Aircraft going back to stand - to collect late passenger

[jabird]

Have been meaning to post for a while, as this happened at HEL in Dec 09.

I was awaiting an EZY flight home when a passenger was repeatedly called, and the gate closed.

Then, some minutes later, the passenger was rushed across the terminal by Finnair staff, and I could hear on the intercom what appeared to be communication with the ramp agent saying the aircraft was being brought back to the stand.

Pax was young female, on her own - obviously distressed, but surely the usual reaction is a healthy dose of empathy, and rebook on the next flight if she's lucky. Afaik, destination was DEL, which is daily service, so not the end of the world.

Never encountered this happening before, not sure whether that shows fantastic service towards the late passenger or contempt for the other 300+ - but on an overnight sector, a small delay can easily be caught up - not that I'd ever expect to hear about BA doing this.

[TSR2]

Afaik, destination was DEL, which is daily service, so not the end of the world.

It is if the passenger was an unaccompanied minor.

[racedo]

Guess it depends, if pax had an onward flight or there was a limited service or if there was a delay due to an incoming flight or for any variety of reasons and there can be nothing done or a lot done.

Had it happen to me when travelling in the US when flight from PHX to IAH was delayed by 3 hours meaning flight to LGW was likely to be missed.

Landed and ran to gate where already boarded and door closed, turned up and staff said are you Mr X, they then brought me to plane saying better get you on this as otherwise its 24 hours before next one.

Got lucky on this occasion as when boarded my exit row seat had been pinched but FA said come on and will get you a different seat, Bus class seat was reasonable compensation :)

[edi_local]

Could be numerous factors in this. I've only heard of an aircraft being returned to stand due to a tech fault which has made itself known during the taxi or if, after doors have closed, something has flagged up at the boarding gate or indeed on the taxi which requires a pax to come off etc.

If she was an UnMin then fair enough. Perhaps, due to whatever reason this young woman's bag was going to be going without her (Failure of ground crew to communicate she was not on board, system error, card reconciled in error etc) and it was quicker to get her on than to look for and get her bag off. Flying her bag without her is obviously a no/no. Perhaps the captain had to return to stand for an unrelated matter and agreed to take her on anyway if she had no checked bags.

Could be one of many reasons.

[RAT 5]

Here's one for the captains. What would you do if the agent said everybody was on and accounted for? You push back 10mins early and THEN an unexpected pax arrives. You left early and don't return. If I was that pax and left stranded, with possible crucial business/financial consequences, I would strongly consider, in the best use of americaneze, suing the airlines ass off. I had a contract for a seat on a flight departing at ABCDlt, but it left at -10. I know the small print says you have to be at the gate STD -x. However, there was a massive hold up in the terminal; not pax's fault. They were there in good time etc. etc. Could have had a case of 'the runs' at STD -15. We are in the customer service industry.
I have had it where doors were closed and engines not yet started. Pax arrive at gate; not their fault they were late. We shall arrive at destination early anyway; or it's an intercontinental flight of >10hrs; or it's Christmas and pax want to get to family. Let them on. That's what captain are there for; to use some nouse when other robots are plugged into rigid policies. Sadly, the decision sometimes doesn't even reach the captain, as was case on a well known TV program. The a/c as still at the gate and a group of pax were on the way to a family funeral. Circumstances were such that they were at check-in a few moments late. Next flight too late for funeral. No way to get past the check-in deadline rigidity. Captain never informed? I'd expect some voodoo doll/pin pricking went on that night.

[peba]

Had it a while back where a husband ran all the way to the gate to tell us his wife is just behind him,I said ring her and tell her to walk,we will wait!!!made the time up in the air.
With regard to a single pax being at the gate -10mins etc,If it is only 1 person,then what can be done,but if it a few people then its a trend and I would wait,Particularly if they checked in bags(evidence they are actually here etc).

[jabird]

Thanks for all the interesting comments. Based on my SLF observations - reasonably astute but it was a day trip of sightseeing in HEL ;). :ugh:

1) Pax was over 18
2) Name had been called numerous times - this was not a rushed connection.
3) A/c had left the gate - contact stand rolled back.

However, with all pre-departure checks etc, a/c may not have actually got that far, could have been metres from the stand, or still within immeadiate vicinity.

So if this sort of thing does happen, what is the final 'point of no return' - V1, rotate? Or could an a/c return even after than for any reason other than tech issues?

[davidjohnson6]

If you want to go truly exceptional, I recall there was a case when the 2 daughters of Bush the Younger while he was president wanted to a catch a commercial flight - US Airways arranged for a plane to make a non-scheduled landing en route to pick them up

[INKJET]

Point of no return for me is doors closed, after this you run all sorts of risks with escape slides being armed.having said that if I'm made aware of security delays I will wait until STD or later if it's clear lots of people are missing, very rare though.

