UK Suspends CFE Treaty Agreement

[racedo]

Last year's SDSR allowed for every imaginable eventuality.

Apart from the Bleeding obvious which everyone sees.

[ORAC]

UK halts Russian military agreement (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-halts-russian-military-agreement-6267875.html)

The UK will stop sharing military information with Russia under an international convention following Moscow's failure to co-operate, the Government has announced.

The Russians suspended compliance with the Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe (CFE) in December 2007. The treaty places limits on the build-up of troops, tanks, artillery and other non-nuclear forces from the Atlantic to the Ural Mountains.

Europe Minister David Lidington said despite "considerable efforts to engage the Russian Federation" talks had broken down. The decision was formally announced at a meeting in Vienna on Tuesday and Mr Lidington's statement to Parliament follows the United States' declaration it would halt co-operation with Russia.

In a written Commons statement Mr Lidington said: "Since December 2007, we have continued to fulfil our CFE Treaty obligations, and attempted to exercise our Treaty rights. We, our North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (Nato) allies and other States Parties to the Treaty have also made considerable efforts to engage the Russian Federation in negotiations aimed at finding a mutually acceptable resolution, but without success."

He said a situation where 29 nations "fulfilled their Treaty obligations and one did not" could not continue indefinitely. "As a result, alongside a number of CFE Treaty signatories, the United Kingdom announced that for as long as the Russian Federation fails to fulfil its obligations towards the United Kingdom under the CFE Treaty, we will cease fulfilment of our key obligations towards the Russian Federation."

Mr Lidington said the UK would no longer provide information to the Russians in the annual data exchange that takes place under the terms of the Treaty on December 15. Also, the UK will not provide notifications to Russia under the terms of the CFE or accept inspections requested by them.

Mr Lidington said: "The United Kingdom remains committed to conventional arms control in Europe and will continue to fulfil our Treaty obligations with respect to all other states parties to the CFE Treaty. We will also continue to abide by and respect the numerical limitations on conventional armaments and equipment established by the Treaty. We remain open to negotiations with the Russian Federation should they demonstrate a willingness to address constructively the key issues which are currently preventing progress."

The move represents a further strain in relations between Moscow and the West.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev warned yesterday that he could deploy missiles to target a proposed US missile shield based in Europe. "The United States and its Nato partners as of now aren't going to take our concerns about the European missile defence into account," Mr Medvedev said.

He warned that Russia would deploy short-range Iskander missiles in its westernmost region, the Kaliningrad exclave bordering Poland.

PA

[taxydual]

So, only 4 years for HMG to react.

I better check the mice in my loft haven't been at my ACTIVE EDGE kit.

[Melchett01]

You'd better get a shift on - I think by Dec 15 they mean in 2 weeks not 4 years. You know how slow the stores system can be ...

[Willard Whyte]

I don't know what all the fuss is about.

Last year's SDSR allowed for every imaginable eventuality.

[taxydual]

What the hell is going on with posting display?

Responses to posts are appearing before posts appear to need responding to..... If you see what I mean.

It's a Two Ronnies sketch all over again!

Unless that last glass of red had more of a kick in it than I thought....Hic


Ahh

Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

Please push the back button and reload the previous window.

A glitch

[NutLoose]

I do wonder what the Russians are going to do for entertainment now, I can see the kremlins internal emails...


Boris, ve have just received the latest updates from ze UK, they say they have spent Many billions of roubles converting metal ingots into state of the past maritime aircraft and back into metal ingots...

Boris, me again, latest update, ze British have spent more billions of roubles modernising their Harrier fleets, so they can be fed seemlessly into the US Marines spares system.



:E

[Jollygreengiant64]

On the flip side, another cold war could sort out that global warming thing :}.

Seriously, does DC really believe this even shows up on Russian radar? Never mind Ghost Hawk and Stealth Hawk... Britain is a whole other kind of invisible these days.

[GreenKnight121]

You'd better get a shift on - I think by Dec 15 they mean in 2 weeks not 4 years. You know how slow the stores system can be ...


He is referring to the time between Russia's cessation of cooperation with CFE and the UK (and US) decision to also suspend activities under that treaty.

Note the following:
The Russians suspended compliance with the Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe (CFE) in December 2007.

And the date of the UK response: Friday 25 November 2011




The decision was formally announced at a meeting in Vienna on Tuesday and Mr Lidington's statement to Parliament follows the United States' declaration it would halt co-operation with Russia.

In a written Commons statement Mr Lidington said: "Since December 2007, we have continued to fulfil our CFE Treaty obligations, and attempted to exercise our Treaty rights.


"We, our North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (Nato) allies and other States Parties to the Treaty have also made considerable efforts to engage the Russian Federation in negotiations aimed at finding a mutually acceptable resolution, but without success."


He said a situation where 29 nations "fulfilled their Treaty obligations and one did not" could not continue indefinitely.


"As a result, alongside a number of CFE Treaty signatories, the United Kingdom announced that for as long as the Russian Federation fails to fulfil its obligations towards the United Kingdom under the CFE Treaty, we will cease fulfilment of our key obligations towards the Russian Federation."


Mr Lidington said the UK would no longer provide information to the Russians in the annual data exchange that takes place under the terms of the Treaty on December 15.

