SoS Resigns (Dr Fox Gone)

[higthepig]

BBC News - Liam Fox quits as defence secretary (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15300751)

[Capetonian]

Hopefully more will fall on their swords. Oh no ....... that implies some honour and shame. Those bottom feeding scum don't know the meaning of that word.

[The Old Fat One]

Given the circumstances, falling on somebody's sword is a bit of an unfortunate turn of phrase :E

PS

On behalf of the ex kipper fleet I would just like to say :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[Roadster280]

Hopefully the Constable of the Tower of London will be asked to take up the reins.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Hopefully the Constable will take a fair few politicians back to the Tower for the traditional "haircut".:E

[ColinB]

Yet another Minister fox off

[occhips]

Music Business job vacancy in Norwich (UK) - Mobile Disco DJ - Ref. FI18387 (http://www.freeindex.co.uk/job(mobile-disco-dj)_18387.htm)

This might help his job hunting ?

[Clearedtoroll]

Most might disagree, but I think it is a loss to the us in the Armed Forces. He was more on top of his brief than any Defence Secretary I can remember. The fact he has had to preside over some of the harshest cuts in a generation is hardly his fault.

[SAMXXV]

I suspect that "BOAC" might have known his replacement this morning.....:oh:

[glad rag]

"The Iraq war veteran, Col Tim Collins, a friend of Mr Fox, says he should perhaps have waited for the report's findings"


Well.
I.
Never.

[foldingwings]

Shame! Hounded out by the bl**dy press again!

Foldie:{

[airborne_artist]

Apparently he actually handed the resignation letter to Oliver Letwin on Tuesday but the binmen only found it today.

[higthepig]

Shame! Hounded out by the bl**dy press again!

Will the next be the one who threw waste paper in a bin. (Shock horror)

Was a little disappointed in the sandpit last year, when I was told to be quiet one night as Dr Fox was in the room above, couldn't hear him spinning any discs and then found out it wan't a member of the CSE party.

Clearedtoroll, I agree and wonder who is waiting in the wings to fill the post.

[Just This Once...]

Philip Hammond???

[November4]

Philip who...?

Just seen that someone has already updated Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_of_State_for_Defence)with his name.

[Helen49]

Crying shame; Hammond was doing a good job at transport.

[Eminence Gris]

Now that Fox has actually gone, how long before he disowns the SDSR, quoting his own leaked letter as evidence. Now just who did leak that letter?

EG

[The Helpful Stacker]

November4 - What is quite depressing looking through that link you provided is that Geoff Hoon is/was the longest serving SoS for Defence since the post was created.

I still want to know what dirt he had on Blair to stay in role for so long whilst being so useless?

[Trim Stab]

I too am sorry to see Fox go - he did a good job in pushing through hard choices in difficult times.

DC has appointed a good successor though. Hammond will be a very hard negotiator and will ruthlessly define what we really need and what we can't afford.

[Wrathmonk]

will ruthlessly define what we really need and what we can't afford

Unfortunately we (allegedly) need everything and can (definitely) afford nothing!:{

[NutLoose]

There was a post on an MSN thread that said something along the lines that

Dr Fox would show himself to be weak in resigning, But Cameron would show himself to be even weaker in not sacking him before he resigned....


End of the day he wasn't responsible for the cuts, simply enforced them..

[Ray Dahvectac]

Adam Werritty has apparently offered to stay on and help the new Defence Secretary "in any way I can". :E

[NutLoose]

Naaa, I bet he would be a right pain in the arse........... :E:E

[high spirits]

Let's face it, no one wants the Defence brief. It's like the Defence Against the Dark Arts teacher in Harry Potter....no one ever lasts much more than a year.

Poison chalice among politicians. At least Fox was robust with the idiots, even if the cuts were dressed up as a strategic review.

[NutLoose]

Let's face it, no one wants the Defence brief

Adam Werritty probably collects them, frames them and hangs them on his wall.........


ohhh you said brief and not briefs.... :E

[fincastle84]

Adam Werritty probably collects them, frames them and hangs them on his wall.........

Are you daring to suggest that there was something untoward in the relationship between the ex-Minister & his consort (sorry, friend)? Wash your mouth out!:=

[charliegolf]

At least he won't have to keep a pretence of service impartiality any more. He can go back to being a brown job!

CG

[jamesdevice]

at least non-one has suggested that he's been having a hard time recently

[Ray Dahvectac]

I'm sure he'd rather be on gardening leave (of some sort).

[Ogre]

If it's not too late for contenders I would like to Propose Mr Clarkson for the job. By that I mean Jeremy, not any politician by that name.

Could be interesting in question time....

[ColinB]

Why not a return for Boris Johnson, the most belligerent man in the UK?

[Widger]

Real shame. The first SoS in a long long time that actually wanted to be at the MoD, understood the brief and, as a previous poster has said, wanted to make a difference. He was unfortunately handed a whole load of cr@p from his predecessor and was indeed left holding the baby.

