[Burning Question] VFR Flying: Can you do what you like?

[andre1990]

Hi guys,

The new guy here, starting PPL training early next year which i am sincerely looking forward to! (Have some Light A/C under my belt, trips on AWACS & Nimrod too luckily!).

My question...I am Manchester (North UK) based, when flying VFR, can i 'do what i want' routing wise.

For example, i might depart Barton, then just turn left, go right, maybe visit my house, and if i had enough fuel, just fly to Blackpool and head back.

Is that allowed if i stay out of Class '..' airspace, or does every VFR flight need to travel via specific routes?

[Mariner9]

You will of course be trained in this when you start your PPL, but a simple answer* for now is that VFR traffic can route which ever way it wants to outside controlled (Class A-D) airspace.

*(Ignoring complications such as quadrantals, line feature following, what to do when in controlled airspace, etc etc which you really don't need to know at this stage)

[soaringhigh650]

Generally speaking - outside controlled airspace, yes. Inside controlled airspace, sometimes, depends on traffic situation.

[andre1990]

Brilliant answers, cheers!

Quick follow on question, so there is no explicit need to navigate around areas/the UK via VRPs?

And is there some sort of unicom across this uncontrolled expanse? I wouldn't like the thought of xx number of pilots doing their own thing over Manchester with no central/communal comms system! (A flight following would be nice!)

[IO540]

In the UK, and in N Europe in general, if you are VFR outside controlled airspace (which means Class E,F,G) then you can fly anywhere you like - obviously avoiding danger, restricted, prohibited areas etc of which there are plenty of especially in some countries.

You must always get enroute and airport notams. Use the NATS narrow route briefing option.

In S Europe things can be very different e.g. prescribed routings even for VFR.

[BackPacker]

And is there some sort of unicom across this uncontrolled expanse?

Generally, no. There is no requirement to talk to anyone when you're in uncontrolled airspace. In fact, as long as you stay in uncontrolled airspace there's no requirement to carry a radio on board even.

Having said that, on a volunteer basis you can use various services:

- Generally each country has an INFO frequency or two. This is typically not radar based, but it will give you flight information such as the local QNH (air pressure), weather advisories and such, and may help you to open/close a flight plan, will keep an eye on you when you're flying over water and so forth. They normally do not provide traffic information though.
- The UK has a well defined system of "ATSOCAS" (Air Traffic Services Outside Controlled Airspace) services. There are various levels (Basic, Traffic, ...) which will help you navigate through busy airspace. Some of these levels are based on radar and will give you traffic information.
- In the UK in particular there's also a system of "listening squawks", where you monitor the frequency of a nearby controlled airport, and squawk a certain code to indicate so. You don't initate comms with that controlling agency, but if they need you they can talk to you.

But to answer your question, no, it is very rare to have a "unicom" frequency where traffic just talks to each other in the "open FIR". This is typically only found at fully uncontrolled fields, to coordinate landings and departures between aircraft.

The other thing to realise is that if you're 2000 feet up in the air your radio comms will cover a vast expanse. I haven't done the sums but you can probably reach aircraft at 2000 feet that are 100+ miles away. If within such an area everybody would start to self-announce its position and intentions, the frequency would become totally congested, nobody would be able to keep track of other relevant aircraft and the net result would be that the frequency would be useless anyway.

There are some places that do have such a unicom frequency, but these are typically well-defined VFR routes that lie between congested controlled airspace - the Hudson corridor comes to mind. Such places typically do come with their own set of instructions on how to fly them, and how/where to self-announce.

[2high2fastagain]

Andre - Glad to hear you will be starting next year. I hope you will enjoy it. When I started I really wasn't sure I liked flying after 5 hours, but I continued on and am now very glad that I did.

There are a lot of experienced ppruners out here who are giving you wise advice. My two penneth is that despite the antics of bureacrats and little airports who want to introduce more controlled airspace, most of the UK is still 'Class G' uncontrolled airspace where you can do what you want with few restrictions. Sure, you can't fly low and buzz people (there are other rules as well like this), but you can pootle around wherever the hell you like in Class G and can change your mind and divert off to somewhere else instead. If you want to land away, it is always polite and often required that you phone the airfield before you take off to tell them you are coming (prior permission required or PPR), though some will accept PPR over the radio. This also means they will probably alert search and rescue if you don't appear - which is nice if you've not had a good day.

And speaking of the radio, it is still mercifully possible to fly around in Class G without a radio. So, there's nothing to stop you qualifying as a PPL, buying a Piper Cub and slowly (60-70 knots) exploring amost of the UK in splendid isolation. Others will doubtless harang me for saying this as it does of course make sense to talk to ATCUs and make sure your aircraft is transponding in response to radar sweeps, but it is not mandatory for Class G.
The obvious enthusiasm of your post is very uplifting. Very best wishes with your flying next year. Your first solo will be a thrill you will never forget.

