GAM Aerocommander pilots!

[Hold_Short]

Bumped into a few of these pilots recently during a lengthy charter and each were professional yet approachable for a quick chat about there operations. I believe its all Bank runs all over the eastern states... great job for sure being only Monday to Friday work.

It's just good to see pilots who are content and simply enjoy working for a well respected company and not baging their operator.

Keep up the enjoyment for your job boys and girls! Pure flying and good fun!

Seems like their Aerocommanders are well kept too considering the hours I'm them.

HS

[Howard Hughes]

Have worked with quite a few ex GAM pilots, they all seem to be switched on operators too.

They are certainly doing something right over there!:ok:

[VH-FTS]

Ask them what they think about their fatigue management system. Not a great Monday to Friday job after all.

[Hold_Short]

Their fatigue management system is great. All done online and managed to the T. They have 1-2 days of stby during Monday to Friday which... in my mind is a great working week!

[j3pipercub]

Sorry Hold Short, have you worked for them? I believe their FAID system allows them to work 4 days a week. You probably haven't seen the guys and girls with their eyes hanging out of their head after 4 days straight of bank runs, 4am sign on, 7.30pm sign off.

[Hold_Short]

Which ever way you want to look at it, is up to you. The two I saw on different occasions had been with the company for 3yrs and 4years respectively... were happy with the job and company and yes days were long, but they took the good with bad... and got on with it. They were content and humble... just the way I like it.

[Jack Ranga]

And most of them DON'T request traffic and code in their taxy call :ok:

[VH-FTS]

That's a slightly different tune to what I've heard. Their FRMS is not liked at all due to the limited sleep available during their normal bodyclock patterns over a prolonged period of time. The money is ok, but nothing great. Storm season without weather radars. And let's discuss the fear in the back of their mind about the next inflight break up. How many spars are we up to now?

They're all waiting for a call up to turbines, they're definitely not there for the love of it.

Even in the crummy jobs I've had, I've been unlikely to bitch about it to a stranger. No telling who your audience is.

Sure, GAM is one of the better GA jobs with good opportunities for those that stick to it. But it's not the amazing job you speak of.

[Aye Ess]

Acrylic on stretched canvas 20cm x 25cm

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a401/alan_spears/VH-UJL.jpg?t=1319685746

[romeocharlie]

With FAID, you can actually work 6... Nice canvas by the way :)

RC

[FGD135]

And most of them DON'T request traffic and code in their taxy call

What about when about to change level? Do they request traffic then?

And, whilst in G airspace, having left their cruising level, do they report this to centre?

Lovely canvas.

[VH-FTS]

C'mon, name one operator that doesn't have pilots that make non standard calls. Jet pilots are just as bad at times...

[Bing Gordon]

And let's discuss the fear in the back of their mind about the next inflight break up. How many spars are we up to now?

Are you for real?

[eocvictim]

Yes he is. No different from keeping the thought of an engine failure in a single in the back of your mind.

Fts, 24-26 in flight by last count? 100s written off in total.

[Curare]

Live close to YMAY see old mate heading of at 6.00pm every week night rain, hail or shine without fail. I know when the news on TV is about to start. Could I do it ??? be an interesting ride at times I imagine. As I speak I can hear the Aero Commander overhead, bit early its only 17:53

[das Uber Soldat]

One of the best piston GA operators out there. But the FAID system is pure aids. I'd to see how many times you could do four or even sometimes five days straight of 4:45am - 7:30pm, 6.5 VDO. Its bloody hard and shouldn't be legal.

Also, the spar issue is a real issue. Everyone gets a very clear talking to about Va/b and turbulence flying technique in general on start.

Those issues aside, great little company that cares about its standards and I feel, produces good pilots out the other end!

[airag]

My goodnes , 4 long days straight with 6.5 VDO ..... don't know how you survive that . Good thing we would never allow that in Ag' !!!!

[Super Cecil]

My goodnes , 4 long days straight with 6.5 VDO ..... don't know how you survive that . Good thing we would never allow that in Ag' !!!!

Does make one snigger :}

[sheppey]

Hold Short. Back to primary school for you and learn how to spell.:ok:

[Hold_Short]

????? A few errors with predictive txt... is it the end of the world.

[Wally Mk2]

This job (GAM flying) has produced some of the finest pilots I have ever seen, real raw experience flying & make excellent commanders in the future,something that will fade in the future.
As for whether it's the best job conditions wise? Nope it would have to be one of the worst but the trick is to stay only long enuf to gain that experience & move on, something that is quicker these days than ever before.


Wmk2

[Che cows with guns]

I really have to agree with Wally above. The Aero Commander is in my opinion a great machine. Great experience doing bank runs, really makes you an aviator- well gives you a bloody good foundation. Employers look at it with respect at interviews. All in all a win win position. Forget about T&C's when you start out get the experience and some honest dirt under you finger nails. It certainly stands you in good stead later on.
Even in the Airlines there are times for various reasons you will be knackered, heck, half my sims have been done back of the clock, so get used to and manage fatigue.
CHE
Good positive post hold short, no one seems to be able to spell or use correct grammar these days anyway.

