How do Air NZ and other Kiwi pilots fare?

[totempole]

Was in NZ recently for the RWC. Prior to that I was on holiday in Australia, nice except for those pesky flies and loud ozzie women. I found that many things were far cheaper in Australia than in the so called Godzone. I don't think that the slight further end of the world across the Tasman Sea should account for much difference in freight charges; I found Kiwi made stuff cheaper in Australia than in the Godzone.

I stayed away from the touristy places and yet found that the average kiwi boke generally pay much more than an average Yank or even a Canuck. A real eye opener; I wonder what kind of money the average Air New Zealand pilot makes to have a fairly good life.

The South Island has amazing sceneries and great oudoors. A great place to retire to, but with that kind of cost of living my nest egg ain't gonna hold up for too ong.

[framer]

You're not wrong. I worked there for a few years and it is difficult for the average Kiwi to get ahead.There is litte discretionary spending money left after the tax man and the basic costs of living are satisfied. The up side is that it's a great place to live as you saw.
The top tax bracket kicks in at $70,000 and is 38%.
If you earn $100k like I did you'l pay about 28k in taxes from your salary.
I paid about $1000 pa in taxes on petrol.
About $7000 pa on GST
About $1000 on ACC.
So all up I paid about $37000 in tax I reckon, leaves you with $63,000 to play with, rent was about $15000 and food and utilities about $13000. That leaves about $35,000 pa or $670 a week to buy clothes and go away for holidays and put petrol in the car etc etc etc ie to live on. Thats about $500 USD a week discretionary, and as you saw, that gets eaten up pretty quick.
I found that I couldn't save and live the lifestyle I wanted at the same time so I left. Tough choice though as it is a great place to live.
Why it's so expensive I'm not sure. I know that they spend over 25% of their GDP on welfare but I don't know how that would drive prices up, seems to me it would just reduce productivity of the place.

[waren9]

Its now 33c in the dollar , over $70K

Income tax rates for individuals (Find out about) (http://www.ird.govt.nz/how-to/taxrates-codes/itaxsalaryandwage-incometaxrates.html)

Otherwise, agree with Framer. Helengrad's 9 year long social engineering experiment f*d the place, making it a politically correct/MMP/green/anti-farming/anti-smacking/anti-airforce/Winston pleasing welfare state where it is nigh on impossible for business to succeed.

[framer]

Thanks for that warren, I used the calculator to work it out for when I was there and it came in at $29k paye on $100k, if I was there now and earning the same it would be 24k. An extra $5k would help although I think they may have given with one hand and taken away with the other as the ACC levies seem to have increased. Still, it would be an extra 4k a year I think.

[framer]

A quick search shows that the average nz salary as of three days ago is $51,100 pa. From the calculator that results in $8350 paye tax. leaving $42,750.
Subtract $10,400 for rent
$7800 for food
$2600 for power/phone/gas
$2600 for petrol
$1000 for insurance
$1000 for WOF/Rego/Maintenance

and you're left with $17,350 discretionary = $333 dollars a week or $260 USD.
So if you were an average New Zealander just looking after yourself, and never went anywhere or did anything, you chose to rent a place for $200 a week (average for one bedroom flat is $245, 2 bdrm is $309) never went to the movies or bought a pie from the bakery, never drove to the beach for a weekend or bought Christmas presents for family, you could potentially save $17k p.a.
I feel sorry for anyone on less than the average wage.

[lilflyboy262...2]

ACC levies have gone through the roof since the labour government nearly bankrupted it.
And GST is now 15% rather than 12.5%

Its in one hand and out the other.

[solowflyer]

I don't know where they get there average pay rates from. All the years I lived there I never knew anyone (including myself) other than drs and lawyers who earnt anywhere near the so called average. Miss the fishing but don't miss working 7 days and two jobs just to break even.

