View Full Version : The Ghost of Nigger, Gibson's dog ?


500N
2nd Nov 2011, 06:58
Since the name of Guy Gibson's dog often comes up in these threads, I thought this was topical.

The Ghost of Nigger, Gibson's dog ?

Ghost of the Dambusters dog: Picture emerges showing long-dead labrador among group at base where raid was launched | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2056353/Ghost-Dambusters-dog-Picture-emerges-showing-long-dead-labrador-group-base-raid-launched.html)



Buster Hyman
2nd Nov 2011, 08:31
Well, that explains the white sheet it was wearing....

green granite
2nd Nov 2011, 08:41
From the Torygraph: Guy Gibson: ghost of Dambusters dog 'found' at airbase - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/world-war-2/8863954/Guy-Gibson-ghost-of-Dambusters-dog-found-at-airbase.html)

BEagle
2nd Nov 2011, 08:49
At the end of the movie, as Richard Todd and Michael Redgrave are seen talking together, a black dog can be seen running around in the distance.

However, no black dogs were known to exist on the aerodrome at the time of filming.

Motleycallsign
2nd Nov 2011, 09:56
Just what colour was 'Nigger'? The Mail article states 'chocolate' whilst the 'Telegraph' says 'black'. There was a paint colour 'nigger brown' in old watercolour paint tins of my youth.

Re the photo in the Mail article; is there not an arm holding the dog? or is that a paranormal phenomenan too?

fantom
2nd Nov 2011, 10:10
I had always wondered about this picture; seems he might have replaced Nigger as here they are with the VC:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/minlgw/CrewPhotos008.jpg

500N
2nd Nov 2011, 10:53
fantom
That is a very interesting photo, I hadn't noticed the VC on the dog.


In the photo, it looks like Guy Gibson is only wearing his DFC but not his DSO or VC, yet he had earned one of his DSO's by this time and the the VC is on the dog.

Anyone comment ?

langleybaston
2nd Nov 2011, 11:28
I frequently visit Woodhall Spa and sometimes eat/drink at Petwood Hotel, ex- the Mess.

The story is well known in the town. I first heard it in the super bookshop, where Nigger was said to have been present at the unveiling of the memorial in the town centre, but failed to appear when the photos were developed.

People will believe what they want to believe. For myself, I have had a few experiences which are difficult to rationalise, so I suspend disblief.

Certainly when I was P Met O 1 Gp. Bawtry c. 1982 with oversight of Scampton [and 10 other RAF bases] for their Met. the grave was well tended and clearly marked.

By the way the "VC" on the dog only vaguely resembles the real thing, totally unconvincing, came out of a Christmas cracker more like!

Navaleye
2nd Nov 2011, 11:42
Can't remember seeing a dog at the end. Could it be the animal that played the role of Nigger?

As for ghosts, well I have one in my house and I've seen her, heard her and felt her. I see no reason why a dog cannot become a ghost although I find the evidence a little bit light in this case.

I've heard lots of stories of haunted airfields and I think there was a thread on this a couple of years ago.

The theory on how they come about is very straightforward. The heart generates a 12 volt 60Hz electric current, this powers the brain/mind and all its various subsystems. On death, the first law of thermodynamics says that this bio-electrical current should be dispersed into the local environment. In some circumstances, this law can get circumvented and this bio electrical energy does not disperse, it congeals and becomes self aware. That's easy bit.

682al
2nd Nov 2011, 12:43
Perhaps Gibson awarded the dog an Iron Cross - if the stories are correct it probably did more to damage morale at Scampton than the Luftwaffe?

Buster Hyman
2nd Nov 2011, 13:08
I had always wondered about this picture; seems he might have replaced Nigger as here they are with the VC:
:ooh: Dare we speculate as to what he called that dog???? :E:E:E:ouch::suspect:

grandfer
2nd Nov 2011, 13:36
Glad to read that the 2 "Papers" mentioned actually gave Gibson's dog its correct name & not got around it by not mentioning it at all or just calling it "Gibson's dog".
:mad::mad:

Fake Sealion
2nd Nov 2011, 13:53
Can't remember seeing a dog at the end. Could it be the animal that played the role of Nigger?

As BEagle said earlier. Go to the last couple of minutes of the film. Gibson and Wallis are talking outside of SHQ(?) - look over Gibson's shoulder and about 200 yards distant a black dog can be seen running around on an open grass area.