[das Uber Soldat]

My goodnes , 4 long days straight with 6.5 VDO ..... don't know how you survive that . Good thing we would never allow that in Ag' !!!!Ah there is always one. :rolleyes:

Starting at 4 in the morning and knocking off at half 7, with the commute either end is tiring when done back to back, week after week.

Now go crawl back into the irrelevant little hole from whence you came and take your vapid opinions with you.

:ok:

[Super Cecil]

Starting at 4 in the morning and knocking off at half 7, with the commute either end is tiring when done back to back, week after week.
The 6 hours in the Motel room watching the "Young and Restless" is also very tiring. Compare that to some of the split shifts nurses have to do.

[das Uber Soldat]

Get it through your thick head that nobody is saying its clear in the lead as the hardest job in existence. Simply, that its fatiguing as anyone whos actually done it well tell you.

:ugh:

[Super Cecil]

Relax Mr Soldat, I agree. Those thin plots and bad acting on Young and restless and days of our lives is VERY hard work.

[j3pipercub]

Cec,

Were you always this much of a douche or did you have to work at it? And your ag mates that work the hours they do, is that 12months of the year? Hmmmmm.

j3

[Super Cecil]

My, my, you boys are a little on the sensitive side aren't yoo? As I've said I'm on your side. I can't really imagine how hard it would be stretched out on a motel bed from 10 in the morning till what about 3:30? All I said was it makes one snigger, and it does that.

Thank your lucky stars your actually doing some consistant flying, some people actually enjoy flying that much or more in a day, day after day. If that's too hard a task how are you going to cope when you get on a bit higher up the scale? Long haul stuff? Mebe even freight? Long hours there boys. :8 Maybe if it's all a bit hard for you soldat you could try another industry?

If I could I'd like to comment about the tone of your posts Mr Soldat and J3, a bit abusive there aren't we boys? Next step is to find some spelling and grammer (That's one) mistakes to take the abuse up to the next level. Get more pedantic and a heat the abuse up a bit and you might just reach prune standards. :ok:

[das Uber Soldat]

If anyone has any questions on the GAM op I can try to answer them as best I can.

Dont feed the trolls.

:)

[titenup]

Fatigue management - hinted at, but not specifically mentioned, is the obligation on the pilots flying to comply with the intent of the program,- that is, to utilise the available facilities to rest during the middle part of the day.
Human Factors tells us that this a long term practical reality, both from the dicipline required to undertake the rest period, and the impossibility of resetting the circadian rhythms to achieve quality rest.
There will always be those who adapt to the requirements, and also those who lack the ability to adapt (for whatever reason), and have their "eyes hanging out" as a consequence.

Personally, I have a lot of respect for the operation, and for the aircraft. As for wing separations, most of those were due to earlier incarnations of the engineering resulting in +ve G loadings overcoming a weakened centre structure, and a low percentage attributed purely to flight velocity induced loadings resulting in -ve G symetrical failures at the inboard ends of the ailerons.

Tite

[VH-FTS]

Yes, circadian rythms can be adjusted over time, however, consider the typical freight pilot's sleep pattern. A GAM pilot would be awake at around 3am, heads in to work for a few hours flying and could possibly be ready for sleep again at 9am. A couple of hours sleep, then back to work, home in bed at about 10pm. This would change depending on the route flown.

Circadian rythms don't adjust very well to two varying sleep periods per day. This is different to someone who consistently works during the night and sleeps during the day. The body can adjust to that.

[Twin Commander]

I'm a fence sitter on this as I have witnessed the good and the bad, but I believe a few facts need to be corrected.
VH-FTS - The FRMS is ok and it works. It is a positive to see a company obey it rather then fudge times!
Hold Short - 1-2 days of stby during Monday to Friday???? Some bases don't get any standbys but they aim for 1 per week - I assume you are talking about the 'teachers pet', Brisbane.

j3pipercub - As Romeo Charlie' said (and he would know!) they can work 6 days a week plus Brisbane has the only 4:00 sign on. Other bases 4:45, 5:00, 6:30 for bankrun pilots.

JackRanga - Nicely said, plus no 'pending clearance' and 'IFR taxi'!

VH-FTS - Storm season without weather radars? Didn't realise that most GA piston drivers had one. No fear over the aircraft structure if managed - i'll reword your question to how many spars have GAM had fail? All waiting for a call up to turbines - no not all but generally yes and some do love the job and company hence after many years are still there.


AyeEss - Love your work!
FGD135 - What about when about to change level? Centre often give traffic on climb for descent due to short legs. Having left their cruising level, do they report this to centre? Probably identified hence not required however i'm sure some forget.
das Uber Soldat - four or even sometimes five days straight of 4:45am - 7:30pm, 6.5 VDO. Only the Gladstone run does 6.5 a week and the sign on is 06:00 Tue-Thur but they share that around - plus they get extra money for it! I believe the max hours done recently in the company is about 32 per week, 123 per month, 1079 per year! Definately a good job for building hours i would say!
eocvictim - 1 hour commute isn't GAMair's fault!
Wally Mk2 - You always seem to tell it like it is! Nice work!
Che cow with guns - Well said.
VH-FTS - A GAM pilot would be awake at around 3am. Only 6 shifts a week out of 65 in the whole company! Plus it is rare to do it back to back.