[Lima Juliet]

Nearly died in a Lada Riva once!

So after reading the Exchange and Mart did he go back to "What range is Skyflash Missile?"? :p

LJ

[Lima Juliet]

Sorry, Pprune Time Machine again!

Reposted from post #10!

PN

Nearly died in a Lada Riva once!

So after reading the Exchange and Mart did he go back to "What range is Skyflash Missile?"?

LJ

[Lima Juliet]

Sorry

Please read post 10 and 11 that I posted at 2255hrs GMT - Pprune has a ghost in the machine!

[Lima Juliet]

I posted this on Saturday night and it appears as posted on Saturday afternoon - WTF!!

[Pontius Navigator]

The treaty places limits on the build-up of troops, tanks, artillery and other non-nuclear forces from the Atlantic to the Ural Mountains.

Probably because we can't assemble a force that exceeds the trigger value.

[Lima Juliet]

So is that the end of JACIG and their friend Rebecca? ;)

[Pontius Navigator]

Leon, RTFA, we will cease fulfilment of our key obligations towards the Russian Federation.

I think Rebecca will continue to receive visitors at all hours from various exotic places.

[SirToppamHat]

JACIG's not quite gone yet as there are other things they get involved in (Vienna Document 99, Open Skies and a range of other related activities).

It might look like the politicians have been slow to react, but the beancounters wasted no time in reducing the size of JACIG from about 62 in 2007 down to (ISTR) about 19 by the end of next year.

It has been clear to anyone involved in Arms Control for some years that the CFE Treaty in its original guise had become irrelevant since the countries involved reducted their holdings of conventional weapons to levels way below those required by the Treaty, a position not helped by countries changing sides! The Russians have always had issues with other aspects (flanks etc) and had been trying to get the west to revisit the Treaty for several years prior to 2007. It was no surprise when the Russians suspended in 2007, amidst claims that there was no provision for such action: the Treaty was (and I believe still is) 'legally binding' on all signatories. What the UK seems to have done now is to follow the precedent set by the Russians and presumably accept that the Russians were right to do it first.

There will still be a data exchange each year, for the VD99 if not the CFE, but I guess we can start removing the stickers found on many bases with CFE on them indicating doors wider than 2m.

I wondered at first what our American friends would have thought of this action, but to be honest, I would be a bit surprised if they weren't in on it.

STH

[Lima Juliet]

PN

I believe that a lot of Rebecca's old exotic friends are in our Organisation these days anyway? The others that aren't don't play nice with regards to CFE so what's the point?

LJ

[Pontius Navigator]

Leon, had coffee once with a major for Kyrgyzstan however he was more interested in the motoring section of Exchange and Mart looking for Lada spares.

[GreenKnight121]

I wondered at first what our American friends would have thought of this action, but to be honest, I would be a bit surprised if they weren't in on it.

STH

STH, please note the line in the article that explains this:
The decision was formally announced at a meeting in Vienna on Tuesday and Mr Lidington's statement to Parliament follows the United States' declaration it would halt co-operation with Russia.

Yep... the UK only moved after the US had already done so!

[SirToppamHat]

Green_Knight26

I am not going to get into semantics, but I hadn't seen the original info about the US, and read the article's interpretation as a threat to suspend rather than that they would.

In this Treaty the western group of nations is treated as a block and often acts as such, but the UK, in AC generally, tends to want to act as an 'honest broker'.

I guess this Treaty will now wither on the vine.

STH

[ORAC]

I am not going to get into semantics, but I hadn't seen the original info about the US, and read the article's interpretation as a threat to suspend rather than that they would. It would have taken about 10 seconds to check...... :hmm:

U.S. to stop sharing data with Russia under arms pact (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/23/us-usa-russia-treaty-idUSTRE7AM0B120111123)

WASHINGTON | Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:17pm EST

(Reuters) - The United States said on Tuesday it will stop sharing data with Russia under a treaty that limits conventional forces in Europe, saying it was doing so four years after Moscow halted its participation in the pact. The 1990 Treaty on Conventional Forces in Europe (CFE) limits the number of battle tanks, heavy artillery, combat aircraft and attack helicopters deployed and stored between the Atlantic and Russia's Ural mountains.

In announcing the decision, State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said the United States still hoped to persuade Russia to come back to the treaty but Washington was no longer willing to share information without Moscow reciprocating. Former President Vladimir Putin suspended Russia's participation in the treaty in 2007.

"What this means specifically is that the U.S. will not accept Russian inspections of our bases under the CFE, and we will also not provide Russia with the annual notifications and military data called for in the treaty," Nuland said.

She said the United States expected most, if not all, U.S. and NATO allies in the 30-nation agreement to do the same. However, she stressed that the United States had not given up on the treaty entirely. She said Washington would continue to share data with other nations in the treaty and hoped that Russia would ultimately return to the agreement.

"We are not giving up on conventional arms control nor are we giving up on the possibility of saving and modernizing the Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty," she said. "We are simply saying that at this stage, after four years of non-Russian implementation ... we think that it's important to take some countermeasures vis-a-vis Russia."...............

[SirToppamHat]

Terribly sorry ORAC. I will try and do better next time.

STH