As you say because films are usually shot out of sequence it is probably the dog they used to "play" Nigger just having a bit of exercise..... but then again....:eek:

muppetofthenorth
2nd Nov 2011, 14:15
I was sceptical when I first heard BEagle mention it....

...got out my dvd and looked. There is a 'black smudge' over "Gibson"s shoulder.

It appears to wander over behind the trees on his left.
Could concievably be a dog...

I'll try and do some screen grabs.


EDIT: Here we go, some pics.
http://s1-04.twitpicproxy.com/photos/large/439744332.jpg
http://s1-04.twitpicproxy.com/photos/large/439744755.jpg

On the far right of the screen, between the trees. When you view the video, it definitely walks like a dog.

knowitall
2nd Nov 2011, 14:56
langleybaston

"The story is well known in the town. I first heard it in the super bookshop, where Nigger was said to have been present at the unveiling of the memorial in the town centre, but failed to appear when the photos were developed."

It's St Hugh's prep school choir, it was a perfectly normal black lab that for some reason fancied being in the shot, the photo's developed normally and the dog is in them

this is also the same photo that for some unbeknown reason is shown in grainy black and white in the mail, when it was taken in perfectly sharp in focus colour

Fake Sealion
2nd Nov 2011, 14:56
Just looked at my copy too. Yes there is a dog walking in the background.
Also spotted 3 seconds after the first close up of Todd is a bloke walking from behind a building, he sees the filming in progress and promptly turns and walks away!:D

langleybaston
2nd Nov 2011, 15:08
Knowitall:

I gather that you equate the choir plus dog shot with the occasion of the unveiling: I did not know that, but it seems likely.

The fact is I was regaled with the story of 'Nigger at the unveiling' quite unprompted, and have heard it since.

It is a nice tale, and some believe it.

BEagle
2nd Nov 2011, 15:42
As BEagle said earlier. Go to the last couple of minutes of the film. Gibson and Wallis are talking outside of SHQ(?) - look over Gibson's shoulder and about 200 yards distant a black dog can be seen running around on an open grass area.

Another version of the story is that, after the black dog was noticed in shot, people asked around the station "Did you see that - it must have been Nigger?". To which some erk replied "Can't have been - there aren't any n*****s at Scampton!"....:=

Wensleydale
2nd Nov 2011, 17:09
Call me an old cynic.....:confused:

Ghosts at Scampton always seem to gain publicity whenever there appears to be a threat to their heritage centre. I wonder what the source of the recent story is...........?

just another jocky
2nd Nov 2011, 17:09
motn - in your screengrabs, it looks like Todd & Redgrave are in front of a film of the station (look at the sharp line of Todd's SD hat). I don't have the movie, but is there a wider shot of them 'in scene'? Not that it matters, except that if so, the rear scene shot was taken separately & deliberately with the dog in it, rather than no-one noticing it as they were all focussed on the 2 actors. :confused:

DC10RealMan
2nd Nov 2011, 17:18
500N.

The photograph of Guy Gibson and Nigger was taken in late 1942-early 1943 when Gibson was the CO of 106 Squadron at RAF Coningsby and before the awarding of his Victoria Cross for the dams raid of May 1943

sisemen
2nd Nov 2011, 17:42
The picture, taken in the 1980s, shows a Labrador among a school group at a memorial to the Dambusters, close to where Gibson's dog was buried.

Nigger was allegedly killed outside the main gate of RAF Scampton and is buried outside the hangar at Scampton (2 or 3??). The 617 Sqn memorial is at Woodhall Spa a mere 15 miles away.

Bloody nimble these dead dogs.

BEagle
2nd Nov 2011, 19:11
Bloody nimble these dead dogs.

763 mph, wasn't it Andy?

;) (G323)

I don't have the movie...

What? WHAT?? Suggest a visit to the 'South American River' DVD store to sort that out - sharpish!

ShyTorque
2nd Nov 2011, 20:01
The "ghost hunters" might like to stake out the Officers' Mess at Scampton. Especially the bar cellar area. During my time there (late 1988-9) the staff did not like going down there alone.

Also, a member of the Reds was Station Duty Officer and saw a figure in WW2 flying kit standing by the ante room fireplace, whilst doing his locking-up round around midnight. It shook him up.

Having said that, seeing as he was in the Reds, having to do the SDO duty was probably quite a shock, too. ;)

muppetofthenorth
2nd Nov 2011, 20:49
jaj, no, that's the effect of my camera taking a picture of an LCD screen, they are seen both wide and closeup and it's clear they were really 'there', as it were.


