View Full Version : Looking for some Advice on moving?
20th Nov 2011, 19:50
I am from Canada and just starting out in my aviation career, this is my first job starting out on a small passenger service flying a King Air 100. I have a plan to move and work in Europe somewhere, somewhere hopefully warmer with more sandy beaches etc.
Now before you say unless u have the right to work here forget it/stay there the economy isn't the hottest etc, hear me out.
I have a plan/time frame of 5-7 years to build experience, make contacts , even apply for immigration etc. Its a broad plan just looking for advice to fill in the specifics.
I've known people in other professions who have moved to countries like France and Germany, me and my family were immigrants to Canada at one point in our life. So why cant I do it.
So if anyone knows anybody/have any advice or anything helpful, please post.
P.S I am working on my Spanish.
21st Nov 2011, 10:40
I am from North America and I emigrated to southern Europe, right on the beach. I meet Canadians and Americans almost daily who are living here, all with different backgrounds. What did you want to know specifically?
What is your 5-7 year plan? Your post was quite broad, so some specifics will help narrow down some answers.
Moving to Europe is hard if you don't have an EU passport or the way of geting a working permit. With little variations in every country, to get a working permit is not that easy, some countries can grant it with a job offer, in aviation there are not job offers for that, you can try with another activity until you get the work permit, but that activity can not have people unemployed in order to give a working permit to a foreigner, you have 27 countries plus the countries with agreements with EU, Switzerland, Norway, Iceland, and some more, wich are not EU but join same policies, just you have to notice that Spain for example has 22% unemployment, veeeeeery hard to get a job!!!!
If you have european background, check it in the embassy of the country/s of your ancestors, if you have the right, can take a little while, 2 or 3 years, but at the end you will have an EU passport, with the right to live in all 27 EU countries plus the others, which are not EU but have agreements, Switzerland, Norway, Iceland, Monaco, San Marino, Andorra, and some more. If you don't have an EU passport, but you get a working permit, "you can only work and recide in the country which gave you the permit", 90% of the aviation companies ask for an EU passport without restrictions, for example Romania and Bulgaria have lots of restrictions.
After you solve this if you want to work as a pilot in Europe, you need an EASA licence, you have to enroll in an FTO for a six month modular course for your EASA-CPL, after this six month course you have the right to give the 14 theory exams, 1 by one, when you finish with this 14 you can go for your CPL test, you can not go first for IR-ME test because you don't have any EASA licence to endorse them, so first CPL, then IR-ME, or all together, CPL course 25 hs. plus exam, IR-ME 11 hs. plus exam, because you give first CPL you will already have a licence so you have 5 hours credit for the IR. Also, most of the companies ask for an MCC course, up to now you already spended around 35000€, if you have to add a TR, 15000€ and up.
Conclusion, if you can't have an EU passport, 98% chances of failure in the aviation industrie, if you have an EU passport and you would like to get the chance to work as pilot, 35000€ and 75% of failure.
I was in Canada working few years, just STAY there, and go to Florida or any caribean country for sand and sun.
But, always check out if you can have an EU passport, it doesn't cost you money, just a check at the embassy of the country of your grand parents, this crisis will not last forever, and may be in 5 years and with 2000 hours flown, if you hold an EU passport, you can have the job very easy, but always need an EASA licence, that you can also do without even a work permit, you only need money and all your papers certified with "The Hague" stamp.
I hope this can help you. Ask any doubt.:ok:
21st Nov 2011, 21:19
but at the end you will have an EU passport, with the right to live in all 27 EU countries plus the others, which are not EU but have agreements, Switzerland, Norway, Iceland, Monaco, San Marino, Andorra, and some more
Not 100% correct. You can not live and work in Monaco, San Marino, or Andorra without a work permit, even with a an EU passport. I think Italians can live in San Marino, but I don´t know the ins and outs. Many of the postage stamp countries are not included in the EEC and there is not the same freedom of movement.
CPL course 25 hs. plus exam, IR-ME 11 hs. plus exam, because you give first CPL you will already have a licence so you have 5 hours credit for the IR. Also, most of the companies ask for an MCC course, up to now you already spended around 35000€, if you have to add a TR, 15000€ and up.
Also not correct. CPL conversions will only require training as required, so there are no minimum hours in the course required to complete if you hold an ICAO CPL. For the IR conversion, you must complete 15 hours of instrument training in Europe (up to 10 can be completed in the simulator). You can expect a full JAA CPL/IRME conversion + MCC to cost well over €10,000. There are lots of threads on this.
to get a working permit is not that easy, some countries can grant it with a job offer, in aviation there are not job offers for that
Ryanair sponsored many foreign 737NG rated captains in the past, and Aer Arann also had a sponsor deal going for ATR typed pilots. So, sometimes they exist, but don´t hold your breath. Way more pilots than jobs.
