EK hiring DEC's for 2012.

[A380 Jockey]

Heard at a watering hole that EK plans to aggressively start re connecting with prospective DEC's (777's and 380's ) so as to set the tone for a first/second quarter 2012 DEC hiring spree. Heard numbers needed would be in the vicinity of 60 DEC's for the 777's and close to 45 for the 380's.
I can't even begin to imagine the turmoil that would ensue within the EK ranks if this was even half true.
But this source rarely is far from the truth. So I reckon its gonna be a wait and watch game.
And boy, will it be a game changer!
:)

[Fart Master]

Whilst many may agree with your sentiments..........FFS, this topic has been done to death, and, no, it won't be a game changer in the way that you perceive.

The reality is that EK will continue regardless of whether they hire DEC's or not. The management don't care whether the pilots are happy or not with the DEC issue or any other issue for that matter. As long as the a/c go from A to B and back to A, that's all that matters to them.

Boatloads of FO's will not leave thereby crippling the system, and even if they did they would merely offer a sweetner to keep sufficient numbers in Dubai.

Everybody needs to spare themselves the angst that this issue brings up every time because it will make no difference to the final decision that the mis-management make.

[littlejet]

How will they "re connect"?

[A380 Jockey]

I guess they have numbers from applications over the years,littlejet. And they DO have a whole databank of old applications(and some newer ones!).
That's my view.

[littlejet]

Oh, I assumed they would :mad::mad: I have a sick mind.

[Patty747400]

If they would I'm not surprised. Shutting out half of the pilot population when you are in great need of them might not work in the long run.
But, as I've said before, when you look at their requirements they won't get many (qualified) applicants.

[Schnowzer]

A hook in the water from a guy that needs to move on from SIA. The last time it was 'this fall' checking his posting history!

[Wizofoz]

It may well be true.

The number of FOs meeting the current upgrade requirements is dwindling.

the SENSIBLE thing to do would be to revise the bloody silly hours requirements for upgrade, but that would mean admitting they weren't necessary in the first place.

And we couldn't have that...

[ruserious]

Yeah but Wiz, it is not about sensible, it is about lack of training capacity and trainers. DEC's mean less courses, than upgrading and taking in new FO's

[Fart Master]

ruserious,

On paper, yes, the training requirement drops, but as the company found out the last time, the extra training required to bring many of the DEC's up to standard wiped out much of the training time saved

[woofer]

Fart Master

With reference to your statement I think the 'blame' (if one could call it so) lies with recruitment for not vetting properly during the selection process.

Having said that, I acknowledge that a regional pilot applying for a DEC position might find it harder than another with international experience. However it's up to the individual to hit the books and make an effort. I am a TRI (not with EK by the way) and can notice a huge difference in attitude nowadays compared to a few years back. Nowadays many new joiners, both cadets and experienced pilots, are not ready to put some effort and at times I get the feeling that they want, or expect you, to spoon them through the transition or upgrade

[xbleedstart]

F/M is absolutely right. Pilots will not pack up and leave in masses. Just look at the productivity pay. I hardly hear a word on this subject. We just accept it and carry on.
TC and the boys are either shaking their heads in disbelief or laughing their a@@ off at all of us!

[Netset]

Training requirements drops?

Two friends of mine joined Emirates (within a year of each other). One rated on the A330 and the other on A320. Both had to do a full type rating when they joined Emirates. I honestly don't understand why as the A320 guy could just undergo a 5 day or so CCQ course and the other just ground training and sim check ride.

[Wizofoz]

Net,

Because there is a VERY "Emirates" way of doing things. The aircraft type is the easy part. The course is still challenging for guys with previous experience on type.

[cuberoute]

Spoke to recruitment TODAY.No talk of DECs . Lots of good applicants still coming in .Business as usual .:ok:

[Oblaaspop]

Well A380 Jok, I hate to say it, but I believe that on this occasion, your buddy is way off the truth!

We aren't even confident in taking (apart from 1 type rated guy) F/O's directly on to the A380, so what makes him think that the powers that be would entrust the 'vagina' to 45 quality unknown DEC's? Surely IF DEC's were on the cards, they would go onto the minibus first?..... Doesn't really stack up does it?

So that little nugget alone washes away any credibility the original rumour may have had!

