The origins of the Taceval [Archive]

Finningley Boy

6th Nov 2011, 23:12

Ladies & Gentlemen,

Many long years ago I was listening with interest to a Flight Sergeant of some years standing about some of the anecdotal events he could recall.

One particular event followed the story of an AFI at an R.A.F. Station (don't know where) as the AOC's car arrived in front of the parade and the Station Commander moved forward to greet the senior officer, a Helicopter, which had requested and been given emergency clearance to land on the far side of the airfield, was just doing so, when a number of armed individuals, wearing all the gear for going into the field, emerged from the chopper and proceeded to run toward the parade area firing off blanks and throwing thunder flashes about. The AOC in question had arranged the event to watch the C.O. coping under pressure. The object, at the time, to prove that station ground defences were weak and in need of immediate attention.

The good Flight Sgt further explained that the Air Officer in question was who I had to thank for Tacevals, Minevals, and so forth.

I was wondering if anyone may have heard a similar story, or indeed, were there, and could expand on the matter?:hmm:

FB:)

jamesdevice

6th Nov 2011, 23:44

sounds like a garbled version of part of the plot of the 1955 film "Strategic Air Command"

Strategic Air Command (1955) - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048667/)

RAFEngO74to09

7th Nov 2011, 00:04

Finningley Boy,

The event you refer to would not have been the origin of TACEVALs / MAXEVALs / MINEVALs. TACEVAL is a NATO-wide programme which provides for the evaluation and assessment of the military combat readiness and capabilities of tactical air forces on behalf of the Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR). In the RAF, a MAXEVAL was the national rehearsal for the TACEVAL conducted by the relevant theatre HQ (eg HQ STC or HQ RAFG as was) and MINEVALs were conducted at the behest of a stn cdr as frequently as he deemed necessary to prepare for the MAXEVAL and thereafter to remedy any deficiencies noted during the MAXEVAL prior to the TACEVAL. Evaluations were conducted in five areas in an integrated scenario: Alert & Readiness, Operations, Logistics, Survive-To-Operate (later renamed Force Protection) and (where relevant) Ground Based Air Defence (GBAD).

In RAFG, particularly when General Haig was SACEUR and concerned about a Warsaw Pact attack at very short notice over a weekend or bank holiday, this resulted in an exercise / evaluation in one form or other almost every month. I have fond memories of 100+ events as a participant and then 39 events as an evaluator travelling all over the Norther Region. Happy days !

Finningley Boy

7th Nov 2011, 00:34

Indeed, I recall taceval teams being made up of different nationalities, arriving at any hour and all stations within the central region being subject to a visit from the taceval team. But I do recall the said Flight Sergeant holding forth on the subject and thought perhaps this was the origins of it all.

The Flight Sergeant in question could certainly tell a yarn or two. That's for sure. But I wondered more if someone might be able to endorse the story. As Jamesdevice says, the very incident occurs in the 1955 film Strategic Air Command.

FB:)

taxydual

7th Nov 2011, 06:59

AFAIR, wasn't it 'The Bear', when AOC Training Group in Support Command, who did it to Valley in the late '70's?

Army Mover

7th Nov 2011, 07:10

It was bizarre, being an Army lodger unit on an RAF station; we used to sit in our office and pretend nothing was happening; after 3 months of this and a moan to OC Ops about our inactivity, he let us participate as the enemy - that was loads of fun :E

Pontius Navigator

7th Nov 2011, 08:11

Tacevals came late to UK. Events such as AOCs doing something were not new.

Largeson, when AOC 18 Gp, was always known to pull tricks. At ISK one year he briefed his ADC to leave his unmarked briefcase in the hall of the Officers' Mess.

The alarm duly occurred and we all beat a hasty retreat from the Mess to the muster point. We exited via the mess windows, pints in one hand (you could drink at lunchtimes then) and plate of food in the other.

I was also at Wittering in 1974 when they had their first taceval. They were probably introduced to UK around that time. The station had also just started tone-down. PSA, bless em, painted No 1 hangar emerald green, the olny green they had.

