Advice for an up and comer

[i-must-fly]

I'm not really sure if this is the right place to post this but anyways here goes.

I'm in year 10 at the moment and i know it's crucial that I do "Mathematics" (NSW) or 2 unit or whatever it's called in the other states to be a pilot. Problem is, the course goes on from what the 5.3 class (top class) has been doing for the past few year's and so will obviously include things i've never seen before.

So I have to pick my Year 11 subjects now and i'm kind of in a rut.
Here's the thing.
I either-
a. Do the Mathematics class and be struggling day and night trying to keep up with the workload all while not having enough time to study the other subjects i.e. notably physics (another pre-requisate for a pilot), possibly failing the course and not have enough units for an atar.
b. Do general maths for year 11 and 12, have enough time to do well in all the other subjects and get a decent atar (to fall back on). Then after this, do Mathematics at TAFE or a bridging course.
c. Suck it up, go all out, do mathematics in year 11 and year 12 and hope things stay together.

My questions are-
Will the airlines take me seriously if I choose to do the higher maths at a later stage, or do they only pick the absolute cream of the crop like the air-force?

If I do General Maths in year 11 and 12, will I be out of my depths in Physics considering it includes many skills learnt during Mathematics, or can I just learn these while I go along?

p.s. Being a pilot isn't something i've just dreamt up of overnight. I've known this is what I want to do since about 8 years old and I'm absolutely kicking my self now for not doing something about my Maths earlier on. One thing's for sure though, I'm not short of determination.

[wheels_down]

Take it easy mate, I wouldn't worry about airline pre-requisites until another 10 years!

Subjects mean nothing, unless you are going down the degree path which is a waste of time.

Since when do you need physics, advanced maths or even a expensive education. I did none of those and still flying strong today!

[WannaBeBiggles]

Those minimums have always baffled me, especially given that they also require at least passed in all ATPL subjects, which means you have the ability to perform all the calculations you will ever need as a pilot and have the nous to comprehend all the (basic) physics involved in getting that hunk of metal airborne as well as the various systems which make up an aircraft.

Anyway, back to your question.

I agree with WD, it'll take you quite some time to get to an airline, unless of course you are looking at cadetships.

There are plenty of bridging course which are accepted by the airlines and the RAAF.

Having said that, if you think you can handle the workload and work out a way to study smarter by adopting a some good study practices then I say go for it!

Having a good study routine down when going in to your CPL is always a good thing.

Either way, enjoy the journey :ok:

[Wally Mk2]

I guess 2day's generation are on a different level with the education system to us older ones where some of us barely made it thru year 10 such as myself & never went back to school to finish those exams simply 'cause they meant nothing to actually fly.
You don't need to be a whiz at school to fly a plane that's the easy bit anyone can steer a plane around the sky the trick is to impress the boffins who think that having a higher education is required to be a jet jockey:-)

'wanna-b-b' is right re the ATPL, that's yr yard stick in flying the rest is purely window dressing & even the ATPL is mostly nonsense as you won't use half of that stuff in yr real life flying world.

Just how many of us 'lifers' in aviation would be able to sit & pass all the ATPL subject right now?.........very few I'd say!:)

Am sure you will get plenty of advice here from the younger smarter ones who are not long from the current education system.

It's the dream of flying that makes you get thru not the numbers:ok:


Wmk2

[mcgrath50]

I don't know your exact ability but the 2U Maths course and Physics courses are not as difficult as their reputation makes them seem. They also scale well, eg; a 60% in 2U Maths can equal an 80% General Maths when the ATAR is calculated.

Give them a thought, if you knock them out now you never have to worry about them again!

[Cirronimbus]

I was in a similar position many years ago. Not confident of my ability with Maths and Physics but full of determination. I took the plunge, explained to my teachers what I was planning and worked hard. It paid off. I did not get good marks but I did get pass marks and that is all that mattered in the end. I would say to you, to have a go. Aim high and if it doesn't come off you can still undertake further studies afterwards to get the marks you need. You might be pleasantly surprised and see your hard work and determination pay dividends. I hope this is the case for you. Good luck.

As for degrees; it is true that you do not need one to fly a plane. Most of us that do fly probably don't have one, regardless of what licence we hold. When I started learning to fly, there was no such thing as a Graduate Certificate in Aviation Management (let alone a Master's Degree) but now there are all sorts of options that weren't available in years gone by. However, at your age, you are going to be competing for jobs against a lot of people who do have degrees. I know some employers look favourably on people who have degrees or are studying towards one. It demonstrates that the person is willing to study and learn and has the right aptitude for further study (towards ATPL for eg). You don't have to study an aviation related degree either. Opting for another field gives you an alternative if aviation doesn't work for you.

