Astir G102 CS

[BabyBear]

Opinions please on approxiamate value of 1977 model and suitablility for an early solo.

Many thanks,

BB

[gliderkev]

Price is fairly dependent on condition and fit - £5k will get you a tatty one including trailer and basic instruments, 6-7k wil get you a nice one. As for early solo suitability first ask your cfi but- they are nice and easy to fly and roomy. They do require a fully held off landing and are easy to bounce if you dont. They have heavy wings so are a bit of a pain to rig but not difficult otherwise.
Have the aluminium casting behind the cockpit checked for cracks - expensive to fix if it is cracked from a very heavy landing.
hope that helps
Kev

[cats_five]

At the very least the trailer needs to be roadworthy. Most trailers can be tweaked if necessary to make handling the glider easier - one essential for an Astir is a wing root dolly. It's not called the concrete swan without just cause.

Yes, the aluminium frame for the wheel can crack.

And as said by Kev - you should be asking your CFI what he thinks a suitable glider is. You could also ask whoever sent you solo, the chap or chaps that signed off your bronze flying tests.

Most important of all - do you fit it?

[Mechta]

Wing root dolly? In the trailer, yes. Otherwise, pure luxury!

An Astir CS77 is the first single seater glider in our club, and performs this job well.

Three reasonably fit people can rig the Astir, two can do it with a wing trestle. If you fly from grass, its a good glider in which to get used to retractable wheel, as a wheel-up landing is usually no more expensive than drinks all round in the clubhouse.

Flyingwise, the roll is heavy and slow, and you don't feel small thermals as you might with something lighter. Even so, I've had lots of good flights in marginal conditions.

As others have said, the fuselage frame is the main part to have checked. Issues we have had with ours are the rudder pedal adjuster cable not getting enough travel to allow the pedals to move and the elevator pushrod in the fin belling out where the clevis goes in the end.

A positive point is that there are loads of Astir parts around and if you should break a wing or other significant part you should be able to find a spare one. When we had to get our wing repaired, the repairer said he had three spare wings. Because of the frame issue, good fuselages maybe more of a rarity though.

I'm a tad over six feet tall and not exactly slim, and I can fit comfortably in the Astir. Do snuggle down into the seat and give yourself as much headroom as possible before doing up your straps, otherwise you can easily find your head hitting the canopy on a bumpy landing.

[BabyBear]

Thanks, that is exactly the information I was after.

There may be a share available within the Club and prior to asking the appropriate questions at the Club I decided to ask here first for independent opinions.

Thanks again,

BB

[ProfChrisReed]

I had a share in an Astir as my first glider, and can support all that has already been written. It's about as good a glider as can be for early solo pilots (LS4 excepted) - benign handling, solidly built (apart from that frame) and a huge cockpit.

I found (and know others to have found) that the wing section can suddenly stop flying in the hold-off, so that you drop the last few inches to the runway. This is annoying, but only a problem if you consistently hold off high. A hop and skip landing about one in three.

Rigging is perfectly easy once you know the trick - line up the pin on the end of the spar with the socket in the root of the other wing (looking inside the cockpit), and if it won't slide in easily, lift under the spar (this is a hands and knees job, pushing gently up with your back). I recommend 2 people and 2 trestles - that way you can line up the pin/socket without your partner wobbling at the knees (which misaligns them again). A small wing root dolly, so you can lift the tip and manoeuvre the wing around, is worth making. I found that two Astir pilots could put the wings on in 5 minutes, whilst a dozen who didn't know how to line things up could spend all day.

A 300k flight is perfectly doable in an Astir, so don't think you'll outgrow it in a hurry..

[Dan Winterland]

Stalling on from a few feet is an Astir thing and what cracks the alloy frame. It's easy to get welded (as long as it's not been welded too many times before) but a real pig to remove. The earlier Astir CSs had wooden frames, but I suspect there aren't many of these around now.

The original CS is the one with the bulbous looking cockpit. The Astir CS77 was an attempt to reduce drag - which it didn't. It only made the cockpit more cramped. I"m 6'3"", weigh about 95 KG. The CS was comfy, the CS77 not.

It''s quite a capable glider but I always supected it quoted LD of 1:38 was a bit generous. It's best LD is at a high 60 kts-ish due to the weight. But it's polar shows it's vintage and you will lose out trying to cruise between thermals fast. It's well made, considering it was Grob's first aircraft (they made car parts before gliders) and will last.

I'm quite fond of it. It was my first ever glass-fibre type and the glider I did my 300k's in. But I was flying the same route as a Ka6E and he got back not long after me!