Wander00

7th Nov 2011, 08:19

Taceval Pt 1 ALWAYS started during the small hours didn't it - at least the system knew where most people were likely to be. Then that place in N Linconshire with the pointy noisy things, first week in June 81, about 1215 daytime the SWO, WO PSF and I were having chat in the general office - 6 or 7 shiny black cars came in the main gate and down the main drag - "Did not know there was a funeral today" says the SWO - followed by F@@**%%g Hell! It's Taceval! What a Part 1 that was. Remember it well, not least because as it endexed had a phone call from my brother that my Mum had had another stroke. Drove like a rocket to Northwood and she died that night. What a day!

Pontius Navigator

7th Nov 2011, 08:28

At ISK it was difficult for the team to mount a no-notice taceval. Initially they used Dalcross but when they found out that Dalcross tipped the wink they switched to Aberdeen. That didn't work either.

Thenone exercise the staish persuaded the resident battalion at Fort George to hold an exercise in Roseisle Forrest. Now they were not part of our ground defence but to avoid confusion :) they had a liasion officer in the GDOC. It was practically impossible for the SAS to move against the airfield without being told in. Of course as they were on a different exercise they were allowed through and still managed to wreak their style of mayhem.

langleybaston

7th Nov 2011, 09:32

I was Met evaluator when I was senior forecaster at JHQ. late 1970's. Highlights included:

a Benelux base whose Glass-house style Met Office was ideal for cultivation of cannabis ...... SMetO offered me a spliff!

a German base with a superbly equipped AlterMet which was about to attract my considerable praise when I noticed the well-concealed wheels and trailer bar. It turned out that, if WWIII erupted, the caravan would be deployed off base and was a joint-use facility that was carefully pre-positioned wherever the word was Taceval might be next!

There was a degree of dishonesty about the final write-up ....... I was told more than once by the team leader "you cannot write that about one of our NATO allies".

By British standards, Met. was NOT done at all well, sloppy procedures and routines, and second-class staff in the main. The outstandingly good ones always turned out to be the ones who had done the long course at the Met Office College, Shinfield Park.

Oh well!

BOAC

7th Nov 2011, 11:24

In my day we used to wait until the lights went out in the Boss's bedroom before we stuck the air horn through the letterbox. Is that what the OP was after?

NutLoose

7th Nov 2011, 11:35

Wasn't there a Staish in Cyprus asked to see some Airmans SLR, he handed it over and was promptly charged, tried it on another exercise, guard wouldn't hand it over, staish went to grab it and got a faceful of SLR Butt, they had to bring in a higher ranking officer to hear the charge and it was dismissed....

Ahh Bruggen on Taceval, best in Germany then it was realised we were on exercise more than the rest of NATO.

Phoning the other Squadron HAS's on exercise and asking XYZ to go to HAS so an so (you knew everyone) if they weren't there, you would ask well which Rigger is with you? etc and send them walkies..... hearing across the Airfield the Site Tannoy's saying ignore phone calls the system has been compromised.... phoning all the HAS's and telling them ignore the Tannoy, the system has been compromised..... :O:E:E

Such fun...

Coming off a day on Exercise to the block with 8 hours odd off, so having a corridor party before next day of exercise and someone burning down the police block behind us and no one noticed...... all interviewed by the police and they could not believe we never noticed something as minor as the police block going up in flames, but also that we were having a party during the break we got.. later hearing the fire section hosed down the rest of the building not on fire, "just to be on the safe side" :ok:

Sitting in a HAS after the Jags had been dragged back in and the winch starting up on it's own, dragging the rear one into the wall and down the HAS... watching the bod in charge of the HAS throwing chocks in front of the wheel that was happily jumping them and the pilot pulling on the ladder to try and stop it......... (Learnt what really happened years later)

Decontaminating Jets with brushes, plastic oversuits and buckets of soapy water..... and thinking is this the best we really have? same goes for the Bodge tape and plastic sheet decontam areas in hards.....

Happy days!!

Mactlsm1

7th Nov 2011, 11:52

Taceval Pt 1 ALWAYS started during the small hours didn't it
Er - No. I remember at ISL in the early 1980s that the Hooter went off and the TACEVAL Team arrived on a Sunday afternoon when we were playing cricket aginst a local civvy team, who we then had to expalin to that they had to leave pdq. Wouldn't have been too bad, just a game of cricket iterrupted - but no this was the same day as the annual raft race in the harbour at Lossie, so half of the stn were down there taking part or getting plastered watching. Strangley enough it seemed to take a long time to get the ac generated that day with not too many people being in a fit state to work, or of course being away for the weekend.

Still those were the days......