Not only that, but in order to ramp up recruitment from suitably qualified DEC's for 2 months time, wouldn't we be advertising like crazy by now, or would we keep it a secret again just like the same rumour at the same time last year (and the year before) would have us believe??

Never say never to DEC's, but this rumour is a non starter I'm afraid.

[Boeing 777-300ER]

Lots of good applicants still coming in .Business as usual

cuberoute, as Wizofoz stated, it has to do with how many are presently eligible for upgrade and not the number of applications submitted. Two different matters I reckon.

[MagicCarpet]

The US airlines are about to hire in a major way...this is one way to get rid of the 300+ yanks who are working here, mostly as FO's.

True. American Airlines just ordered a lot of airplanes and hasn’t hired in 10 years while a good percentage of their pilots will be hitting age 65 in the next few years. Yeah, yeah, I know. . . upgrade takes twice as long and half the cabin crew look like a cross between Hillary Clinton & Angela Merkel. Still, Dubai isn’t Dallas. I’m guessing a lot of Yanks will bail as soon as things turn around back in the States.



I honestly don't understand why as the A320 guy could just undergo a 5 day or so CCQ course and the other just ground training and sim check ride.

Shhhh. . . . that month in Toulouse is like a paid vacation for those guys.

[A380 Jockey]

Giving my dues to all who have contributed (both positively and then the likes of schnowzer alike) all I am able to say at present is that this is very very close to the truth!
Like I said the planned interview dates may be the first/second quarter of 2012. Gives them plenty of time to advertise and prepare.
Snoozer, FYI i am NOT with SIA. Whatever gave you that impression. And IF I was in fact with SIA, why on god's green earth would I leave the safety,comfort and lifestyle of singapore for dubai. AND get a paycut in the process!
No offence meant for all the wannabe's but this is a no brainer.
I was simply stating something I felt Ppruners might be interested in. Could be wrong there too. But the chances are very low.
No interest whatsoever in the development. Just something which came up and I decided to share. For god's sake don't split hair with everything you hear and then twist it to suit your thinking. Please..
Grow up and pick up info from every orifice you can.
Cause you will need it.
;)

[Schnowzer]

Why bother rising to the bait? We didn't:D

[glofish]

Funny how it was portrayed that experienced T7 EK pilots would have a hell of a time to learn shaking that sidestick of the whale, although being familiar with the sops and the dealings of the company, but now some outsiders should be able to do that much better and faster.

Oh, I forgot, they would be looking only for 340 experienced astronauts.

That shouldn't be difficult, they run around in huge numbers ..... and those skippers would certainly be better suited than all our FOs already flying the 340.

Get real!

[fourgolds]

Perhaps at Qantas , fed up , looking for a change . They have 380, s

[glofish]

True. I forgot the decorated.

It certainly looked like a homecoming photo of a team of astronauts ....

[Boeing 777-300ER]

Reading this thread, or any other thread dealing with EK DEC's or any other airline for that matter, gets me really baffled and confused why people get so emotional.

When I joined my former airline (an EU and unionised airline) as a cadet and later as a F/O there was nowhere written down on the contract my right for upgrade or time frame. The only place where the minimum requirements for upgrade where written down was the training manual. Not in my contract or collective agreement.

When I was due for upgrade, they employed DEC's. When us guys ready for upgrade spoke to management in the presence of ALPA executives, the answer was a simple two word "company exigencies". As we were not really happy with the answer we appraoched an Industrial Relations lawyer and his answer was "You don't have a case here". Were we pissed off? Yes we were.

We got our upgrade and some of us by time left for a better salary or life style. And no we didn't join other airlines as F/O's because its the right and moral way to do. And I am sure that many EK F/O's will do the same when they are upgraded to the left seat and want to leave Dubai for greener pastures. They will apply for DEC positions and rightly so. One should never leave the left seat for a right seat, and if he or she does so it's at their own risk.

So I think its time for a reality check guys as airlines are competing in a cuthroat industry and their first priority is pounds/dollars/euros and not what is the right or correct or moral thing to please us employees.

[donpizmeov]

Didn't they stop hiring in the 2008/2009 financial year? I wonder if that is coming home to roost now as that would have been that magic 3yrs ago.
At least all the FOs in the company now knew to expect DECs when they joined. All the Fos that got shafted have been upgraded by now I think.

Time will tell. I do hope they use the fellas already in the company before looking outside.