OAD is correct in that not having a European passport will restrict your options greatly. Many airlines (but not all) are requiring an EU or EEC unrestricted passport.
What is not correct?, I think you are the one who is wrong.
In every EU country or with an agreement with EU you always need a work permit, if you have for example a German passport and you want to work en UK or Spain or any EU you must go to the police station or immigration office to get the piece of paper, the same is with all the countries which are not EU but have agreements, Iceland, Norway, Andorra, San Marino, and some more.
The main advantage of having an EU passport or norwegian, andorrean, icelandic, etc., is that the permit is always granted, more or less paperwork but granted at the end.
About CPL, unless you have 1500 hs. and some more requirements, you always need training and theory course before you do the practical exams, and because the EASA authority can not endorsed an IR or whatever on the ICAO licence, you have to do first the exam for CPL in order to have a licence to endorse IR-ME, and if you have CPL issued before you go for IR and ME course you can have a credit of 5 hours, so you do only 11 hours of IR flying together with multiengine, read this http://easa.europa.eu/certification/flight-standards/doc/oeb-supporting-documents/fcl-ops/JAR-FCL-1.pdf
You said that Ryanair sponsored for "captains", this guy looking for advice is just starting, he can't be a captain.
If you don't know all the "ins and outs", please don't comment just to appear you know more, here the only thing valid is what the law says, about immigration, conversions, etc..
Canadian, in my opinion, stay in Canada, you have such a great country, in all meanings, don't waste your time and money in this stupid system and this stupid industry that is Europe and european aviation, as I said if you can't have an EU or some other passport with agreement with EU, all trainings and movements you will do will be for nothing, because without work permit there is no job, for pilots, construction workers, mechanics, or whatever profession, if you get an sponsor he can sponsor you only in the country of the company. And think that you can have a passport, money for the licence conversion, every thing is smooth and perfect, then you have to deal with tons of idiots paying for flying, and then you will wish to go back to Canada.
22nd Nov 2011, 19:22
I am correct, you are still wrong.
the same is with all the countries which are not EU but have agreements, Iceland, Norway, Andorra, San Marino, and some more.
The main advantage of having an EU passport or norwegian, andorrean, icelandic, etc.,You are correct about Iceland and Norway, but you are wrong about Andorra, San Marino, and Monaco (you previously mentioned). Andorra, San Marino, and Monaco are not part of the EU, nor are they part of the EEC/EEA. They do not have agreements to allow EU citizens to live and work. You can visit for 90 days with an EU passport. Look it up. I know what I am talking about. The only thing that I ¨don´t know the ins and outs¨ of is Italians living in San Marino. But as a Spanish citizen, or UK citizen, and many other EU citizens, they can not live and work in San Marino. Look it up. I suggest you do your research and don´t comment unless you know what you´re talking about, like I do.
About CPL, unless you have 1500 hs. and some more requirements, you always need training and theory course before you do the practical exams, Not correct again. If you hold an ICAO non-JAR CPL, there are no flight training minimums for a JAA CPL. You have to satisfy the requirements for license issue and pass the checkride, but there are no flight time requirements. Have you done a non-JAA to JAA conversion for a CPL? Because I have, and I know what I´m talking about. I suggest you read JAR-FCL 1.
this guy looking for advice is just starting, he can't be a captain.
He has a 5 to 7 year plan and he already has a flying job. He might be a captain.
I know what the law says, and make sure you provide correct information, not incorrect information.
OAD, don´t be so negative. People come here for advice and for help, not to be shot down by people like you. They also come here looking for correct information, not misinformation.
By the way, I also find Canada quite lovely, but I much prefer living in Europe.
To the OP, feel free to PM me about moving to Spain/southern Europe.
27th Nov 2011, 23:21
OAD Thank you for the advice, I am not going to lie, paying 10k-35k just for getting ur European license even after working through the ranks and obtaining your Canadian ATPL is somewhat discouraging. It is a Lot of information to take in I think I will read and re read and do some research.
Zondaracer. I will look into South America, I was under the impression that the hurricane seasons might make it a little less attractive to live/work etc, I could be wrong completely about the climate. I haven't done any research Ill defiantly look into it. Thanks and I would definitely like to keep in touch via PM.
I am sorry I couldn't post a reply sooner, I am in the middle of moving into my apartment.
Thank you again, to both of you for your efforts and sharing your knowledge.