More Costs at Shoreham

[Poltergeist]

Hi all, word of warning.

I have been flying at shoreham for several years and always fed the pay and display meters. I was told that when I went away overnight or if i was late back and overan the parking ticket it was ok because i was flying there and they did not have clamps.
I have not been there for a while and got my ticket and overan accidentally.
I came to my car to find it had been clamped. he release fee was £85 plus £5 surcharge for paying with a debit card!
I paid and wrote to the airport saying that on top of flying costs and practicalities I was not happy. I got a reply that it was signed etc etc. nothing about the customer care issues.
I have accepted I had to pay but will not carryout any further flying from there. Goodwood and Redhill are convenient for me also and appear to be more aviation orientated and cheaper

PG

[140KIAS]

In Scotland clamping is viewed as extortion and has been outlawed. Time England caught up.

[Poltergeist]

I have since found that several others have been caught by this. One concern being voiced but ignored is if you fly away and the weather deteriorates, will the pressure of £90 fine drive some to take off when they should stay on the ground?

Shoreham charges £20 landing fees, I have already found my alternative and with the Flying I have cancelled, even if the airport got the full amount from the release fee, they are still in deficit. The organisation hiring the aircraft has lost considerably more.

I asked what happens when you take a plane away for a few days and there is at present no system to pay for more than one day so you will get clamped. A great understanding of aviation in the airport management then.................:ugh:

or maybe, just maybe, this is the Plymouth scenario the owners making business difficut to justify closing it and building on the land??????

[LysanderV8]

There is a system to pay for more than one day. Go to the helpful ladies on the information desk in the terminal and pay £2 per day and they will give you a ticket to put in your car specifying the date that it expires. You need to park in the long term parking area. If you are not certain about your date of return, perhaps paying a day or two extra is better than risking a clamping.

[jollyrog]

Small claims them. £90 and the principles you identify are worth the effort. See if they turn up and attempt to justify their charge.

[robin]

There is a system to pay for more than one day. Go to the helpful ladies on the information desk in the terminal and pay £2 per day and they will give you a ticket to put in your car specifying the date that it expires. You need to park in the long term parking area. If you are not certain about your date of return, perhaps paying a day or two extra is better than risking a clamping.

Surely an easier system is to pay on exit.

How can you know when you are able to return. You might know when you plan to return but incidents and weather can conspire to prevent that. It would be much easier to buy a ticket on entry and pay as you leave.

Or do they, like many other places, want the fines for over-staying?

[Sensible]

Silvaire1, every entry point to the airfield is blocked off so you would have to fly your car in if you wanted to "park the car in the hole the airplane came out of" and you would have to pay 33 bucks landing fee and pay for the coffee if you were thirsty! Yes, GA is really friendly in the UK; you should recommend it to your friends :(

Robin, The car park is open, there are no barriers, it is "pay and display" only

[IO540]

Shoreham has struggled with parking control for more years than I can remember.

For many years, you could park anywhere. It kind of worked, except that the place was exploited as a free car park for car pools (car sharing, whereby four people drive in, park 3 cars for the day, and then continue to the workplace in the 4th car).

Then Northbrook College got going and this soaked up a lot of parking, making the old system unworkable. Students have too much money these days :)

Today, based pilots and employees can get permits, which entitle them to specific car parks. Visitors have to pay up on a meter. This seems to control the traffic, though the restaurant business has gone way down AFAICT.

The present £90 fine size is way OTT, although you do get a £90 ticket at any number of streets in Brighton.

[Poltergeist]

IO540, re based pilots permits, it does not seem to apply to us renters. My ticket overan by about 25mins. The chance of adding £90 to hire costs if I have to delay getting back because of the weather has made my mind up, business to another field. I have paid my fee and the thread was a warning to others but as someone who has run a full blown sms in the aviation industry I am concerned that the pressure on pilots to return when they should not has not been considered.
GA is having a hard enough time, I am told that Shoreham itself is down on movements and fees. I am further told that the airport mgt is from the retail sector and not aviation. If all this is true, the future of the place is far from assured and discouraging pilots seems an odd tactic

[Weeeee]

If memory serves, the way this kind of thing works is the owner of the land wants to control parking, but not employ their own staff to set up the operation, so outsources to a "private parking control firm". These guys usually get to keep a significant amount of each clamp release fee, so are incentivised to clamp whenever possible.

It's the devils own bargain. I've seen a landowner arguing with the clamper about not fitting a clamp to a member of staff's car, the answer was sod off and read your contract.

Sooner they're gone the better ...

[ShyTorque]

You could also submit a "CHIRP" report highlighting the flight safety implications.

[Jan Olieslagers]

I once visited this a/d driving, and found the atmosphere so unenjoyable that I swore never to come there flying.
Of course, one should never say "never"...

Sad for the beautiful historic terminal building, couldn't this be protected or classified for its artistic/cultural interest?

[Danscowpie]

Sad for the beautiful historic terminal building, couldn't this be protected or classified for its artistic/cultural interest?