Nothing in the above comments include the Dornier flying in Brisbane where they work gentlemans hours compared to the bankrunners.
If you don't like hard work and a disrupted lifestyle, the job isn't for you. Unfortunately too many people are looking at the lack of work airline pilots do and are trying to compare GAMair to them!
In summary the GAMair FRMS isn't fun but it works if you are capable of managing yourself. It is also good to see a company follow the pilots award and any allowances in it! Good hours for the next job - but not all are chasing airlines!

Yeah OK everyone have a go at me now for stating the facts.......

[NOSIGN]

GAM work is a great flying experience!

It is also fatiguing and much underpaid when you consider the amount of time away from home and paying for your lunches and dinners in country towns.

it used to be only 3 dayts a week! the good times!

[Plow King]

paying for your lunches and dinners in country towns.



No one's holding a gun to your head to eat parmys four days a week, get your mum to pack you a sandwich! And as for the long hours away from home................:ugh::ugh:

[VH-FTS]

VH-FTS - Storm season without weather radars? Didn't realise that most GA piston drivers had one. No fear over the aircraft structure if managed - i'll reword your question to how many spars have GAM had fail? All waiting for a call up to turbines - no not all but generally yes and some do love the job and company hence after many years are still there.



Really, GAM have had no in-flight break ups ever? You know exactly what I was getting at - don't be smart.

The point is a wx radar is very handy when you don't have 100% confidence in the history of your aircraft type. Plus I'd imagine in general your lot do more night flying than a lot of other GA operators, making it even more challenging to detect bad weather at times with your mark 1 eyeball.

VH-FTS - A GAM pilot would be awake at around 3am. Only 6 shifts a week out of 65 in the whole company! Plus it is rare to do it back to back.


Is that why I hear three GAM planes depart BNE early morning around 5am? Sorry, they get up at 3:15am instead, my mistake...


In summary the GAMair FRMS isn't fun



The FRMS is ok and it works.


Ok, which is it then? The current and former GAM pilots I speak to think it is the former. My understanding is CASA won't issue FRMS like GAM has these days because the science of fatigue has moved on during the last ten years.

Read back and you'll see I was defending you against the guys who think you have it easy. But since you tell me your job is so easy then maybe the soap opera watching lifestyle justifies your crummy pay.

[nig&nog]

The best GAM bank run I ever did was the THG-RK-GLA and return. Out of pub at 6.55am, then 1.5 min drive to airport to meet metro and be airborne with thorough walk around at 7.15am. In and out of RK and then into GLA by 8.30am for a day of whatever you wanted which for me was taking the hotel owners tinnie out for a fish. That was after finishing off the buffet breakfast leftovers. Then return in the arvo to be at TNG pub by 7pm to have first beer by 7.01pm. What a life!! And only 5 days a week, all weekends and public holidays off and a great boss to work for. There was no FRM at that stage but the hardest run I would say for early starts and long days was the CV, which I remember we only ever did two of a week max with day off in between, but man I loved the roast chicken lunch at Poppa's cafe.

[eocvictim]

Gladstone's a run from bn now? Pretty sure brk was the longest run followed by cv then cdu (all over 6 hours), of course ignoring the 9 hour ad-as-ad run now done by the 690. Sounds like toll have really tighten the bank runs belt (and leash).

[NOSIGN]

Plough King,

if you average the time you spend at work with GAM freight, your pay was about $12/hour since you were getting paid for a standard hour working week.

It may have changed since then.

nuff said, no-body held a gun to my head, I chose to leave.

Still, it was a positive experience but it was truely a great time up North.

BTW, Twin Commander has stated the facts.

[Jack Ranga]

What about when about to change level? Do they request traffic then?

Yes they do.

And, whilst in G airspace, having left their cruising level, do they report this to centre?

Yes they do.

[Jack Ranga]

C'mon, name one operator that doesn't have pilots that make non standard calls. Jet pilots are just as bad at times...

RFDS when they had the medical contract in Victoria NEVER (not even Wal :E) transmitted garbage the likes of which comes out of some IFR operators mouths these days. It's not being pedantic, when you working under the staffing numbers we are these days you need accurate, concise radio calls.

[cficare]

Twin C...u are right on the money.

My time with GAM was rewarding, chellenging. satisfying...and i reckon i'm a better pilot for it.

Winghers can leave the room...doors on the left!

[NIK320]

Those conditions are not that bad..
I wish my work would let me have a nice midday siesta :zzz:

[Hold_Short]

GAM, as far as I am aware is an airline operated style company! Say what you want! :)

The longest run for GAM is:

Bankstown - Mudgee - Coonabarabran - Coonamble - Walgett - Brewarrina - Bourke.

And then the same in reverse home, departing Bourke at 3pm! 12 takeoffs and landings within the day then add a few approaches also. Im sure they earn their money and to have shown a smile too at the end of the day is applaudable!