So, I would say try the Maths and Physics, ask your teachers for assistance and see where your studies take you. Developing good study habits now will certainly benefit you when you start your pilot training. Think carefully about the university study too. A degree might not help you in the cockpit but it might help get you into one.

Good luck.
Cn

[DancingDog]

I know I ask alot of Qs but theres one on this topic that I need to know.
Some non-uni flight schools do CPL, MECIR and ATPL courses as a so called degree, for example getting MECIR after CPL is called the Diploma of aviation. I would like to know if this is an actual, recongnised (key word) qualification, or if it's just a load of crap.
Thanks

[i-must-fly]

I was under the assumption that a pass in english, 2 unit maths, and physics was the basic criteria to fly for an airline. However, that assumption only stems from looking at the criteria for a cadetship with qantas, or a career in the air-force.

So, what do you guys think is the best path for me to become a pilot?
If I don't go for a cadet-ship, get the ATPL myself and apply for an airline later on (direct entry??), will they still look at my year 12 marks or is that irrelevant at that stage?

[Oktas8]

Distinguishing between universities and distinguishing between "strong" degrees and "weak" degrees is most important in disciplines requiring academic qualifications. If you want to work at a university, you'll need a "good" degree. But all applied qualifications, aviation being one, tend to be regarded about equally by employers after you have the main pre-requisites of a license & flying hours.

I have two degrees. One is an academic degree, for which I received very poor grades indeed, from a top academic university. Another is in aviation, an applied discipline, from a university not well known outside the region, but I got top marks. No-one in aviation cares in the slightest about my marks or the reputation of the university. But having the qualifications have helped me get jobs at each stage of my aviation career. Other colleagues, without academic qualifications but as good or better pilots than me, have gotten their jobs by using other strengths that I don't have (like being willing & able to spend years in the outback!)

It's the dream of flying that makes you get thru not the numbers
Absolutely right. If you can do the recommended subjects, do them. If you can't, don't worry about it. The thing to avoid is seeking the easy way out, which shows your dream is not really a passion at all.

[WannaBeBiggles]

I was under the assumption that a pass in english, 2 unit maths, and physics was the basic criteria to fly for an airline

Unfortunately that is true for some of the airlines, it's part of the vetting process and if you haven't ticked those boxes then you are stiff out of luck!

However most will accept a bridging course for those subjects, I know of a few people who ended up going this way.

As mentioned perviously though, if you can stretch yourself now you might as well do it.

[romeocharlie]

Regarding minimums for airlines, the only two I'm aware of now that still require passes in anything are Qantas, and Skywest. They both require pass in board English and maths (2 unit or equivalent). As far as others are concerned, a pass in yr 12 is minimum regardless of subjects. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Ergo, the question you've asked, and considering work load, I would say forget physics and get the English and maths done. Airforce is a completely different kettle of fish, and you will need high marks in all of maths, physics and English to even be considered. Approved bridging courses for airlines are considered sufficient (as they should be).

As for having a degree, not once have I been asked why I didn't go to uni.

Hope this helps a little.

RC

[Bear Grylls]

Don't forget that if you're planning to do a degree, it waivers the high school education requirements for Qantas. It can be of any discipline, so you can even study rocks for all they care. It's pretty stupid though. Any bozo can find an easy non aviation degree. It makes you wonder why they really want these education requirements.

[Oktas8]

As for having a degree, not once have I been asked why I didn't go to uni.

I've never been asked "why did you do a degree?" If interviewers want to know your psychological motivations, they'll ask other questions.

A degree shows an ability to stick to a defined program of self-development for a prolonged period, which ticks some of the boxes of desirable attributes for an airline pilot. Hence why all degrees are acceptable. But there are other ways to tick those same boxes, so degrees are not and probably never will be mandatory.

I'd encourage wannabees to ignore the debates about whether degrees are desirable for airlines. An airline pilot must have the self-discipline to develop skills to a measurable standard, set by others. There are many ways to prove an ability to do this - e.g. working your way up through the ranks to management in a company, following a trade, doing a degree, or of course showing consistent development in general aviation over a number of years.

Of course, some do degrees as a fall-back career starter in case the aviation thing turns to custard.

[i-must-fly]

Really? I can do a degree in anything? Bah, this is so confusing.
Would it be more useful doing, say, an aviation degree of some sort?

Also, I just realized Qantas no longer has HSC Physics as a requirement for cadet-ship and Direct Entry. I've always been told this is an important subject for being a pilot. Should i really not bother with it at all??

[Oktas8]

Yes you can do any degree. But if you do a degree in indigenous basket-weaving, I guess you're not really interested in aviation are you? The two pursuits are not usually compatible. Alternatively, if you do a PhD in political science, I would also say that you're not really interested in an applied career as an aerial bus driver. You could prove me wrong of course, but few people combine interests in such divergent areas.