New Tomcat you might get another chance after all.

the Don

[new tomcat]

Don, why would I want to work more hours for less pay to live in the sand?
Count me out but thanks for thinking of me.
I would think Emirates is going to have a tough time filling the DEC positions. Hardly any qualified, international, widebody captain is going to leave their airline to go to the middle east and slave 95 hours for Emirates. They will get the 2nd tier and the hard working FOs will have to babysit the pilots that took their jobs. That will be a site to see and I wish I could be a fly on the cockpit wall there.
The poor Emirates FOs get shafted again.

[Wizofoz]

I would think Emirates is going to have a tough time filling the DEC positions. Hardly any qualified, international, widebody captain is going to leave their airline to go to the middle east and slave 95 hours for Emirates.

Good money says you are wrong there, Tom. And the statement shows how out of touch you are with the reality of the Global job market.

[new tomcat]

Do you really think any widebody LH pilots are going to leave Germany to go slave for Emirates? How about Delta or Air France pilots?
For the record on the last round of DECs how many pilots came from top airlines that were flying international, widebodies as captains for top tier airlines? I know some pilots that Emirates got were flying at Delta but they were not flying internationally and some not even widebodies.
So Emirates is going to recruit DECs and I will bet you a month's salary that they will not get 10% of the total DECs that are currently flying international widebodies for a good airline. Care to take that bet Wizo?
We all know QF won't scab (DEC) after all they went through in 1989. Don't take our jobs but we can take yours.

[Wizofoz]

Do you really think any widebody LH pilots are going to leave Germany to go slave for Emirates? How about Delta or Air France pilots?


Arr...now the goal post shifting starts. Who said anything about Germany, Air France or Delta (though we have Pilots from all three).

For the record on the last round of DECs how many pilots came from top airlines that were flying international, widebodies as captains for top tier airlines?

Again, not what you said. You said:-

Hardly any qualified, international, widebody captain is going to leave their airline to go to the middle east and slave 95 hours for Emirates.

Was there a single mention of Europe, America or "Top Tier" in any statement you made?

Some of the best pilots i've come across fly here and are from places like Ethiopia,Malasia, Brazil and Uraguy, and there are many qualifed, experienced wide body pilots from those places who would gladly come here, and I have a feeling a boat load of QF guys will soon be following.

...Or don't they count??

So Emirates is going to recruit DECs and I will bet you a month's salary that they will not get 10% of the total DECs that are currently flying international widebodies for a good airline.

Not what you said, not what I bet. Are you willing to stick with your original statement, or is this an admission it was wrong?

And are you saying only pilots from what you define as a "Good" Airline qualify as "Good" pilots?

We all know QF won't scab (DEC) after all they went through in 1989.

QANTAS weren't involved in '89 (but you knew that, right?), and I have several QF freinds interested in coming here DEC.

Don't take our jobs but we can take yours.

I have no idea what that means in this context.


That being said, I repeat-EK would not need DECs if it simply changed it's upgrade policy. I am not supporting hiring DECs, I'm just pointing out that New Tomcat is mistaken if he thinks we wouldn't recieve enough qualified applicants.

[motley flight crue]

Just because they are QF captains, doesn't mean they'll just walk in as DEC. our network is far more challenging then they're pathetic repetitive network. They aren't as fantastic as they think, DEC here is tougher than anything they have done in QF.

[virginexcess]

Bit harsh.

Not their fault that they have a "pathetic" network. There was a time when Emirates had the pathetic network. Karachi and back if i recall. That was it. Despite their pathetic network, those guys managed to lay the groundwork for the airline that you inherited.

I agree that EK network is quite challenging, but equally I would challenge most EK drivers to deliver the result that the A380 crew did in Singapore.

I don't think too many QF Captains would be found wanting at EK, once they were exposed to the network. QF have a rigorous upgrade course as well you know. And once they got over the culture shock, like most EK pilots, they would be extremely capable crew members.

[Flying Spag Monster]

That would be the same QF captains recently involved in Industrial Action to guarantee their job security then... EK was founded on DECs, no secret no complaints.

[Schnowzer]

VE,

Just asking! If the QF crew had blown off all the ECAMs and put the wheels and as much high lift devices out as possible then landed would the result have been the same? Or did they do something clever that changed the situation?

Szr

[woofer]

EK's network is far more challenging

Can anyone explain why it's far more challenging or demanding?