As for ums the parent is meant to stay at the airport until aircraft has departed, a lot don't !!

[edi_local]

If, for any reason an A/C has to return to stand and re-open the doors (lets say a tech fault resulting in a delay but not cancellation or A/C swap) then could a previously offloaded PAX then be accepted for travel?

Just curious as I have seen, on one occasion (not at EDI) PAX being turned away for arriving at the gate too late, only for the A/C to return to stand, open the main door, have the jetbridge return and then eventually push back again about 20 minutes later without the offloaded PAX even seeing any of this happen. Would it be possible to accept the PAX at this point? Would it make a difference if they had checked bags to re-load?

[racedo]

I think there is a whole load of factors and think you will find that majority of it will relate to what Captain will allow.

The problem with having a hard and fast rule is that it negates the Captain having any discretion.

Just because it happened at X Airport with A Airline doesn't mean at Y Airport with B Airline it will be the same.......

Crikey if the airports could get security standardised first that affects majority of passengers then thinking of a policy that affects few people might get a look in.

[speedrestriction]

Generally I wait until STD if there are missing pax and in this age of web check-in that is quite frequent. If they have bags at the aircraft and I know that I can make up time enroute for an on time arrival and I know the aircraft isn't on a minimum time turnaround for the next sector and that the current and subsequent flights are not slot constrained I would give until +5 at the latest. Once the push request has been made that is game over for the late pax for two reasons - 1) there are too many other competing interests from the ramp space to runway position and the ground crew's next task and 2) it sets a poor precedent.

SR

[RAT 5]

All sounds good sensible stuff. The sad thing is still that the decision does not always reach the captain. Often pax can not get past check-in because they are 5 mins late. The check-in closes before the a/c has arrived. This will only happen with hold baggage, but even so, it does not seem overly customer friendly. Refusing to checkin a pax even though they a/c will be late seems harsh. It has happened to me. I was commuting on company a/c, out of uniform but with a checkin bag, and I saw at home on teletext that the a/c was 2 hours delayed. This was the penulitimate departure to my destination. So I turned up for the checkin as per the new delayed departure time. The checkin was closed. No-one there. I found the handling agent, no sympathy. After 15 mins the checkin for the last flight opened so I checked in. I arrived at the departure gate to see the earlier delayed flight at the gate. I could not get on. I watched it push back, fly to my destination, return 2.15hrs later and then I boarded to repeat the trip. Me and numerous other pax had just witnessed this fiasco. There was no way the computer system would allow those of us on the last delayed flight to fill up the earlier delayed flight, which had in fact departed at the STD of the last flight of the day. It went with 40 empty seats. It was all down to unreconciled baggage. Understandable, but maddening.

[birdstrike]

Not quite the same thing, but many moons ago whilst flying the F27 as a freighter for Channel Express we operated GLA - EMA for UPS. On arrival at EMA we were sent back to GLA as freight which had arrived late at GLA was deemed to be so important (or at least the customer was so valuable to UPS) that it was worth an extra rotation.

I seem to remember it was only a few kilos that we collected, but presumably it was for onward overnight shipment to the USA.

[jabird]

BS, I can only assume that the non-self-loading freight had paid for the belly equivalent of a first class ticket, it could well have been urgent machine parts worth quite a few £$€ at the other end, my guess would be that in these days of video conferencing / telepresence, there is a lot that passengers can do without needing to fly, but specialist equipment that is only made in one place must surely have a much greater urgency.

Thanks everyone for the interesting replies, I certainly wasn't suggesting that AY / HEL had any special policy, it was just something I hadn't seen before. If it happens again I'll watch very closely how far, if at all, the a/c has actually got from the ramp.

[scotbill]

not that I'd ever expect to hear about BA doing this. Was pushing back from the jetty at Madrid once when I saw a passenger (male) join the dispatcher in gazing wistfully at the departing aircraft. As we were the last flight to London, I asked the engineer to take us back on to collect him.
Later in the flight, one of the cabin crew came up to say, "Mr Hackman says thank you very much. He's due on the set for Superman at nine o' clock tomorrow!"
I'll leave it to the film buffs to date the event.

[Nubboy]

Had just put the power on at SOU once on a trislander on the last flight to ACI for the weekend when the tower called to say they'd found the lost little old lady who was a bit deaf and hadn't heard the boarding announcements:ok:

[jabird]

I should add for the fellow train & plane buffs -

Arriving at St Moritz station for a train towards Zurich via Chur, I asked in broken German if I was by the right train. The platform attendant shook his head, then took me through the wrong train, on to the tracks, and then up onto the adjacent correct train. Had he directed me through the subway, I would have missed it, as it was literally one minute before departure and these trains always leave on time.

I've never heard of a train being called back to the platform though - and once those little Hitler platform attendants have closed the doors, they don't re-open!