So what interests you? What course at university is so interesting that you'd be willing to study it in preference to partying with all your mates on Friday night? Then leverage the degree to pursue your other interest of aviation.

Does physics interest you? At all? If so, it is helpful. For example, the simplest (accurate) answer to
How do I manoeuvre an aircraft?
is
By tilting the lift vector.
Without physics you won't even understand what I'm talking about. So physics is helpful. Some people become pilots despite being physics-free zones, but they invariably have strengths in other areas to compensate for this (mild) weakness. I encourage you to develop in all your weak areas if it's possible.

[i-must-fly]

Well my other career paths would be-

-IT, interests me most (other than planes, of course :)) and relatively high pay

-Something to do with English. (also interested, only because it's the subject I'm best at.) I'm doing extension 1 by the way. Of little relevance to a pilot, I know.

So I guess a degree in Infomation Technology or something would actually be a decent idea and it's maybe something I could fall back on with relative ease.

[Slasher]

I did Matric in Pure Math and Applied Math, English, Physics,
Chemistry. Took Economics as the humanity subject. Passed
the lot and its stood me well the past million years.

Dunno what the Oz education system is nowadays - probably
far more complicated and with a lot more bull**** than in my
day.

[Spotlight]

We must be the same age and demographic Slasher. I 'deferred', used the energy of youth to earn some money, get a license and get going. Biggest regret in life is that the girl that helped me so much didn't last the distance.

Two years in she was complaining that it was taking so long for me to be an airline pilot, and left!

[Bear Grylls]

Like said previously, do a degree in an area which interests you. Perhaps something which can lead you to a field in which if you lose your medical, you don't end up on the doll. Instead, a career which you will enjoy!

That being said, there are many pilots out there without aviation degrees (including IT), and they're driving 777s.

By the way, Aboriginal basket weaving is a mighty fine field of study
Consider that as well :ok:

Best of luck!

[YZToby]

Hey mate,

I did the HSC a few years ago, did Maths, English (extention, as you are doing) and Physics and to be honest none of those helped to understand aerodynamics or anything aviation related (except relatively simple trigonometry, for working out crosswind components etc). Physics was things like projectile motion, which came in handy if you wanted to shoot cannon balls at something. What did have more of a practical application was Engineering Studies, because our class elected to do a topic on aerodynamics, and I found that subject fairly interesting.

Not saying all those subjects wont help you get into an airline though, I imagine having them behind you would help at interview time.

As mentioned a few times above the main thing that will get you through is your passion for flying,

Good luck!

[i-must-fly]

So I know this is a question that's probably been asked a million times and has allot of different opinions, but-

What would be the best way for me to become a pilot?
There's so many different ways to do it, i'm just confused as to which is generally speaking, the "best" path to take??

[Bear Grylls]

There isn't a best path as such. Everyone is different and what may seem great to others, is terrible for some. Some people may love GA, though some wont. If your dream is to get into the airlines, then a degree is great. You will be competitive in regards to someone without one, and it may very well become a requirement for most airlines in the future. You can also live at home for that little bit longer, party up and grow up whilst your in your prime.

However if you wanted to end up in a jet quickly, you're better off enrolling into full time flying after high school. Knock off your CPL and ATPL in under a year, and head north. The quicker you're in the game, the quicker you move up the ladder.

That said, getting into the airlines ASAP may not be a top priority. Whether you make it at 23 or 33, you will still be flying the same routes, for a similar mob for the next 25-30 years. So do what you think you will be happy with. As for the math subject, I found it to take up too much priority for other subjects. There is always the opportunity to do it later on, so don't stress. But if your teacher recommends you for it, go for it.

Good luck champ.
:ok:

[framer]

I agree there is no "best path". Also, if you choose a path, and start off down it, that may not be the path that eventually leads you to an airline. What I'm saying there is 'don't let set backs stop you'.
The other thing that springs to mind when I read your posts, is that if you're like me and many others, you don't yet know what you're capable of. If you work hard, and I mean hard, not 2 hours a night but before school and after school and one full day each weekend, you will be amazed at how high you can push your grades. I didn't cotton on to this until I was in my twenties. If I knew at school that the answer to good grades is lots and lots and lots of study, then I would have aced year 12 :)
Don't be tempted to think you sit in a certain "intelligence bracket". Knuckle down, start drinking coffee and study boy study. You'l get your Math 2 or whatever it's called now days if you want it.
During my ATPL study 100% was my goal with all exams. Don't aim for 80% or 90%, aim for 100% in each subject and you'l get blody good marks.
My two cents, have a good one mate :)