Phil Hammond is another good man but has also just overseen a 20% cut in staff at the DfT.

Shame about the gloating and the homophobic jokes because the MoD has lost a good man today!

[Royalistflyer]

Post-service I worked behind the scenes in Westminster. In my view Fox could have and should have fought a great deal harder to protect the RAF and RN from cuts. Unfortunately we just don't have real blood and guts politicians these days - just PC people everywhere.

In my view, we don't need that much of an army - just Special Forces. But we do need an Air Force and a Navy. We don't need to be in Afghanistan and should be out of there yesterday - its eating far too much scarce cash that we could better use in re-equiping the Air Force and Navy.

Libya should tell us our likely future needs.

[Exascot]

A real shame. The best SoS for Defence in a very, very long time. And, at least he had some experience of working with the military. Hammond does seem like a good chap for the job but let's wait and see.

[T-21]

Fox,Letwin good riddance how did they ever get to their positions. What a load of idiots supposed to be running the country. More heads should roll . Cameron get a grip ! :ugh:

[tucumseh]

I think this is sad, but inevitable. He should have learned his lesson.

He was caught dissembling to Parliament when he announced the Mull of Kintyre verdict (saying CHART only applied to Mk1 etc). He was asked no less than 3 times on the day and many times in subsequent correspondence, but stuck to the MoD briefing until relenting a couple of weeks ago. Too late, as the aim was achieved - protect VSOs.

When Labour MP Jim Mann asked him about trips with his mate, he adopted the same weasel word approach, not directly answering the question. "I didn't travel with him to (wherever)". Strictly speaking true, but not answering the question. The dissembling was a red rag to red Jim. (Who conveniently ignores that his own party's Ministers, and indeed most politicians, dissembled like this on a daily basis). Again, his officials were involved, because surely they should have advised him correctly?

Hoisted and petard comes to mind. It is too much to ask, but when oh when will they learn to tell the truth. Their lies always point to the truth in the end. MoK being a case in point.

But what concerns me most is that an otherwise really quite good SoS is gone, to be replaced by a Treasury puppet (watch out for the cuts Fox prevented being resurrected) yet the serial liars who brief Ministers remain. As Fox breached the Ministerial Code, so too have they breached the Civil Service Code - the two are closely aligned. Why are these people not sacked or pushed out? Because the investigations are carried out by their own - in this case, Brennan and O'Donnell.

Stinks I'm afraid. But I'd be happier seeing Fox make a comeback than I was about Mandelson.

[Pontius Navigator]

adopted the same weasel word approach, not directly answering the question.

It was ever thus. I recall having an item in Private Eye drawn to my attention.

The PQ was "How many cases of smallpox have there been in UK between . . . "

The answer was "There have been no cases of smallpox in the indigenous population since . . . "

Private Eye then translated to:

"There have been cases of smallpox amongst the immigrant population."

They are just expert at answering the question they want to answer and not the question they have been asked.

Yesterday Malcolm Rifkind was asked if he would accept the position of SoS. He responded that he had been SoS and that he had no wish to be SoS again. He NEVER said NO.

[The Old Fat One]

For those who think he was doing a good job, or on top of his brief, etc etc, i would like to take issue on two grounds.

First, the so-called defence review was no such thing. It was a mish mash of cost cutting, opportunism and military turf battles. This man presided over it. When interviewed about the outcomes he obfuscates in true political fashion. We can debate the logic of this cost-cutting bodge job for ever and a day, but the oft repeated statement he makes that we have lost no capabilities is a lie...pure and simple.

Second, taking your best mate on 18 business trips is wierd. If the guy is making money of the back of these trips it's corruption. If the guy is having fun at the taxpayers expense it's fraud. If the guy is none of the above and he is not employed by Fox and they are not in realtionship" wtf is he doing there? One or twice maybe...why not. Eighteen times..are you kidding me?

The conclusion I get is..

He is corrupt...

or

He is fraudulent...

or

He is a liar (about his personal life)

or

He is just plain nuts

or

All of the above.

IMHO .....not fit for purpose.

[Just This Once...]

I agree with TOFO and we have not heard the last of this affair.

If, as it appears, this mysterious chap was in the employ of defence lobbyists then all hell will descend on the Capability areas of MoD. This particular cuckoo was with the SoS as we went through the most painful and savage cuts for a generation.

A number of major defence contractors who saw their particular cash-cow slashed in SDSR will be reaching for their lawyers Blackberry number to find out if they have a claim against the MoD if a lobbyist funded by others had unfair access and influence over the SoS during such a turbulent defence review. This could cost the MoD dearly and the parsimonious treasury will not come to the rescue if this leads to major payouts and the wider defence budget will probably take the financial pain.

This is not good news for any of us.

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

The MoD may have lost a good man on Friday (I have yet to be convinced); however, he was responsible for the MoD losing 922 good men and women on 1 Sep - with another 4000 to go.