[mattyj]

Look at my location ..the land of high bills and low pay..you Aussies would spew if you saw our (monthly) power bills..in the early noughties we got working for families ..middle class welfare ..now 70% of kiwi families are beneficiaries! It was a nice top up at the time but its like heroin..try live without it now! The more you earn the less handouts ..a real disincentive! Wages have gone backwards in the last 15 years against cost of living in a big way!! That's why Jetstar will do well here..lowest cost wins in NZ every time

[Captain Sand Dune]

loud ozzie women
As opposed to the ball-breaking, pushy
Kiwi women...........:E

[Luke SkyToddler]

Could be worse ... could be one of the clever young "c" cats who went overseas in the '90s thinking we was all gonna get some sneaky jet time and get a few English pounds in the bank and win the lottery ...

... and ever since then we've all been looking on in horror as the exchange rate has doubled and the kiwi house price has tripled ... getting back home seems like even more of a distant pipe dream, than it did 20 years ago :{

[Lindstrim]

You could try to be a struggling CCat now on probably less than minimum wage weekly.

It ain't fun.

[mattyj]

You get paid..score?!!

[Massey058]

totempole,

I don't think NZ has ever properly recovered from the late 80's. There is a huge lack of capital by virtue of its small population and only a small group of exceptionally intelligent and talented entrepreneurs overwhelmingly outnumbered by a huge group of 'low productivity' suits and business owners. Middle-class welfare as it's put only seeks to address the low pay rates in NZ and hasn't necessarily worked. The current Government has failed just as much as the previous 3.

That all said, I was in Canada a week ago and I've got to say I was surprised by how expensive it is. Flights alone were phenomenally expensive, especially when compared to the US (although a much larger and competitive market). Entry into Air Canada is 2 years probation on CAD 36,000 - seriously :mad:!

Combine that with the need to buy huge amounts of winter gear just to survive I actually couldn't work out how my friends and their friends actually managed to survive.

I don't think I could afford to live in New Zealand or Canada, both beautiful countries.

[distracted cockroach]

I'll start with a proviso that I've only ever worked and lived in NZ, but have visited a lot of overseas countries and looked pretty closely at their living costs.
I agree that it is not cheap to live in NZ, but I don't think it's as expensive as a lot of people make out. Bearing in mind the exchange rate, a typical grocery shopping expedition is similar in price in NZ, the UK or Australia, and not much more than the US. Even Hong Kong isn't cheap if you shop at the western type supermarkets (but look at the cost of accommodation!) Lots of products are swings and roundabouts...less for some things but more for others. I live in Auckland, so housing is expensive if you want to live somewhere nice, but nice suburbs are expensive in other places too. Cars used to be very expensive here, and new ones still are, but 5 to 10 year old used cars are really cheap. Education is cheap and the State schools are pretty good. Private schooling is expensive, but that's a luxury and not a necessity.
The exchange rate against the UK pound was always around 33p to the NZ$, but it's now around 50p, so no wonder it's tough for kiwis who want to return from the UK.
With regard to the "average wage" of around $50k, most "airline" pilots are on much more than that, and most GA pilots would be close to it. OK, you are not going to earn much as a basic C-Cat instructor, but you never really did, even back "in my day".
Like any country, there are expensive places, and cheaper places, with the big cities being the most expensive. Life is much cheaper in rural areas, but that is not always an option for folk in our industry. It all depends on what you want and how you want to live your life.
I wouldn't want to live anywhere else, but nothing is for free....I'm sure I could make more money elsewhere, but that's not the aim of my game.

[glekichi]

Can't believe noone has said it yet, but, if you think NZ is expensive then don't bother coming near Australia.

Having lived a fair mix of each in the last few years in each, I can tell you the following:

Groceries: 20% cheaper in NZ. (Oz supermarkets are taking the piss in my opinion!)
Beer: 30-50% cheaper in NZ.
Real estate: 30-50% cheaper in NZ.
Telecommunications: on par.

Can anyone tell me what exactly is more expensive in nz compared to oz? Can't think of anything myself.

Btw. Beer. In oz a 24 pack of coopers is around $43. $19 something goes to the brewers and the rest to our taxman. That is why even after shipping the kiwis can buy it for less in a supermarket!

Lifestyle and all in mind, yes, I'd do exactly what I do now for 30% less in nz because it would buy me the same if not better a living.

[knox]

With regard to the "average wage" of around $50k, most "airline" pilots are on much more than that, and most GA pilots would be close to it.