A few years later the Rapier unit I worked on was at the beck and call of many different agencies who could call us out, the USAF, SACEUR, The Regt Wg HQ, the Sqn Cdr etc. etc. And they did. I think the record at one time was 5 Pt 1 callouts within a 14 day period, and all of these WERE early morning jobs!

Mac

BEagle

7th Nov 2011, 11:57

In the less tense world of the Vulcan fleet in the late 1970s, we didn't have RAFG-style leave embargos when the Stn Cdr had a feeling in his water that Taceval might be due. We were, of course, required to leave a contact no. if away overnight or on leave....

On one occasion, I was on holiday in Menorca and had left the villa phone no. with our Ops Bod, as per SOPs. In marched the Taceval team, one of whom decided to test the contact procedure. "Service call please", asked the Ops Bod and waited whilst various clicks, buzzes and whirrs ensued.....

"Teesside Grain Company", announced a voice at the other end.

"Is (Flt Lt BEagle) there?"

"Who? Nay lad, never heard of him! CLICK!"

"Hmm, bugger", thought the Ops Bod - "It must have been a wrong number, I'll try again...."

"Hello?"

"(Flt Lt BEagle) please"

"Nay lad, it's the FOO**ING TEESSIDE GRAIN COMPANY! BUGGER OFF, WILL THA'!!"

By now the Taceval umpire was in stitches. We later discovered that the station operator had left off a zero or something...:rolleyes:

On another occasion I was staying with a lady friend and her mother in the service flat attached to rather a posh house by the Thames. The owner of which was rather like Margaret Rutherford - and who refused to allow an extension phone in the flat. So when the phone rang in the early hours of yet another exercise, she retorted "Young man, I do not take calls at such times of day. Kindly call back tomorrow!". By which time I was already on my way back to the house 4 of us shared, arriving back at about 1700 to find that they'd been on exercise for the past 36 hours.....:\

Taceval fun and games could fill volumes. Such as the infamous Battle of Burford High Street one night when the Aux Rock sqn at Brize spotted a Taceval car and gave chase, merrily firing blanks when it refused to stop until they nabbed it in the middle of Burford High Street in the early hours...... OC Admin Whinge was always having to placate annoyed locals after the enthusiastic Aux Rocks had been creating yet more mayhem during exercises.

Mind you, the true sport of kings was organising a station exercise and coming up with all manner of inspired villainy!

I'm sure there's a previous thread about this somewhere.

Mactlsm1

7th Nov 2011, 12:46

One of the youngest officers in the Air Force.

Age 54 now - 1982 age 15!

PN - You do mean 25 - don't you?

November4

7th Nov 2011, 13:09

Taceval Pt 1 ALWAYS started during the small hours didn't it

Not sure if it was Taceval or Stn ex or whatever but hooter went off at Lyneham around 1600 one time....just as I was cycling (fit and healthy days) back from standown. Luckily it went off just before I got to the gate. Turned round and spent a few hours hiding in a country pub. When I got back to camp the endex had been called as there were too few people to play the games properly or something.

Pontius Navigator

7th Nov 2011, 15:29

PN - You do mean 25 - don't you?

Ooops, brain fade or jet lag. Just flown in from Barbados.

Pontius Navigator

7th Nov 2011, 15:31

In 1969 we had one alert, 1430 on a Friday afternoon, only thing was it was real and not an exercise. We had two sqns on ground training days and would you believe none of them had been in the bar that lunchtime. :)

FantomZorbin

7th Nov 2011, 15:58

Wander00

7th Nov 2011, 16:30

There was one other "day time-ish" minival I recall - like it was yesterday. Mrs W and I had been married about 10 days and it was first week back at work. 6pm, and she was poised with pan about to be placed on cooker - Siren (initiated by Aunty Joan) started,and there I was "gone" (I was allowed to take my car not wait for the bus as I was Ground Defence Commander). I returned about 2300 - I swear Mrs W was still stood in same posture, except pan more in line with my head! "And where the hell do you think you have been" was the welcome - well she had only ever seen me called out by phone from my house off-base before!