Thanks

[donpizmeov]

I think its got to do with trying to stay awake.

The Don

[White Knight]

I agree that EK network is quite challenging, but equally I would challenge most EK drivers to deliver the result that the A380 crew did in Singapore

Well Mr VE, I'm sure the QF crew did a marvellous job; but why tw@t around in the air when you can drop the wheels, lay on some flap and land!!!! Oh yeah - schnowzer pointed that out, but I thought the same:cool:

Get it on the ground................... It's not rocket-science. Except to some of the Oz-mates I guess:{:hmm::ugh:

[glofish]

I'm definitely in with Schnowzer and WK.

It's losing control airborne (CG et al.) versus landing distance that was a little critical.
I'd rather overrun a bit (in SIN not really lethal) than lose control at 6000 feet.

I know, thread creep.

But going back to the original thread:
Why don't you decorated QF astronauts come over as DEC! You could teach us all how it's really done.
Wouldn't that be win - win??

[Tankengine]

So, after you ran off the runway [and at the weight just after T/O it would have been well off!] and the company asked why you did not do any ecams or check runway length required you would say what exactly?:confused::=

Regarding DECs:

I think you will find most QF Captains would prefer to stay at home.:rolleyes:

If required though, they would do a fine job, just like current EK Pilots.:ok:

[glofish]

So, after you ran off the runway [and at the weight just after T/O it would have been well off!] and the company asked why you did not do any ecams or check runway length required you would say what exactly?

Regarding DECs:

I think you will find most QF Captains would prefer to stay at home.

If required though, they would do a fine job, just like current EK Pilots.

To flatten the waves a bit:

Probably the majority of EK pilots would have preferred to stay at home, but couldn't.
It looks different with a cosy contract at home. Just wait until yours gets joyced or scrapped for good. You might start liking to come to the pit.

If you come, I am certain you would do a fine job. We need pilots, maybe not necessarily DECs.
If though, just be aware that coming as DEC is not a walk in the park.





(now as a continuation of the thread creep, you don't have to read that:
The QF chaps did a good job bringing the aircraft down in one piece. It is however more than legitimate to analyze the accident and maybe come to a different conclusion.
- Remember SR111 at Halifax. The crew went down the same road, trying to work the checklist and dump fuel. Unfortunately the aircraft gave it up before they could realize their plan. Some then pretended it would have been more appropriate to land directly, even taking into consideration an overrun on that short runway. When is what plan more successful? QF32 could have gone awfully wrong staying airborne just as SR111 could have gone well with an overrun. It's hard to judge in the aftermath, but it leaves both plans open to debate.
- QF32 had a five men crew. How often do you get that? Isn't the modern airliner set up for a two man crew? Would two men have been able to go and do a visual check? Would they have been able to interpolate between various tables to assess some landing distance? I guess not. Remember the captain was basically a sidestick operator and the FO a ECAM operator. No time for additional stuff! They might just have gone for plan B under such circumstances. Now, should we never board a 380 if less than five crew on board?
- I took the configuration of QF32 and worked the landing distance of a T7 with MTOW. No overrun in SIN. Should we not board a 380 with MTOW, because it has this huge LD requirement?

Again, they did a good job, kudos.
But it seems that today we make heroes of about any pilot who gets the aircraft down in one piece and then pretend he would have been the rare one succeeding (implementing that we all, the others, might have not) and that his choice was the only viable one.

If it's not open to debate, we do not really learn, we only copy.)

[donpizmeov]

The transfer of 58 CAs from the 330 to the 777 should get rid of the need for DECs. FCI says it starts FEB 12, so get em while they are hot.

the Don

[Kamelchaser]

Quote:
EK's network is far more challenging
Can anyone explain why it's far more challenging or demanding?

Fairly easy to answer that one Woofer. EK has one of the most (if not the most) diverse route structures in the world. We fly to every continent, operate in the most extreme weather conditions from -40 in Moscow to 50C in our own home base. Monsoons to blizzards.

We operate to many of the busiest, most sophisticated airfields in the world, right through to some of the most remote with very limited facilities.

Some of our destinations are war-zones in all but name.

We operate to airfields up to 7,800ft AMSL, in the middle of summer, with CBs all around, at night.

We need to be NATS qualified, ETOPS (no big deal there!) Northern Himalayas, RNP (AR), and various different route and Cat C airfield qualifications.