I agree with most of your post but the reference to GA pilots in NZ being on close to 50k - try halving that figure and then you'll be close. I know a good amount of GA pilots in NZ and most are earning under 30k and the ones with slightly larger operators and doing ifr ops are approx mid 30k.

Nice thought though. :D

[Teal]

In oz a 24 pack of coopers is around $43


Who drinks Coopers? Seriously. :confused: I agree though that beer prices have steadily crept up a significant amount in recent years. Long gone are the days of buying a slab for under $20. Still plenty of cheap wine around though.

The last time I was in Auckland, quality house prices seemed high, but at least there was no stamp duty when purchasing, nor any capital gains tax for investors (though you'd still pay it if you were living in Oz).

Cars in NZ used to be uber-expensive but since the country has been awash with 2nd hand imports from Japan for so long now, new and used prices seem a lot more reasonable these days.

[Massey058]

Who drinks Coopers? Seriously.

What? Coopers is no good? Maybe I've been overexposed too much to bad Asian beer but I thought it was pretty alright.

[tinpis]

Nothing wrong with EITHER place
OZ is a little more exotic perhaps.
Lets see whats left after Joolias crew fix everything :hmm::(

[Hunter S Thompson]

According to wikipedia, both Aus/NZ spend on welfare as a percentage of GDP is virtually the same. As someone who spends a lot of time in both places I don't subscribe to the theory that Aus is a more affordable place to live.

I reckon if you earn the same number of $ in either country you will be able to afford a similar lifestyle (forget about the exchange rate).

[captncannot]

OZ is a little more exotic perhaps.

bah hahaha :-) good one :-)

Oz supermarkets are much more expensive. Australian beer is much cheaper in New Zealand, where nobody really wants it anyway because we have a far more sophisticated brew culture in comparison. The number of boutiquey beer brands in NZ supermarkets probably outnumbers Australia 4 to one these days. (Actually Australian beer is WAY cheaper in Hong Kong than in Australia.)

The real estate in Australia is way more expensive if you're talking only about Sydney and Melbourne. Perhaps that will change when China stops buying everything Australia can dig up, who knows. Australia is probly the only country I've lived in that actually thinks a high dollar is something to be proud of - cheering along as their manufacturing, stock market and tourism slide down the toilet, masked by the commodity prices as everything is sold to China, where it is processed and sold back to Australia. It has a bit of a temporary feel to it. Probably even more temporary as their industry is hit with all the Carbon Tax nonsense. Middle class Australia has a bit of a sucker punch coming in that department.

But, offsetting that, Australian pilots are paid more than 50% better than Kiwi pilots in the same seat/fleet/company.

Ultimately if you take a "total investment portfolio by age 55" tally then both of them are s**t places to live as a pilot IMHO. Very low pay compared to other places eg Asia. But I'd probably pick Australia for its higher disposable income if I was forced to.

The average Australian pilot has a much better lifestyle as compared to the average Kiwi pilot in the same seat/fleet, because the wage gap offsets the much higher cost of living in Australia.

[Howard Hughes]

As opposed to the ball-breaking, pushy
Kiwi women...........
Where is KC?:E

[slamer.]

Oz ain't got nothing on ol' Godzone


5:30 AM Sunday Jan 8, 2012 http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/20121/tairua_220x147.jpg

(http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10777333#)Photo Tairua.

There's a common misconception that Australia's summer is better than ours. It's peddled by backpackers who spend 50 weeks of their year-long holiday across the Ditch, before cramming our many delights into a fortnight.
You could also blame marketing campaigns, which champion Oz with glitzy commercials featuring wondrous golden beaches and beautiful people supping champagne enjoying vistas of red deserts and curious kangaroos.
What they fail to cram into these flashing 30-second teasers is that death waits at every turn and just a short hop to the east is an island paradise waiting to be (safely) explored.
Record numbers are emigrating to Australia - more than 50,000 made the transtasman leap last year alone. It's time to remind them what they're leaving behind.
Wildlife
Australia is known as the Lucky Country. Perhaps because you have to be just that to make it out alive.
Celebrated travel writer Bill Bryson, who knows a thing or two about the world, wrote that Australia has more things that can kill you in a very nasty way than anywhere else.

