View Full Version : Questions Regarding Post War USN
Jane-DoH
1st Nov 2011, 13:40
As I understand it, post WW2, the USN almost got scuttled via the claims of the US Army and USAAF that
There would be no need for a Marine Corps as there would be no amphibious landings ever again
The US Army and USAAF could do everything the Navy could, so there would be no need for the Navy
The USAAF/USAF both roundly disliked carriers because they were air-assets they could not control, and post-war they wanted control of everything. They also believed the B-36 was their ultimate weapon -- 10,000 pounds of bombs (or a nuke) while flying 10,000 miles and able to cruise at high-altitude and possess a sufficient degree of maneuverability up high (granted, this was because a number of planes would either barely be able to fly level, let alone maneuver, or would just stall out in the thin air) to avoid it's destruction.
The USN decided to pursue a super-carrier, the USS United States instead of develop a sea-plane bomber (which it would later do in the form of the P6M) as they felt the USAF would just move to take sea-plane aviation.
Now here's my question:
While seaplanes were assets that could be controlled by an any service, seaplane-tenders (which seaplanes depend on) are Naval assets just as much as Aircraft Carriers. Why didn't anybody notice that?
Jane,
After WWII the US Army had approximately 127,000 ships, boats and water craft of their own. The US Air Force also had their own boats. Tenders are small and could be owned by either component of the armed forces.
Jane-DoH
1st Nov 2011, 14:46
hval
After WWII the US Army had approximately 127,000 ships, boats and water craft of their own.
Why did the US Army have so many ships and boats? Were any of them combat capable?
The US Air Force also had their own boats. Tenders are small and could be owned by either component of the armed forces.
Understood. Then why didn't the USAF just push for ownership of the carriers :E
US Army had troop and cargo ships (1,500), landing craft, hospital ships, cable ships, port repair ships, aircraft repair ships and many others.
Indeed why didn't the USAF take over the USN? Did Admiral Rickovers role with nuclear submarines play a small part? Not that this will be the main reason.
Jane-DoH
1st Nov 2011, 15:24
hval
US Army had troop and cargo ships (1,500), landing craft, hospital ships, cable ships, port repair ships, aircraft repair ships and many others.
But nothing like Destroyers, Cruisers, Frigates and so forth?
Indeed why didn't the USAF take over the USN?
Good question, though this is possibly a good thing they didn't.
Did Admiral Rickovers role with nuclear submarines play a small part?
His work on nuclear power for submarines started in 1949 so I don't know.
Jane,
But nothing like Destroyers, Cruisers, Frigates and so forth?
No. Nothing of that ilk.
Jane-DoH
1st Nov 2011, 15:55
hval
No. Nothing of that ilk.
So combat ships were Navy, non combatants could belong to anybody? Did this rule apply prior to WW2, or just during WW2 and after?
Also that same rule apply for the Royal Navy, Royal Army, and Royal Air Force?
Mad (Flt) Scientist
1st Nov 2011, 16:45
The RAF had air-sea rescue launches and I believe the army operated various transport type vessels, so in essence yes, the same (or similar) rules.
edit to say "major combat vessels" were the navy's - I suspect many of the non-navy vessels had some form of armament, if only an AA gun or whatever.
PhilipG
1st Nov 2011, 17:02
I think that I am correct that the US Air Force was the US Army Air Force at the end of WWll, so possibly the Army Air Force Boats etc are counted in with the US Army's?
PhilipG,
you are correct that the USAF was previously the USAAF (Army).
The boats are separate. I don't have accurate figures for the USAF vessels though.
Jane-DoH
1st Nov 2011, 18:12
So even before WW2 the Army had boats and transport ships that were non-combatant in nature?
Jane,
Yes. The US Army did have ships and vessels pre WW II. Just not so many. The Corps of Engineers for instance maintained waterways in the United States. They had their own fleet of vessels. They were also responsible for landing craft, engineering works adjacent to, and over, waterways etc.
Most army boats/ ships were small items; the odd landing craft, river boats, tenders etc. There were also cargo ships controlled by the US Army for supplying garrisons.
The Army Transportation Corps was started in July 1942. The 24 Hospital ships, for example, became hospital ships 1943, 1944 or 1945. The ATC had many other vessels as well
GreenKnight121
1st Nov 2011, 21:58
This document sh[/URL]ould be of interest for the immediate pre-WW2 period, as well as background info.
Water Transportation - U.S. Army, 1939-1942, ASF (http://cgsc.cdmhost.com/cdm/singleitem/collection/p4013coll8/id/2245)
[URL="http://cgsc.cdmhost.com/cdm/singleitem/collection/p4013coll8/id/2245"]
As an example, In 1914 the Army Transport Service owned 18 ocean-going vessels consisting of an Atlantic and a Pacific fleet together with a Philippine inter-island service.
The Harbor Boat Service in the same year comprised 130 owned vessels.
In 1939 the Army Transport Service owned some 32 transports, while the Harbor Boat Service consisted of 300 boats as of July 1.
Brilliant. Well done GreenKnight 121
SASless
3rd Nov 2011, 19:08
At one time the US Army had more ships thand did the Navy...and more aircraft than did the Air Force it is reported.
Now days the Army still operates a large fleet of boats and ships.....and a few helicopters.
GreenKnight121
4th Nov 2011, 06:57
During WW2 the US government purchased a large number of passenger ships and freighters, and "drafted" even more.
The vast majority of these were placed under US Army control, but continued to operate with their previous civilian crews, plus a few Army senior enlisted, warrant officers, and officers as supervisory & control crews. These moved large amounts of personnel and cargo between "secure" ports.
This freed the USN's "combat transports" for actual work to/from/within combat zones.
However, a considerable number of landing craft that were assigned to invasions and support for combat operations (especially in the Pacific) were owned/operated by the US Army... alongside identical vessels in the USN.