And you can't really be a poster in this section and not have your own copy, just as you can't not have seen TopGun, BoB, et al...

GeeRam
2nd Nov 2011, 21:06
The "ghost hunters" might like to stake out the Officers' Mess at Scampton. Especially the bar cellar area. During my time there (late 1988-9) the staff did not like going down there alone.

Also, a member of the Reds was Station Duty Officer and saw a figure in WW2 flying kit standing by the ante room fireplace, whilst doing his locking-up round around midnight. It shook him up.

I now keep 'an open mind' about such things as well after seeing something I can't easily explain and similar to the above, at the old USAAF base at Earls Colne late one night about 20 years ago.
Subsequently found out that a number of others have seen something similar there over the years :uhoh:

Finningley Boy
2nd Nov 2011, 21:42
Perhaps the earliest sighting of the ghost dog was about 1947, a Corporal Steward apparently chased it up the stairs of the Officer's Mess one evening, following which it disappeared.

FB:)

muppetofthenorth
2nd Nov 2011, 21:47
Friend of mine back in UAS days took some pictures of the Halton mess when there for some reason or other.
One frame, perfectly normal, if poorly framed image of the front of the mess.
Next frame, taken seconds later, the mess is obscured by waves of fog-like mist/smoke with several visible faces.

More than a tad odd.

jamesdevice
2nd Nov 2011, 22:15
Before you get too hung up on whether its Gibson's dog or not, be aware that Lincolnshire has an ancient tradition of sightings of a ghostly black dog, known locally as "Hairy Jack"
East Anglia has a similar - though more malevolent dog known as Black Shuck, while Yorkshire (and other pats of the north has the Barghest (spellings vary locally

HTB
3rd Nov 2011, 08:56
FB

The steward is not alone in this - I too have chased some old dogs up the mess stairs (spookily at Scampton in the 70'/early 80s). Problem was disposing of them the following morning.

Mister B

Wensleydale
3rd Nov 2011, 09:27
There are lots of stories about ghostly dogs in Lincolnshire: one surfaced at our local recently.

The landlord had been doing some research into the rumours that the dog of an owner who lived there over 100 years ago had died after getting its tail trapped in the pub door - the wound went septic, and despite having the tail amputated, the dog died. Legend was that the ghost of the dog haunted the pub every year on the aniversary of this event. Last year, the current landlord stayed up to see if the ghostly dog appeared, and at midnight he heard a faint growl and rattling by the door. He turned to see the ghost of a large slavering lurcher looking at him. The dog spoke....

"I have come back for that which was taken from me... I cannot rest until I am once more made whole".

The Landlord replied...

"Sorry - I am not allowed to re-tail spirits after 10:30".


Hat, coat etc....

Finningley Boy
3rd Nov 2011, 15:15
FB

The steward is not alone in this - I too have chased some old dogs up the mess stairs (spookily at Scampton in the 70'/early 80s). Problem was disposing of them the following morning.

Mister B


:E:ok:

FB:)

Lukeafb1
3rd Nov 2011, 16:00
Marginal thread drift.

A previous thread on the 'Dam Busters' film mentions that when Wallis is seen getting into a car at one of the airfields, a Canberra is seen reflected in the car's rear window. I've never been able to see it, but maybe I'm blind!

Evanelpus
3rd Nov 2011, 17:51
Call me an old cynic.....

Wensleydale, you are an old cynic!

Maxibon
4th Nov 2011, 18:47
Shy Torque, we must have been at Scampton at the same time: I was holding on the CFS Bulldog Sqn at that time. There was a barman in the Mess, called Spike I believe, who closed the bar one night and as he went through the double bend in the corridor behind the bar looked up and saw a chap in WW2 flying kit at the top of the stairs. He fled to the guardroom without stopping.

I bought some haunted airfield books around that time and spent some time looking for spooks around the place. Went to Bircham Newton esterday with Maxibon Jr on a week in Norfolk and got into the haunted squash court. Nothing there except an over-excited kid and his 7 year old son.

500N
5th Nov 2011, 13:17
The Dambuster film was on today, of course had to watch it again.

Didn't see the Canberra Bomber in the rear window or the dog running across in the background.

Might have to look at Youtube to see them.

.

B Fraser
5th Nov 2011, 13:54
slight thread drift...

My first mother in law had a huge cat, the breed is known as a Maine Coon. She called it Mandela.