Oz is also home to nine of the world's 10 most poisonous snakes and the cassowary bird. In 1958, ornithologist Thomas E. Gilliard wrote that the second of the giant bird's three toes is fitted with a "long, straight, murderous nail which can sever an arm or eviscerate an abdomen with ease".
Then there are the killer spiders.
Yes, there is the odd shark sighting in New Zealand, but what else have we got to worry about? The mildly poisonous katipo?
Comedian Ewen Gilmour, a self-appointed "Cultural Ambassador", questions whether they even exist: "No one has ever seen a katipo. They don't even have one at the Auckland Zoo, and I wonder if we just made it up because we've got spider envy."
Gilmour says Australia is "probably" a fine holiday destination but is keenly aware of the dangers within its borders.
"New Zealand is such a nice proposition. We don't have any Australians for a start," he says. "We don't have any poisonous spiders or snakes, crocodiles, or white pointers. It means our beaches, rivers and forests are nicer places to be. You can go for a bush walk, get lost in the middle of the night, and nothing is going to eat you.
"Although, say you do get lost, you have to be very careful of the carnivorous bush snail, which is native to New Zealand. Those things, they creep up on you. They hide behind a tree, wait for you to walk past, and bam!"
Weather
Even if you do survive the 74 million species (approximately) of killer creepy-crawlies, you still have to contend with Australia's mind-numbing heat.
As Melbourne melted in 43C this week, New Zealand enjoyed mellow warmth and enough precipitation to delight farmers and gardeners. No tree-free deserts here, thank you very much.
TV chef Jo Seagar says summer rain is vital: "It's good for the lawn, and keeps the dust down."
Weather
Watch analyst Philip Duncan says there is nowhere to escape the "stifling" heat of an Australian summer.
"From the people I know over there, it is unbearable. It's a little too much on the good side," he says. "But then you've got the wet season in Australia and Northern Territory where they get the tropical downpours. It's hot, humid and sticky. For them summer is probably the worst time of year."
Gilmour says the tropical storms that regularly lash the Australian coast are a positive for New Zealand: "For them it might be devastating, a natural disaster, but for us it's a nice wee 2m swell with an offshore breeze, which is nice."
Food
Summer in New Zealand means fresh kai from the garden, farm and sea.
And Seagar knows where she'd rather cook.
"I know the Aussies get prawns, but give me a lovely Kaikoura crayfish anytime," she says. "And our oysters are much better than theirs. I've tried all of theirs, which they think are fabulous, but I think they're rubbish compared to ours.
"Then, we've got paua for the barbecue, gorgeous scallops, deep-sea cod in the South Island. Up north you get the snapper - it's abundant.
"It's not a major thing to grow a garden here, we don't need to worry about the kangaroos jumping all over your garden. Yesterday, I just picked big bowls of raspberries, and sat outside in the nice temperature and tucked in, it was lovely. Some of the heat you get in Australia, I could cook a Christmas cake in. I love our climate."
And if you want a sweet treat, look no further than our very own hokey pokey icecream, Kiwiana to the core.
If that's not your thing, what about a Jelly Tip or Rocky Road, perhaps a classic Trumpet, an icecream so good that Rachel Hunter was catapulted to international stardom on the back of her TV ad campaign for the brand in the 80s.
And here we beat Australia once again, with surfing star Paige Hareb wryly remarking: "Our icecreams don't melt as quick."
Drink
Beer and wine could perhaps also come under the category of pastimes, activities or sport because most of us enjoy a glass or two, and our providers are especially good at it.
From a boutique industry in the 1990s, New Zealand wine is world-renowned, commanding some of the highest prices worldwide. There are now more than 700 wineries across the country.
Our sauvignon blanc is considered the best by all except the French, who would rather lose a Rugby World Cup final than make that concession. Our pinot noir is right up there, and beats the mass-produced shiraz and cab sav served up next door.
Our beers, like our rugby supporters, are regional, parochial and proud. Speights in the south, Canterbury Draught, Tui and Waikato Draught. Then there are regional boutique brewers, McCashin's in Nelson, Baroona on Waiheke Island and many, many more.
Beer commentator Neil Miller says: "We have a lot more breweries per person than Australia and, in fact, we have one of the highest concentrations of breweries in the world.
"We also don't have to drink out of tiny little glasses so our beer doesn't get too warm. We drink out of a proper glass which is a great advantage when it comes to drinking a good beer."
Jacob Briars, globetrotting cocktails expert and formerly a purveyor of drinks to visiting hobbits at the Matterhorn bar in Wellington, adds that we can't be beat for our natural ingredients and know-how.
"Using Lighthouse Gin from Wairarapa, locally produced Quina Fina tonic water, and lemons from Kerikeri, and you've got a G&T the equal of anywhere in the world. It really is the ultimate summer drink, sitting at the bach or in front of your tent.