[cats_five]

The tip of an Astir wing weighs as much as the root of my wing, so IMHO a wing root dolly is essential. It also makes it easier to get a wing in and out of the trailer without banging the trailing edge, especially for tall people who would have to be carrying the spar bent over - very bad for the back.

I used to help a friend rig his on a regular basis, and he soon brought a one-man rigging aid as we both have bad backs. We also found we had to be very careful in breezy conditions as it's a big wing and catches the wind easily.

[kestrel539]

Astir tips and roots heavy????....bunch of wimps.
Try a Kestrel root sometime, that will teach you the real need for trestles and
friends.:)

[Fitter2]

Eagle? No problem. The Gull 2 now, that was a monster centre section, fortunately Slingby only built one, and we wrote it off at Lasham.

And the Sigma trailer came with built in sheerlegs and winch - rigging by lifting bodies would have sent all in sight running away.

Do I sense thread creep here?

[Rocket2]

I did loads of 300k's & a 500k (at 75kph) in my trusty '77, loved it & would still have it today but change of financial priorities & loss of syndicate members mean't it had to go:{. Went on to do a couple of more 500k's with the new owner, a good honest aircraft that will teach you a lot & give you loads of pleasure.
Rigging? I reckoned if the old girl didn't want to fly then no amount of jiggling would get the wings on so back in the box for another try later.
R2

[cats_five]

Astir tips and roots heavy????....bunch of wimps.
Try a Kestrel root sometime, that will teach you the real need for trestles and
friends.:)

I did have the misfortune to be trying to lift the wing top on an Open Janus ones. Never again.

[BabyBear]

From the information kindly given here it appears that as the Astir in question is hangared, rigged and since there is a roadworthy trailer it may well be an ideal option to give me rewarding flights whilst being challenging enough to help develop my gliding skills.

Next step is to ask the appropriate questions at the Club. I believe an insurance share may be an option, a new concept to me.

BB

[Sensible Flyer]

Astir is a nice first solo glider. It's fairly docile and good enough for decent cross-country flights. Don't bother flying with water though - it's heavy enough as it is.
Others have pointed out that it does need a fully held off landing, but this is only good practice anyway really.
Airbrakes and wheel brake are quite effective and I landed in a fairly small field once with no problems

Something to check which has not been mentioned yet is that there was an airworthiness mod to the tailplane attachement in around 2003. I think it involved inspection and/or replacement of the anchor pin - this was after one failed in flight (not in the UK IIRC).

Easy to rig so long as you make sure the grommets that the wing spigots slide into are aligned, otherwise you will be shouting "wiggle and push" for a cosniderable time!
Tailplane rigging had a bit of a knack to it too. Best way seemed to be to let got of the locking tab and push back and down. Somehow if you held the tab down (which seems the logical thing to do), it was much more difficult to get it in. Grommets also have to be aligned properly.

Enjoy!

[Mechta]

Airbrakes and wheel brake are quite effective

The wheel brake relies upon a tapered spline on the actuating lever, to drive the cam which spreads the brake shoes. Over-enthusiastic use can strip the spline in the actuating lever and/or pull the cable through the cable clamp beyond the actuating lever. The lever comes with the cam and a new one will set you back 75 to 90 Euros. If you have got a good wheelbrake, don't abuse it by trying to do emergency stops in line with the launchpoint. Save it for when you go into a tight field and really need it.

When fitting the tailplane, we find it easier to have someone hold the stick at full down elevator to get the Hotellier connection up at its most accessible position.

[AlastairMutch]

I had a CS77 as a first glider for a few years and just got rid of it last year. Good honest aircraft, roomy cockpit (at least compared with a Discus) and GREAT airbrakes. It doesn't like wet wings though and soon lets you know if it starts raining by rumbling a bit.

The tailplane A/D doesn't apply to the CS77. It doesn't have the puny retention ball of the earlier models.

Rigging is simple enough if everything is lined up... and virtually impossible if it's not. I rigged mine one-man most of the time using a rigging aid as long it the wind was less than about 10 kts. More than that and you need a hand due to wind pressure on the deep chorded wing. No pins to lose either.

Some say it's easy to bounce on landing but I found landing with full airbrake with a fully held off landing worked virtually every time. You do need to watch the speed as it's reluctant to round out with full a/b if you are a bit slow.

If you are rigging in the cold then switching the hoteliers from r-clips to the retained Schemp-Hirth locking pins/springs is well worthwhile and pretty cheap. It saves having the fear of dropping an r-clip down inside the fuz and the SH springs are a lot easier to get in without being able to see what you are doing.

Go for it!

Alastair