Krystal n chips

7th Nov 2011, 16:33

" In RAFG, particularly when General Haig was SACEUR and concerned about a Warsaw Pact attack at very short notice over a weekend or bank holiday "

Which must have made him unique I suppose....alas, along with the rest of RAFG, I confess to not being overly concerned about the Warsaw Pact during the times mentioned...strangely..:D

Pontius Navigator

7th Nov 2011, 18:10

PN
Remember that well! Lots of faces with question marks on foreheads:confused: I also remember that OC Chips got a lot of flak for not 'warning' the rest of the station as it was normal for the Catering Sqn to receive large quantities of steak for the aircrew feeder in advance of exercises ... allegedly:E

That be the Bomber Command 4-hour eating cycle then. The young PN, when weight gain was unimportant and no Mrs PNagger around) remembers a memorable Micky Finn to Ballykelly. It went something like this:

Hooter, crew muster, breakfast 0500, early lunch around 1030, disperse - inflight sarnis 1115, BK for post flight 1300, afternoon tea around 1700 (ham and chips), stack for the night, 1930 beer steak and chips in the OM, 2300 supper - more ham and chips. Regular food intake on day 2, then day 3 on state 0600, 0700 breakfast, 1100 eat the first two crews lunch (we were 3rd and 4th), 1200 scramble - inflight, 1600 land and post-flight and in time for the beer swill at 1800.

Magic.

or the time at ISL when they deployed all the rations forward. Huge block of mouse trap, and I mean huge, appeared on the counter in flying clothing. Now what did aircrew have in those days :)?

After 3 days very small piece of cheese returned to stores. Sqn fund had to pay for the cheese.

Rossian

7th Nov 2011, 18:35

At Nordholz I had lots of fun flying with the same crew on 3 consecutive days, 10 hrs each trip,and finally having to spend Friday morning with the same crew in the sim!!"
In Ops when the alarm sounded, evryone responded to "Luft alarm luft alarm luft alarm" by sitting up straight behind their desks, putting on gas mask and tin lid then after a suitable check by the senior man that all were suitably attired, taking them off and getting on with the job. This at a time when we in the RAF were torturing ourselves by wearing all the kit for hours (and days in some cases).

The Ancient Mariner

Rossian

7th Nov 2011, 18:38

I think taxy dual had it right there, alledgedly, the Staish had to strip off and approach the helo and was spirited away.
I never understood why the man seemed to enjoy humiliating people in front of their subordinates.

The Ancient Mariner

fantom

7th Nov 2011, 19:53

The bürgermeister (mayor) at Brüggen was always given advance notice of taceval so the whole village knew; we were the only ones not to know when the hooter was going to hoot.

Buggah.

Rigga

7th Nov 2011, 20:05

TaxiDual:
"AFAIR, wasn't it 'The Bear', when AOC Training Group in Support Command, who did it to Valley in the late '70's? "

He did the same at Shawbury too - (but the staish didnt need to strip off AFAIK) no GDT training and no guns because it was Training Command. I remember running around the Armoury trying to stun the ruddy intruders (on the Armoury roof) with stones and "Live" Pick-Axe handles!

polecat2

7th Nov 2011, 20:47

Decontaminating Jets with brushes, plastic oversuits and buckets of soapy water..... and thinking is this the best we really have? same goes for the Bodge tape and plastic sheet decontam areas in hards.....

I remember we used to marvel at the wisdom of the decision to use white Bodge tape instead of the usual black stuff as it would reflect the heat of the nuclear blast.

dkh51250

7th Nov 2011, 23:08

PN, The Friday afternoon fiasco,was that the one that involved a recently liberated country?

taxydual

8th Nov 2011, 06:16

More TACEVAL Tales here

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/261334-taceval-tales.html

Pontius Navigator

8th Nov 2011, 08:06

PN, The Friday afternoon fiasco,was that the one that involved a recently liberated country?

dkh, yes, if by recent you mean in the '90s and now a member of NATO, yes.

foldingwings

8th Nov 2011, 13:29

Going back to the OP, I think that the incident referred to did result in the introduction of Mineval, Maxeval and UK Taceval (rather than NATO) on Strike Command bases! Prior to that only RAFG/NATO etc ran such a regime.

Certainly, when I arrived on 12 at Honington in '74, after a first tour on XV at Laarbruch, I was surprised to be free of the Taceval circuit! However, there were plenty of JMCs etc to keep one on one's toes!

UK Taceval etc then arrived and we all jumped onto the circuit again!

Foldie:hmm:

sitigeltfel

8th Nov 2011, 15:05

Largeson, when AOC 18 Gp, was always known to pull tricks. At ISK one year he briefed his ADC to leave his unmarked briefcase in the hall of the Officers' Mess.