And finally, each and every 777 and 330/340 pilot needs to be able to turn up for work and fly his aircraft type, at short notice, to just about every airport on our network (about 110+ of them), regardless of whether anyone in the crew has ever been there before. (I mention this because I recall a few years back a QF exec bemoaning the fact that if they wanted to change an aircraft type on a sector, they had to "negotiate" with 17 different unions).

So, it is indeed a challenging and diverse job. You simply can't maintain a comfortable degree of corporate knowledge about all these destination, so you're always working hard to stay safe going into these different airfields.

[The Dominican]

I sympathize with the situation that the F/O's will face if this comes to materialize, very hard to feel that your slot has been denied to you or postponed, but lets not ramp up the drama that much guys, please. All this talk about it being "extremely challenging" and such, guys an experienced wide body captain that has seen his fair share of different SOP's flying internationally would be just fine entering as a DEC, again I understand your point of view but!!!!

[woofer]

The transfer of 58 CAs from the 330 to the 777 should get rid of the need for DECs. FCI says it starts FEB 12, so get em while they are hot.

From what I hear, the A330 gus are already working their b...s off. Reducing the complement by 58 will make matters worse. Granted that the A330's are being phased out but at what rate? And who is going to fly the new A380's?

[Payscale]

11 A343 to go next financial year

[Netset]

11 A343 to go next financial year

Payscale that is rather subjective as it all depends on the demand. A number of A330's had to go however only 2(EAB and EAC) have left to date if I'm not mistaken.

[145qrh]

Also a bit tricky as we only have 8 A343 :}

[FlyingCroc]

Calm down, the network is not all that challenging, especially since 99% the weather in Dubai is Cavok. Then there are always challenging airports and weather in every airline on this World.

[filejw]

That challenging thing sounds over the top as it sounds like the work 80% of the pilots I know perform. Its not rocket science folks.

[etops777]

An airport is an airport with a serving approaches and a "straight runway".

[desertcamel]

There are only 8 343's and 10 345's...or the other way around.

11 planned to go, and a mix of everything.

[The Dominican]

The job involves flying an airplane, not operating the Starship Enterprise. An airline job is an airline job. There are many GA or corporate jobs way more challenging than this job where even the most retarded of DECs from you-know-which continent can be spoon fed enough nous to get the job done. If the retired Nigels from BA can operate here, any QF astronaut could just as easily waltz in and perform. It's as simple as that.

Needed perhaps a little more tact but thank you, I agree with you. :D

[TangoUniform]

If I may, what the captain meant to say.......taken in isolation, flying for EK may not be any more challenging than other airlines, but......

To name a few, most airlines have a homogenous culture in the cockpit with little or no communication issues. Most airlines divide our type of flying amongst narrow and wide body. However at EK perhaps Monday one flies to OPKC, or similar, in the middle of the night and then on Wednesday fly a 16 hour westbound ULR and back and then three all night turns to xxxx, then another ULR eastbound, and do that for 90+ hours with factoring. Of course this will fit a "proper rest" regulation.

What may be trying to be said, is that we fly an incredible diverse network, in ALL the inhabited continents, with arguably aircraft types (re., size) that weren't designed for such flying, with a cockpit crew of over 90 different nationalities and relative experience and hours, with highly fatiguing rosters.

I know there is higher challenging flying out there, more dangerous type flying, and airlines that are operating on a shoestring which makes things challenging. But as stated, the diversity of the flying, with the documented fatigue issues, makes EK unique in it's overall operation. All of which adds to the day to day stress of the EK pilot. It takes it's toll both mentally and physically.

So to you guys out there doing it day in day out.....great job. Just anyone thinking of joining.......be very very prepared. Know a number of guys after one year are unable to sustain and are looking for any exit strategy.

[etops777]

Fack5

I am with you.

[USMCProbe]

Fack5, cheers.

Widebody flying is the easiest in the world, and yes I have done it to 4 out of 5 continents. Busy airports? Bring em on. They treat widebody aircraft with kid gloves. Tiny airports in 3rd world countries? Bring em on, easy and fun flying.

I fly every flight as professionally as I can, but it is a boring job. Widebody even worse. I tell my friends that my GOAL at work is to have a boring day, as that means I did my job well that day.

We get paid what we do for the few times the **** hits the fan, and then we all have to fly like astronauts.

On a daily basis, challenging? A runway is a runway, a CB is a CB, an FO is an FO, from whatever country. Who cares. Show up on time, do your job professionally, and collect your paycheck. Challenging? On a daily basis? No. Easiest job I have ever had. The challenge is staying awake.

[USMCProbe]

50 deg C challenging? Your cockpits don't have AC?
-30 C challenging? No heat either?
aircraft not "designed for airports" Your 330's need more RW than other 330s?
Fatigue? welcome to the big league, girls.

FO's from 90 countries? Challenging? They are not ICAO 4? Actually sounds interesting and you might learn something from them if you would stop complaining and have a conversation with them.

I only read the Emirates stuff occasionally. The job sounds good, except too much complaining. LOL. However that is probably only the bottom 10%, and every place has a bottom 10%.

[Wizofoz]

Widebody flying is the easiest in the world, and yes I have done it to 4 out of 5 continents.

Yes, wide-bodies are easy...

GEOGRAPHY is hard!!

(there are 7 continents, USMC.)

[USMCProbe]

Wizofoz;
Please Google your response. Different places are taught different things. When I grew up, Australia was not considered a different continent. Antarctica? So Emirates mounts ski's on their 330's also? I stand by my 4/5 continents, as that is what I was taught. Nobody flies to Antarctica other than some contract twin otters, the USAF, and maybe the NZ AF. No commercial flights. I also flew in Oz for 7 weeks in 94, so I ticked that box also, but I don't consider it a separate continent as that is what I was taught. Others may differ.

I was taught 6, including Antarctica, but there are no commercial flights there, unless you have ski mounted 330's.

[neville_nobody]

No commercial flights

Really? What on earth is a A319 doing down there?

A319: early photos :: Australian Antarctic Division (http://www.antarctica.gov.au/living-and-working/travel-and-logistics/aviation/intercontinental-operations/a319-background-information/a319-photo-album/a319-early-photos)

I think you better understand Australian humour too:ok:

[Wizofoz]

US,

It was a light-hearted dig, maybe a smiley was needed.

Australia is sometimes grouped as Australasia or Oceania, but not many clump the whole of Australia, New Zealand, Fiji and Tonga into Asia.

Still, there are at least six continents, and you've flown to four of them. Just because no one else does (though actually, there is a Charter A319 (no skis) service from Hobart- Wilkinson A319 background information :: Australian Antarctic Division (http://www.antarctica.gov.au/living-and-working/travel-and-logistics/aviation/intercontinental-operations/a319-background-information) during Summer) doesn't mean it doesn't exist!!

[Flaite]

Commercial flights to Anctartica:

Antarctica Flights (http://www.aeroviasdap.cl/antartica_e.html)

[A380 Jockey]

MAJOR thread creep....ouch!
:ouch:

[USMCProbe]

My humble apologies for helping increase the thread creep. I don't work there so I should just read and shut up. But I couldn't help myself on this one. I am sure 90%+ Emirates pilots are great guys to work with, as well as those from all 90 countries.

My last post here.

[sparkman]

"My last post here."

Best post I've read in ages.

[Payscale]

How did a DEC in Emirates thread become a Commercial flight to antartic..:D

[Oakape]

How did a DEC in Emirates thread become a Commercial flight to antartic..

It's the only continent that EK doesn't fly to. They have got to be looking at it! :E

[A380 Jockey]

Now they will be surely.....what with the 50 777-300ER's on their way.
THAT smells like DEC recruitment to me!

[fatbus]

When are they coming?

[millerscourt]

The DEC's? Quite soon I guess:ooh:

[Dani]

I don't get the logic. If they are short of pilots, they shouldn't change the DEP policy, but providing commuting contract. Within an instance, they would get say 200% more applications, be it "first", "second" or "third" tier (whatever you mean with that). EK could hand pick. They would get the best and the brightest. But nobody wants to live in that place.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Dani...

You are correct but if you knew the culture in the Arab world and Dubai in particular, they can't really seem to understand why they're having such a hard time recruiting.... it doesn't sink in much that all they'd need to do is base overseas somewhere.

However, it's not as easy as that. First, and it actually makes a bit of sense, is that both the airline and government of Dubai want you to s

Secondly, and I'm not 100% sure of this but I believe if they base in different countries, the labor laws of that country "could" apply and Emirates would lose much of their control over it's employee group and the possibility of unions comes up and ultimately, Emirates could lose a great advantage they have not having unions as they are illegal in the UAE.