"It's a lot classier and nicer than a Bundaberg and Coke."
Sport
Okay, though Oz may traditionally dominate our shared national summer sport of cricket, it's probably because they suppressed our tours and development for most of the last century.
And when they did eventually "grant" us games, we threatened to beat them so they just bowled underarm. But we won the last test, so bragging rights reside here.
Domestically, our Twenty20 competition attracted such superstars as Muttiah Muralitharan; and the ASB Classic and Heineken Open tennis tournaments in Auckland allow some of the world's top players to prepare for the Australian Open later in the month. We're good like that.
Then there's Super Rugby, which starts so early these days it can be counted as a summer sport. We might not hold that title, but we have the World Cup, which is much better.
We do hold the Australian National Basketball League title, and the Breakers are in action all summer.
Our summer games have progressed in recent years. Kids, big kids, and "kidults" now participate in a wide range of summer sports, especially social ones that cater for whole families, like twilight touch rugby, mountain biking, water skiing, and Greco-Roman wrestling for the last KFC Mega Bucket Feast drumstick.
Mark Richardson, former Black Caps star and co-host of The Crowd Goes Wild, predictably plumped for cricket as the star sport of the season.
"Summer has always been cricket for me," he says. "We'd play backyard cricket test matches all summer holidays, and the great thing was, and is still is, that you can play all day, go to the beach, or play golf, and then go home and watch the Aussie cricket coverage ... The Aussies can't do that."
Music
Summer is music. And Kiwi music is made for summer, especially with the host of top acts touring the country, playing everywhere from massive stadiums to country pubs.
Kiwi rocker Jordan Luck says our tunes "fit in" with our landscape.
"A New Zealand summer is beautifully unique and the music is a massive part of it," he explains. "It's the Maori vibe, which picked up on reggae and made it distinctly Aotearoa. It's a different fashion, a great groove that suits the nation. Summer in New Zealand is reggae, and for me, it's Katchafire, one of the greatest things of our summer."
Dragon and Hello Sailor have allowed Aussie Jimmy Barnes to join them for a summer tour that reaches the Mangawhai Tavern tonight, and The Feelers will rock the Waihi Beach Hotel next Saturday.
Singer Nathan King, former frontman of Zed, says summer is "epitomised" by Fat Freddy's Drop.
"See them live, or stick them on the stereo, and it automatically feels like summer."
One of the biggest events in the music calendar is the Big Day Out, this year on Friday, January 20, at Mt Smart Stadium. Headlining are some of the world's top acts, including Soundgarden, Kasabian and former Oasis mainman Noel Gallagher.
To prove the depth of local talent, the bill will also feature homegrown acts such as Gin Wigmore and Kimbra - the same Kimbra that Australia is trying to pilfer by showering her with national music awards. Just like they did with Crowded House.
Fashion
Let's be fair. The Aussie summer isn't just about blokes with hairy XXXX beer bellies wobbling along the beach. There are budgie-smugglers, blue-singleted larrikins, bronze-chested boofheads and squawk-ing sheilas to contend with, too.
It's a far cry from the airbrushed world portrayed in Home and Away.
Kiwi blokes know they're not fashion gurus - and that's the point. They're comfortable with their look.
There's nothing wrong with wearing a pair of stubby shorts while you spiral the footy into the surf.
The girls are a class apart though. Bikinis, boardies, sarongs, scrunched-up t-shirts. Whatever their look they pull it off with minimal effort. And nobody likes a try-hard, especially an Aussie one.
Fashion guru and NZ's Next Top Model judge Colin Mathura-Jeffree offered his tips, of which Australians should take special notice: "Beachwear should be colourful, should be comfortable and most importantly should fit in all the right places."
Beaches
Back to wildlife, and every one of those wondrous golden beaches featured in the Oz marketing campaigns has the potential to be a sandy death trap.
Sharks wait to tear apart the unwary and swimmers in certain regions also have saltwater crocs and deadly jellyfish to contend with.
The great Kiwi tradition of baches also separates us from our close cousins of questionable heritage. You're unlikely to be able to lay claim to a historic holiday home built by your great-grandfather on the prime spot of some secluded bay on the other side of the Ditch.
Over there the Government would have bulldozed it on behalf of condominium developers a la Surfers' Paradise - another misnomer - and the Formica tables and kitchen dartboard would be replaced with Ikea tubular chairs and shiny chrome espresso machines.
And, unlike at Bondi, you don't have to fight your way past drunken Danes and inebriated English to reach the water. There's space for everyone.
Pro surfer Paige Hareb agrees: "We've got some of the best beaches in the world, and we hardly have to share."