AVM Lagesen, despite his upright bearing, had a sense of humour. While in the Ops room at Bawtry during a Taceval he collared an Ops clerk and said, "Any chance of a coffee for the boss?"
He was about the only one who didn't turn purple when the clerk replied, "I don't think so sir, S/L Ops only drinks tea!

Pontius Navigator

8th Nov 2011, 16:32

AVM Lagesen, despite his upright bearing, had a sense of humour. While in the Ops room at Bawtry during a Taceval he collared an Ops clerk and said, "Any chance of a coffee for the boss?"
He was about the only one who didn't turn purple when the clerk replied, "I don't think so sir, S/L Ops only drinks tea!

When Phil was first there as Wg Cdr Ops he had noted that UK based MBF had priority on the El Adem range. One Groupex we planned a UK route as normal but were instructed to carry mapping out to 2000 odd miles.

Once established on the profile Group started to issue orders. The first order was for a flight to Akrotiri via El Adem and drop 3 x 100lb PB. The next aircraft was ordered to make its drop at Jurby. So it went on, alternate aircraft were sent to Cyprus. We drew a Jurby slot. IIRC the flight out took about 5-45. When they landed they were instructed to return the following day dropping at El Adem once more. They had absolute priority and it really put NEAFs nose out of joint. They all made it home but there was a lot of teeth sucking and quick glances towards Manston. They did about 6-15 or more.

One of his first Groupex coincided with my arrival at Coningsby. The place was like a morgue. On the far side were 3 QRA ac and the only people in the bar were ATC. Phil had diverted the entire group to landaways and recovery the next day. He must have known there would be no Mick the following day.

Waddo Plumber

8th Nov 2011, 18:12

Was Lagerson AOC 18 as well as AOC 1 Gp? I remember him from Waddo as AOC in the middle 70s.

Over the lights

8th Nov 2011, 19:42

Yes. He was AOC 1 Group when I was on 51 Sqn and caught up with me again in 18 Group when I returned to the Kipper Fleet when tourex. He was a hard man, but fair.

Over the lights

8th Nov 2011, 19:47

When TACEVAL was first introduced I was a supporter - we had become a very much 'office hours' air force. Sadly, it grew very much too big for its boots, and instead of being a means to an end it became a means unto itself. There was even a Taceval Trophy!

I recall the TACEVAL mafia arriving in Malta in the mid-1970s and calling off their simulated intruders when it was revealed to them that the guards at RAF Luqa were armed - for real!

Pontius Navigator

8th Nov 2011, 21:44

Waddo Plumber, he was AOC 18 Gp after 1 Gp as AOC 18 Gp was a senior dual hatted post as AOC 18 Gp and also ComAirEastlant and ComAirChan both 3* posts whereas AOC 1 Gp was a mere 2*. He retired prematurely with, IIRC, a heart murmur.

Fair? He was also a bully. As I went through a door he caught me with a double fisted punch to the stomach and then bid me good morning. I was speechless ...............

PS

Bully was perhaps a bit strong for that era, shall we say a robust sense of humour?

The Blue Parrot

10th Nov 2011, 04:34

Mactlsm1

Ah, the Lossie Raft Race 1983, I remember it well. Most sections entered a raft, the race took place on a Sunday during the summer, most of the town and the camp were there (those playing or watching cricket excepted of course) and the ale flowed from the numerous waterside establishments, namely the Clifton at the time. The race itself normally lasted an hour or so with most, if not all, entrants heading for the bars afterwards to either celebrate or drown (excuse the pun) their sorrows. Circa 16:00 on that Sunday afternoon, the Hooter went off and most, if not all, trudged back to camp to report for TacEval Part 1. It would be a good estimate to say that at least 60% of the base was over the legal drink driving limit but not a problem for those who lived on base or on the Lossie patch. I for one, reported for work in the Radar Bay, certainly well over the limit and was told to stand down once my name was taken as having reported so no major drama!
As was the way with most TacEval Part 1s at ISL (this being the exception on a weekend), the Camp Hairdresser (aren't they all?), sorry, the Unit Hairdresser generally knew when the Team were due to hit either us or ISK as they were always accommodated at the 8 Acres in Elgin and news travelled fast! Happy Days!:eek: