RAF Woodvale

[1.3VStall]

I was in Ainsdale at the weekend and the local rumour is that RAF Woodvale will close. As a former member of MUAS many moons ago I have happy memories of the airfield and the delights of the sand dunes at Formby.

Does anyone know anything?

[CargoMatatu]

Ah, me too!

Very fond memories as that is where I did my first air experience flying in Chippies, being in the RAF section of the CCF at that time.

Always looked forward to Wednesday afternoons! :ok:

[Flyer-Tyler]

I think we'll just have to wait and see as nothing is set in stone yet, from what I've heard it seems that just about every RAF station has it's own rumour about it closing at the moment!

[KeyPilot]

Rumours of Woodvale's closure have circulated for years.

Does the rumour cite any sources, or is there any reason to suppose it is well founded? If not, I wouldn't take it too seriously.

[Flyer-Tyler]

Closing Woodvale would mean moving a UAS, VGS and also relocating the Police helicopter, am I correct? Does the rumour include where these are likely to move to?

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

I believe that the Police Helicopter is already planned to move - something to do with amalgamation of 2 Forces requirements. Not sure where it is moving to, though. This will, of course allow for the previously planned asylum seekers camp or low cost housing estate that the residents of Formby have been crying out for, to come to fruition!:E

Duncs:ok:

[air pig]

But it's one of the few RAF airfields on the west coast. Only Valley and the use of West Freugh are left. Handy and discreet to go over the water or work off the Morecambe Bay gas fields for the long haired ones.

Regards

Air pig

[spekesoftly]

I believe that the Police Helicopter is already planned to move ................The Police Air Support Unit at Woodvale closed earlier this year. I believe some of the crews joined their ASU colleagues at Hawarden.

[Nearly There]

Im surprised Woodvale has escaped the bean counters for so long, I have fond memories of cleaning barf out the back seat of a chippi after aero's there bac in the 80's.....didnt put me of flying though.

I taught with the VGS not to long ago and there was talk then of them moving back to Sealand, they only moved for developers to move in but they didnt.

Airpig, the discreet ones use a nearby civi one occasionaly.

[Tiger_mate]

Im surprised Woodvale has escaped the bean counters for so long

I'm not surprised at all. Assuming that the land is owned outright by the MoD, there has been almost no investment in the airfield for decades, it is bought and paid for and probably earns a small sum in rent (assuming that civil aviation remains part of the Woodvale skyline) It is also an effective buffer keeping joe public away from the Red Squirrels and protected toads associated with the adjacent sand dunes. I doubt it is within the Liverpool green belt if indeed such a thing remains and although any land has development potential, Woodvale is surrounded by hundreds of acres of farmland that could serve as housing estates if required. In short, it costs little to retain and all things being considered, would probably raise little if sold.

[1.3VStall]

Tiger Mate,

I hope you're right, I have fond memories of the old OM accommodation blocks - Valiant, Victor and Vulcan - in the days when a batman bought us an early morning cuppa.

However, with the state of the MoD's finances, nothing appears sacred these days.

[A2QFI]

When I was there in the 90s the resident flying club paid for the repair of the roof of the one half of the hangar that they used - MOD wouldn't

[Tiger_mate]

However, with the state of the MoD's finances, nothing appears sacred these days.

That I am afraid is: Game,Set & Match :(

Perhaps we should drop the thread and let Woodvale slide gently beneath the radar where it belongs. ;)

[diginagain]

What about the tried and tested key indicator of imminent sale; have vast sums of money been spent on the place recently?

[betty swallox]

1.3Vstall,
I've heard loads of rumours. TSR2 to be cancelled. And Nimrod MRA4. And I heard that RAF Kinloss may shut. And I hear there may be RAF and RN redundancies....

[Flyer-Tyler]

No sh!t Betty?

[dazdaz1]

Do any of you who were at Woodvale remember the 'Sands' and 'Toad Hall ' night clubs at Ainsdale by the beach?

Daz

[DX Wombat]

My father worked in ATC there in the 60s and I can remember spending a lovely day there for the whole of one of his shifts. Lots and lots of hares and other wildlife on the field as well as Natterjack Toads in the area. :)

[OafOrfUxAche]

Does anyone know anything?


Categorically: yes.

[jamesdevice]

"Handy and discreet to go over the water or work off the Morecambe Bay gas fields for the long haired ones"
Blackpool
And don't forget Barrow is a s near as dammit a "secret" airfield as you could wish for

[Fokkerwokker]

DX Wombat

I was the 'lad' in the tower on weekends in the early 60s having previously been a Staff Cadet at 10 AEF.

Which one of the handsome controllers was your Pa?

FW

[1.3VStall]

Daz,

I most certainly remember Toad Hall. I am so old I confess to seeing Pan's People live there once - and bl00dy sexy they were too!;)

[skua]

Ah - Sands & Toad Hall - it must have been the ozone that had such a beneficial effect on a young man's libido!:E

[A2QFI]

Man who worked there for 40 years says "No". We shall see.

[Dunhovrin]

Where would Rockin' Rod go? Cath behind the bar...

The usual Closure Clue is doing up the MQs. Hmmm. Has West Lancs had a new bar?

Seen by many - forgotten by none.

[andytug]

I wonder who this anonymous "expert" is, and if he has any connections to builders or other housing companies....
https://www.otsnews.co.uk/woodvale-waste-cash-says-raf-expert/

[chevvron]

Maybe a disgruntled ex or wannabee AEF pilot who got binned in the recent purges?

[jayteeto]

Expert????
Manchester Airport don’t even want biz jets!!
Liverpool charged me £40 odd quid a landing when renewing my twin rating recently. That’s going to reduce costs.
The recent find of a load of buried asbestos at Woodvale negates the “alternative” uses

[PPRuNeUser0139]

In one of those coincidental symmetries that life sometimes throws up, the maiden flight of the English Electric P1B took place at Warton just a few months before the last THUM Flt Spitfire left active RAF service at Woodvale on the other side of the Ribble estuary.

Toad Hall and the Sands - names to conjure with!

[H Peacock]

Ah, Woodvale! SAMUAS (okay, it was actually called MASUAS but Salford Aero-Eng dominated when I was there!) in the mid-80s. I'm not sure it was ever bettered in my 30+ years!

Never forget the 'old' mess, climbing on the Meteor gate guard, regular dunkings in the water storage pools, loads of flying, 3 useable runways, Toad Hall night club, and of course Uncle Rod Newman and XX549! Such happy days!

[1.3VStall]

XX549 - get some time in! I remember WD322 on MUAS.

[The B Word]

Wow, I wonder who this was

Experts have claimed that RAF Woodvale is nothing more than a waste of money, despite the strip being a well used light aircraft centre.

In a message to OTS news, a former pilot who asked to remain nameless said the base is a ‘gross misuse of public funds.’

They wrote: “Woodvale is of no use to the safety of the UK as an RAF base.”

“To maintain a fully operational RAF station for so few aircraft represents a gross misuse of public funds, particularly given the alternative uses for the site.

“Woodvale is an anachronism that has changed little since the Second World War.”

“Elementary flying training need not take place on an RAF station. Glasgow University air squadron, for example, flies from Glasgow Airport.

“Manchester Airport could be available, and Liverpool JLA would welcome the business.”

I have to admit, keeping an airfield open with no other Station function is a little wasteful these days. Maybe some form of joint ownership is required like the former RAF St Mawgan?

[olddog]

As a former QFI/CO with happy memories of RAF Woodvale, I am aware that the future of the airfield has been reviewed many times. Somehow it has survived several rounds of defence cuts despite more operational bases closing. The savings made by closing Woodvale would be a fraction of those from the closure of a major base like Leuchars and Kinloss (Both of which still have limited use by the RAF. Manchester, Salford and Liverpool universities all provided a good number of aircrew and engineering recruits to the RAF in my day, and Woodvale is conveniently placed for students from there to start their RAF training. Unfortunately, the emphasis on flying in the UASs has been reduced in recent years. The current Grob contract can't have much longer to run and the advent of MFTS may introduce a more complex and expensive aircraft for EFT. I am sure that the bean counters will be looking again at the need for and cost of every base in the UK. I am aware that Woodvale has some civil activity but this is unlikely to contribute mor than a few thousand a year towards the maintenance of the airfield, ATC and emergency services. To call Woodvale an emergency diversion airfield is fancyful. The runways are shortwith low load carrying factors, there is no regular source of avtur and the crash cat is not suitable for anything other than light aircraft. In my time there only a handful of jet aircraft used the airfield - on preplanned visits and each one generated a storm of protest from local residents! To suggest that UAS/AEF operations can operate successfully from a major civil airport is incorrect. Continuous circuit training does not mix with heavy instrument traffic. UGSAS had to detach to an RAF airfield for the circuit consolidation phase each year (The need for this may have reduced since the reduction of UAS hours in recent years). my years at Woodvale were, in the main, very happy and we produced many good pilots (including RED ONE) and engineers for the RAF. Good luck for the future!

[tmmorris]

As far as AEF ops go, it’s effectively already closed.

[roving]

As a former QFI/CO with happy memories of RAF Woodvale,

When my father rejoined the RAF in 1951, (having demobbed in early 1947 and joined 613 AAF Sqn, based at Ringway), his first posting was to MUAS as QFI/CFI.

As you will know MUAS was operating out of Ringway in the late 1940's, which was for the reasons you set-out completely unsuitable. It moved to Barton, which was particularly convenient for not only my parents, but for me as I attended Bridgewater School in Worsley. Ironically my father flew from Barton in 1938/39 with the Civil Air Guard. Then MUAS moved to Woodvale. Nice location. I recall seeing The Queen waving from a balcony on her Coronation tour of Britain and of many days on beaches which never ended, also the white round house which looked like it had once been a light house and lastly Lord Street.

I may be wrong, but I have the impression my father trained students from both Liverpool and Manchester, one of which won the D.H. trophy during his posting as an instructor.

Photos from that era attached..

On the seated photo my father is to the immediate left of the CO as we look at it.

[Danny42C]

Disruntled with the Civil Service in 1948, and a Southport resident, hied me to Woodvale (Spitfire XIVs ?) as a stepping stone to getting back in the RAF.

"Go away", said the Adj - "we're full up, don't call us, we'll call you".

Luckily the RAFVR (Fazackerley, Liverpool) were more welcoming, but as they had only just been reconstituted after the war, there was no training organised before the RAF took pity on me, and let me back in.

Ah, Ainsdale Beach .... what stories those sandhills could tell !

Danny.

[PPRuNeUser0139]

You and me both Danny!:E

[EnigmAviation]

If we apply the standard test as to closing down - which is have we just spent some £M's on it, then it should stay open, as the only spending observed recently by me has been 1) painting the Southerly hangar doors of the UAS/AEF Tutor hangar with RAF Roundels ( v large ) and 2) repairing runways. Mind you the VGS is temporarily relocated to Topcliffe due to the decimation of the Vigilant Fleet and the lengthy re-introduction of it back into service. Although no sooner will the very few be back , than it'll be time to withdraw them totally - but that's another major story of how not to manage an aircraft fleet !!

[Tigger_Too]

@1.3VStall,

Not only do I remember Sands and Toad Hall very well, we were apparently at Toad Hall on the same night. I still have fond memories of Babs Lord in particular!!

I also claim WD322 as my favourite steed. First solo in her on March 14 1973 under the watchful eye of gentlemen QFI A**n Th***e.

Happy days.

TT

[Tigger_Too]

.... and just to stir the grey cells a little more:

https://image.ibb.co/d6DiLm/Pans_People_011.jpg

[Wander00]

"Pans Cripples" as Mike Harding lampooned them

[BEagle]

Did that unfunny FNM Harding really refer to Pan's People in such a way?

Pretty unfair if he did, given that one of them had pretty severe walking issues in her earlier days...:mad:

[1.3VStall]

Tigger,

We must know each other - whoaargh Babs!

The QFI to whom you refer I knew as well - he had done an exchange tour with les poisson tetes on Gannets.

Happy days!

[Sleeve Wing]

………...and of course Uncle Rod Newman and XX549! Such happy days!

Hi HP.
I know your comment was some time back but just thought that you would like to know that XX549 is still alive and very much kicking !

Now known as the Red Dog, this beautiful little aircraft is luxuriating in the TLC of a group down at White Waltham these days. She had a respray recently and we may try and tidy up the upholstery in the near future even though it is still in a pretty respectable state.
Most of us are retired professional pilots and take great delight in taking her anywhere and everywhere. Our only problem is when the fatigue meter reaches the magic number and we have to think about treating the possible spar-worm. Yes, she is still subjected to aeros sequences on a regular basis, admittedly not as feverish as in her heyday with Rod. Old and new pictured below; yep, whoops, wrong tail number.

[Wander00]

Beags - just shows different things make different people laugh. And he probably did not know, and neither did I, that one of les girls had previously had a problem. Guess not many did.