[Captain Sand Dune]

Well said, slamer.
Pity the rest of you aren't convinced.:E

[Fark'n'ell]

slamer
Couldn't agree with you more mate.
Went down to the wharf yesterday, caught 30 kawhai (2 to 4 pounds) And was home again in less than 2 Hours. 5 Minutes drive from home.
If I want to go flying airfeild is only 2 minutes from home.Hunting in the high country= less than 20 minutes in a chopper or 1.5hrs drive.Jet ski, waterski,diving,sailing,to name a few are right on my back doorstep.
What more could one want.
Australia:ugh:

[porch monkey]

Sure, the odd creepy crawly may kill you, but at least I don't have to worry about **** falling down on me.......

[mostlytossas]

My main worry is just where are they all going to go when some volcanic eruption swallows the place. Because I don't think we have enough dark seedy doorways for them to stand in here.:}

[flyingtool]

air NZ pilots earn a decent amount. from 70k for a first year SO up to 300k for a 777 capt. a320 capt earning about 220k and a 767 260k. so they get by quite well

[Nose wheel first]

You've convinced me Slamer!

Wifey, junior and I are planning to move home to good old UnZud later this year (job permitting)

Was home for Xmas and had a blast going to my old fishing haunts, driving the North Island, visiting beaches I haven't been to for 7 years etc etc.

[The Green Goblin]

Speaking of those pesky new zealand earthquakes :hmm:

A major earthquake, measuring 9.1 on the Richter scale has hit New Zealand this morning. The country is devastated with 350,000 New Zealanders missing, and over 100,000 injured.

The country is totally ruined and the government is so overwhelmed that it has issued a worldwide appeal for assistance. Other nations have been quick to respond to the disaster.

Britain is flying in rescue workers and sniffer dogs to help locate trapped victims.

The USA is flying in food supplies and aid money.

France is flying in doctors, nurses and first aid units.

Japan is flying in high tech communications equipment.

Germany is flying in special trained police squads to help restore order.

Russia is flying in tents and warm clothing.

Australia is flying in 350,000 replacement Kiwis…….

[Nose wheel first]

GG... i'm pretty sure you told that one when the first CHC earthquake hit... :hmm:

[The Green Goblin]

But it's still gold :)

[haughtney1]

But it's still gold

Meanwhile in other news........an American man who has had his brain removed went missing earlier today.....he was last seen wandering in traffic singing "advance Australia Fair"

[relax737]

But you're a retreaded Kiwi tinpis!!! You gotta say that.

Green Goblin, there was a similar joke around a few years back when the NZ economy picked up and Kiwis left in droves for home. The best news was that Australians could now find a flat in Bondi, and the collective IQ of Australia increased.

Not trying to be offensive tinpis, just a joke.