[Humaround]

Andre - much of the air above Manchester is, in fact Controlled airspace (Class D) so it's not exactly a free-for-all up there...

Check the charts to see if your house is in or out.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Brilliant answers, cheers!

Quick follow on question, so there is no explicit need to navigate around areas/the UK via VRPs?

Not VRPs, no - normal practice is to select suitable waypoints and use those. But, those waypoints might be towns, hills, masts... anything that works for you and your PLOG.

And is there some sort of unicom across this uncontrolled expanse? I wouldn't like the thought of xx number of pilots doing their own thing over Manchester with no central/communal comms system! (A flight following would be nice!)
Sort of. Generally you talk to the local LARS service - there's a page in Pooleys that shows all the frequencies - higher or in the middle of the night, you might use London or Scottish Info, who will provide a bit of support if you need it.

Inside controlled airspace, you need to talk to the designated controller for that airspace, and busier controlled airspace they're unlikely to let you in without a serviceable transponder.

Realistically however, most trips outside of a few congested bits of airspace (mostly around London and Manchester) there actually is no particularly good reason not to turn the radio off and enjoy the peace and quiet for a while. You might see another aeroplane every half hour on many routes in the UK, less often than that outside the UK.

G

[andre1990]

The strength and warmness of this community really shows in the responses i received, thank you.

Learning from those who know when you love the topic at hand is like peering into Aladin's Cave, i just want to know more!

I will keep you guys updated, i'm sure ill have more questions in the mean time.

:ok:

[silverelise]

Re. the "flying over your house" bit it's worth appraising yourself of Rule 5 and the point about being able to land clear of the built up area in event of engine failure.

Depending on where your house is situated, what aircraft you're flying, and what controlled airspace there is around it and above it, it may mean that overflying your house is not possible.

[1.3VStall]

Andre,

Have a look at SkyDemon Light (http://www.skydemonlight.com/). You can play around by making up routes and see what impact controlled airspace/airfields/danger areas/NOTAMs etc would have on your imaginary flight. It's an excellent VMC planning tool.

And the very best of luck with your flying training!

[liam548]

Andre,

Have a look at SkyDemon Light (http://www.skydemonlight.com/). You can play around by making up routes and see what impact controlled airspace/airfields/danger areas/NOTAMs etc would have on your imaginary flight. It's an excellent VMC planning tool.

And the very best of luck with your flying training!


great link, didnt realise skydemon had this, very handy.

[Squadgy]

Hi Andre

I'm a FISO (Flight Information Service Officer) at Barton. If you want to come and have a chat about how all the airspace works in the area let me know and we can arrange for you to come in to the tower at Barton for a cup of tea and a chat. :ok:

[cumulusrider]

Just be aware that there are a considerable number of other air users flying VFR besides 'light aircraft'. On a nice summers day you will find up to 300 gliders plus hang gliders, balloons, paragliders, microlights etc.
In fact these other users probably out number light aircraft.
Most of them will not be on radio, and are using their eyes. See and be seen (remember looking out. You used to that before you had all those toys to play with in the cockpit)
cumulusrider

[1.3VStall]

liam548,

I agree, SkyDemon Light is a very user-friendly way of planning a VFR route. There is really no excuse now for anyone not getting the relevant NOTAMs for their flight.

[BackPacker]

There is really no excuse now

It runs on Microsoft Silverlight, which is at the very least a Royal-Pain-In-The-Ass, and sometimes even downright impossible to run on any non-Microsoft operating system.

I guess if you are running a current version of Microsoft Windows, and have a reasonably fast computer and internet connection, then it's OK.

[1.3VStall]

Backpacker,

I have Windows Vista and it works very well for me, I didn't realise that there were problems with other operating systems.

[lotusexige]

I'm running Windows 2000 and it works fine. BTW, I reckon that W2K is the most stable version of Windows that I have come across, this one was installed 5 years ago and still stable.

[Bobby Hart]

It runs on macbooks and desktop macs too! (not iPad or iPhone as Apple dont seem to want Silverlight running on those)

[andre1990]

I haven't had access to the net for a few days, but i'm back and up to date with the thread ;)

Andre

I'm a FISO (Flight Information Service Officer) at Barton. If you want to come and have a chat about how all the airspace works in the area let me know and we can arrange for you to come in to the tower at Barton for a cup of tea and a chat.

That sounds absolutely fantastic Squadgy, shall i contact you via PM to arrange something or are there any fixed dates/times i can pop down?

Cheers