Canada?.

IF our current rules made Australia leaps and bounds safer than the rest of the world then I would be an enthusiastic supporter of our draconian rules and regs.

Cheers


*** Thanks to the many people who have sent emails of support. ***

[Up-into-the-air]

Kind regard to your CFI's family, both personal and aviation.

Unfortunately it is not only the regs which need changing, but also the method of interpretation by the FOI's and direction by the legal CASA overlords.

Borrowing an AOC is cergtainly illegal - the question is, where does this sad occurrence legally leave the students??

The issue that is raised by this and as you so elegangtly put the overseas comparison is to immediately stop operations here in AUS, as the CASA process is extremely convoluted and the person chosen has still to meet the CASA bandwagon.

Please raise the issues across the entire aviation community as it affects us all..

Good luck in getting going again and I hope thagt it is not too hard on you financially and the school can in fact continue.

[Seagull V]

Hopefully the Proposed CASR Part 141 will overcome some of the problems of continued operation following the loss, or even absence on leave, of key personnell.
See the draft consultation documents at Civil Aviation Safety Authority - CASR Part 141 - Flight training operators (http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:PWA::pc=PARTS141)
This has been a long time coming. Hopefully it will see the light of day ... soon.

[JESSIE ELIZABETH]

While I understand the difficulty with continued operations without a chief pilot/CFI; just for clarity, this is not to be confused with the borrowed AOC conditions. These conditions as stated under CAO 82.0, only apply to RPT and/or charter operations.i.e. Not applicable to Aerial Work (flying School) Ops. See attached extract.


Civil Aviation Order 82.0
3 Conditions relating to “borrowed” certificates

3.1 Each certificate authorising charter or regular public transport operations is subject to the condition that its holder (“the AOC holder”) must not, without the prior written approval of CASA, enter into an arrangement with a person whose certificate is suspended or cancelled (“the other person”) under which the AOC holder agrees:
(a) to use, in any operation covered by the AOC holder’s certificate, any aircraft that the other person was authorised to operate under the certificate that is suspended or cancelled; or
(b) to use, in connection with any operation covered by the AOC holder’s certificate, any person employed or engaged by, or otherwise working for, the other person in connection with any operation covered by the certificate that is suspended or cancelled; or
(c) to conduct any operation, or any part of an operation, that the other person intended to conduct under the certificate that is suspended or cancelled.
3.2 Each certificate authorising charter or regular public transport operations is subject to the condition that its holder (“the AOC holder”) must not, without the prior written approval of CASA, enter into an arrangement with a person whose certificate has been varied (“the other person”), under which the AOC holder agrees:
(a) to use, in any operation covered by the AOC holder’s certificate, any aircraft that the other person:
(i) was, immediately before the variation, authorised to operate under the other person’s certificate; but
(ii) is no longer authorised to operate under the certificate as varied; or
(b) to use, in connection with any operation covered by the AOC holder’s certificate, any person employed or engaged by, or otherwise working for, the other person in connection with any operation that the other person:
(i) was, immediately before the variation, authorised to conduct under the other person’s certificate; but
(ii) is no longer authorised to conduct under the certificate as varied; or
(c) to conduct any operation, or any part of an operation that the other person:
(i) intended to conduct under the other person’s certificate as it had effect immediately before the variation; but
(ii) is no longer authorised to conduct under the certificate as varied.
3.3 Each certificate authorising charter or regular public transport operations is subject to the condition that its holder (“the AOC holder”) must not, without the prior written approval of CASA, enter into an arrangement with a person whose application for a certificate is still pending (“the other person”) under which the AOC holder agrees:
(a) to use, in any operation covered by the AOC holder’s certificate, any aircraft proposed to be covered by the certificate sought; or
(b) to use, in connection with any operation covered by the AOC holder’s certificate, any person proposed to be employed or engaged by the other person in connection with any operation proposed to be covered by the certificate sought; or
(c) to conduct any operation, or any part of an operation, proposed to be covered by the certificate sought

[Jabawocky]

2 months later.........and I see a whole stack of aircraft up for "Tender Sale" and not by the operator.

I hate dredging this thread back up but it does not look good. Does this mean that the fragile GA business world has claimed another victim? Another nail in the YBAF coffin.

Sad day if its the case.:sad:

[mates rates]

I notice they are the Sunland training aircraft.Maybe Steve has another plan in mind to keep the operation going.

[Milnes]

Yes have died very much. Cirrus parts have gone to Melbourne (Blue Demon)
Bought a SR20 G2 v much used. Still waiting for my tax invoice. No one answering phone calls.