My two dirhams worth.

K

[littlejet]

In that case they wouldn't compensate for the tax of that country. Plus housing
Are you willing to do the same job for 40+20% less? Soon you will be fed up and leave.
Attrition rate is for some reason always more on commuting contracts.
So what's the point?
More money and then more days off will bring people anywhere in the world

[Dani]

What the he... - wouldn't you accept the same job without housing (but living in your own house in your home country instead? School fees - no need, since your children are learning in your home country in your mother tongue. Taxes? I gladly pay my taxes if I can live in the security of my land I am born.

I for sure wouldn't leave a job, living at home and doing 2-3 weeks for an airline in a foreign country. That's the best quality of life.

Cpt Lt, I know that the locals think like that, but maybe they have to rethink? After all, the management is western, and those who have attributed to the succes are all but locals. So the question is easy: Eighter you can fill those 200 ordered wide bodies with crews or you don't...

[woofer]

I agree with kapitanleutnant.

Besides being slightly complicated, although doable, the major hurdle is the legal aspect of it all.

With respect to DEC recruitment, I think it's just a matter of time.

[littlejet]

I agree, but that is the case only if you are from the Country and City where the base is. Otherwise you have to move and in case of Europe different language becomes the issue. Dunno which country will allow foreign airline hub that big.
Looking at the "commuting airlines" they usually have up to 35% workforce expats commuting and the rest are local pilots. Emirates case is opposite.
Consecutive days off and jumpseat, might sweeten the deal

[pilotguy1222]

Just talked with a pilot friend who also works in recruitment. No talk of DEC's. They are all too aware of how badly that failed the last time.

50 777-300ER orders have nothing to do with DEC's, as Boeing can't deliver them any faster.

[Captain Dart]

From direct experience, the Cathay Pacific attempt to 'on-shore' crew, due to labour law and taxation requirements in the various jurisdictions, has been totally arsed up.

Crew are now liable for retrospective, double taxation and the situation is a total shambles. After the CX mill owners' experience with crew bases, I can't see any middle east slave traders following suit in a hurry.

They'll just have to pay good money for quality crew, like our lot used to.

[Boeing 777-300ER]

Just talked with a pilot friend who also works in recruitment. No talk of DEC's. They are all too aware of how badly that failed the last time.

50 777-300ER orders have nothing to do with DEC's, as Boeing can't deliver them any faster

pilotguy1222, although recruitment does a great job, I don't think that its up to them to decide whether DEC's are employed or not. It all has to do with numbers I guess.

[The Turtle]

disenfranchised...i love that word....its sooooo Spike Lee

the latest passing marks on the 777 interview are pretty good, btw

[White Knight]

It won't matter if past DEC policies resulted in serious damage to recruiting or even some isolated instances of lunatics being hired ahead of qualified F/O's. You gotta put bums in the seats, even if it disenfranchises a good portion of the F/O's already working at the company. DEC's have been used and will be used to mitigate poor planning and management if it is deemed to be an acceptable policy by the office types. Don't for a second think that YOUR career aspirations or even the beliefs of recruitment pilots will be taken into account. It's all about $.



For once SI I agree with you here. It is ECONOMICS 101.................... We DO NOT WANT and DO NOT NEED DECs:mad:

[Kapitanleutnant]

WK...

Not saying I disagree with you old chap, but I'm sure getting tired of 95 hours each and every month and the more "bums" in the left seat, the fatigue may subside some. At this point, I'm looking forward to as many upgrades as possible and I'm one who thinks DEC's are inevitable again. I've heard come March, EK won't have enough of it's own FO's to upgrade due to current requirements. Apparently JA when to AAR to try to get it reduced some a few weeks back....

I think we all agree this 95 hours is not a sustainable deed.... but I've been hearing that for a year now and we're still doing it.

Kap

[White Knight]

Hi Kapitanleutnant - you're right. It'll happen! I'm just saying that this is not good news for our F/Os......................

[fringhtok]

Why does an order for A/C to be delivered in 2015 mean there will be DECs in a few months? It may happen, but the latest order won't be the cause. It will be interesting to go along to a roadshow if they do start. They think they're having trouble finding F/Os now, wait until they try this.