Duncs:ok:

[Finnpog]

Has the MoD lost a good man? Well, he may have had a number of good qualities, but he played fast and loose with being in the sphere of influence of defence companies and arguable foreign powers.

None of that is in the national interest IMO.

There are already rumblings in the media about the firms of certain financial backers appearing to have not done badly out of SDSR, which if true sits (for me) somewhere on the continuum between insider trading, corruption and treason.

[The Old Fat One]

I agree with TOFO and we have not heard the last of this affair.


Appears we will be hearing more quite soon...this from the BBC today


Mr Fox's conduct is being investigated by Cabinet Secretary Sir Gus O'Donnell and a report is due to be published early next week.
It is expected to be very critical of his actions.


Look how DC has played this. From the get go he was cautious in his support but prompt in his demands for action. Leave out the obligatory political niceties and it was crystal clear to me last week that he thought this dude is going down...stand well clear.

[The Old Fat One]

There are already rumblings in the media about the firms of certain financial backers appearing to have not done badly out of SDSR, which if true sits (for me) somewhere on the continuum between insider trading, corruption and treason.

Interesting...

My view of the SDSR was that the outcomes were intellectually incoherent...with cockup over conspiracy as the driving force.

Three factors in play..

1. The key political players LF, DC & GO (and their advisors) know the square root of **** all about matters military.

2. The MOD input was just a vehicle for the services to fight each other (absoloutely no change there then!)

3. The military industrial complex had its foot firmly in the door, waving contracts about like confetti.

If it turns up (not that "it" will ever be allowed to "turn up"), that the third factor from the list above was the key determinant and that vested individual financial adgendas were in play...then I am in your gang.

Treason.

[BOAC]

Sure the Cabinet Secretary should be listed as 'GOD' or 'Sir God'?

Can we read anything into his 'retirement'?

[minigundiplomat]

Typical Labour double standards. Introduce a ban with hunting with dogs and then start chasing a Fox.....

[Melchett01]

Hammond does seem like a good chap for the job but let's wait and see.

Really? Do we really need another multi-millionaire business man & consultant who knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing at a time when Defence is already reeling? Somehow I think Mr Hammond's business instincts aren't going to do us any favours.

[DozyWannabe]

I agree with TOFO and we have not heard the last of this affair.

If, as it appears, this mysterious chap was in the employ of defence lobbyists then all hell will descend on the Capability areas of MoD. This particular cuckoo was with the SoS as we went through the most painful and savage cuts for a generation.

What, you mean (among other things) the axing of various projects that, while expensive, would have at least kept the money in our economy and instead diverting that money to Septic military contractors who wined and dined the pair around the world?

Say it ain't so... :E

[Trim Stab]

who knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing at a time when Defence is already reeling


Yes - to counter the arguments of top brass who know the value of everything but the cost of nothing. The country is broke and we will end up like Greece if we don't radically cut spending.

[racedo]

Really? Do we really need another multi-millionaire business man & consultant who knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing at a time when Defence is already reeling? Somehow I think Mr Hammond's business instincts aren't going to do us any favours.

Dunno as he is wealthy anyway then the need to have dodgy groups pay for advisers is unlikely to happen.

He also has no history in visiting despot regimes like Sri Lanka paid for by even more suspect Govt and agencies.

More you look at Fox the more you get the impression that he was always destined for Sec Defence with the idea pushed by Tory backers.

[Melchett01]

The country is broke and we will end up like Greece if we don't radically cut spending.

We already have. Whilst not privvy to the figures, my gut instinct tells me many more cuts and we will beyond a point of being a viable military. But maybe that's the intention and you can get rid of us in total.

Just think how many RBS Christmas parties the defence budget could fund!

[None of the above]

It appears that he has returned to the medical profession:

Doctor Fox: Online Doctors Prescriptions and Pharmacy (http://www.doctorfox.co.uk/)

[BarbiesBoyfriend]

A fox ate two of my chickens this morning! Dammit.:sad:

[Doctor Cruces]

TOFO,

Re your post on previous page.

You could have saved your typing finger by writing....

"He's a politician"...

Covers everything you said.
You should have realised he was lying because his lips were moving!

Doc C

[The Old Fat One]

Oddly enough, I thought the same thing myself:ok:

[DozyWannabe]

Yes - to counter the arguments of top brass who know the value of everything but the cost of nothing. The country is broke and we will end up like Greece if we don't radically cut spending.

That's just an excuse the Tories are using to foist their austerity plan on the less well-off. Our economy is nothing like Greece's - our biggest weakness is exposure to the whims of the financial services industry (which is the only world-class industry we have left after Thatcher's and Major's slash-and-burn).

[neilmac]

Seeing him today , only saying sorry for breaching the ministerial code and saying national security wasnt breached.....eh we take his word do we? Left the RAF after 20 years just 2 years ago myself and now going back on a base I need to go through a new security screening which no probs with but the man at the top lets his mates in. The mans arrogance today unreal , he does truly believe he hasnt done any wrong!!