The terminal is indeed, a grade two listed building but the current owners have neglected the upkeep of the exterior and seem hell bent on being served with an extremely expensive legal order to do what must be done, before they have to do it.

Back to the original post, there are signs quite clearly displaying the costs of parking, the potential costs for not paying the appropriate fee and, as Lysander quite correctly points out, Poltergiest could have easily avoided the whole issue if he'd bothered to spend 5 minutes enquiring.

I am rather intrigued as to ShyTorque's assertion that it's a safety implication - do tell old chap....:confused:

[IO540]

and found the atmosphere so unenjoyable

Can you elaborate?

[rans6andrew]

you could propose that the airport issues ONE permanent parking permit per hire aircraft, to be given to the hirer when he signs for the aircraft and bills his rental until the permit and the aircraft are returned intact. Sorted.

Rans6....

[Jan Olieslagers]

Quote:
and found the atmosphere so unenjoyable
Can you elaborate?

Only vaguely, it has been several years, and memory was never my strong point. Still I do recall how weird it felt to have to pay for parking at a G/A aerodrome. 't Was on a nice sunday afternoon somewhere this time of year, and there were a fair number of people, mostly seniors, enjoying the fresh air and the sights of plane traffic. Even then I had a feeling spectators were only tolerated, probably grudgingly, and sure enough after sundown I was chased off the premises, none too gently either.
The contrast with any G/A field in France or Italy or even Germany couldn't have been greater. Possible exception for bizjet oriented fields close to main cities like Frankfurt or Paris, I never visited any of these.
The closest I remember is Sabadell, but that is quite in a different class of airfield. And even if I was chased off there too, after sundown, it was by a uniformed gentleman who was polite and helpful and much educated, he actually could and did speak two foreign languages. None of these could be said for the brutish chap pushing me out of Shoreham.

[patowalker]

That's strange. I went for my medical last November and there was free parking in front of the terminal.

[Jan Olieslagers]

Again, my memories are old and vague, but it could be that you are mentioning a few places limited to short-term parking? Perhaps they weren't implemented at the time of my visit, or I may never have seen them.

[ShyTorque]

I am rather intrigued as to ShyTorque's assertion that it's a safety implication - do tell old chap....

The thought of getting wheel clamped might tempt an inexperienced / budgetarily challenged pilot on a landaway to return to the airfield in marginal weather when he would be far safer on the ground elsewhere. "Press-on-itis" kills unwary pilots. We can all think of at least one.

[IO540]

Only vaguely, it has been several years, and memory was never my strong point. Still I do recall how weird it felt to have to pay for parking at a G/A aerodrome. 't Was on a nice sunday afternoon somewhere this time of year, and there were a fair number of people, mostly seniors, enjoying the fresh air and the sights of plane traffic. Even then I had a feeling spectators were only tolerated, probably grudgingly, and sure enough after sundown I was chased off the premises, none too gently either.
The contrast with any G/A field in France or Italy or even Germany couldn't have been greater. Possible exception for bizjet oriented fields close to main cities like Frankfurt or Paris, I never visited any of these.
The closest I remember is Sabadell, but that is quite in a different class of airfield. And even if I was chased off there too, after sundown, it was by a uniformed gentleman who was polite and helpful and much educated, he actually could and did speak two foreign languages. None of these could be said for the brutish chap pushing me out of Shoreham.I am not aware of any recent-past or present policy to evict plane spotters after certain hours, unless they are airside in which case it is arguably correct to not have people wondering about there.

AFAIK all of Shoreham airport, except obviously airside, is a publicly accessible road.

Maybe the bit in front of the restaurant closes when the restaurant closes.

Still I do recall how weird it felt to have to pay for parking at a G/A aerodrome. Welcome to the UK. Parking is treated as a profit centre over here.

The average Brit doesn't want to subsidise somebody else, and then is suprised that somebody else doesn't want to subsidise him.

To be fair to Shoreham, they had to do "something" to control the parking situation which had over recent years become totally unworkable. They could have more parking space but where to put that?

What could be done to help renters? Some sort of parking permit perhaps.

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

Another place to avoid... Went there a couple of times last month. Landing fee cost more than it did to fly there - what did I get? Just a load of hassle from an overbearing ATC and all the usual hi-viz nonsense...... The restaurant is empty and the place smacks of a failing airport being propped up by industrial units.

There are better places to frequent these days in the South east, none charge more than £10 to land, and you can park ya car for free!:ok:

My own personal views of course. Other views are available

[JW411]

I find this whole thread quite frankly quite pathetic. For the last seven years (until recently when I sold my aircraft) I was an aircraft owner at Shoreham.

I always paid to park my car for that was part of the deal about flying from Shoreham (the person who said that you could park in front of the terminal for free until recently is talking unmitigated bullsh*t).

What is so difficult about putting £2 in a machne for a day or walking up to the front desk and getting a ticket for the long term car park for £4 for a weekend in Le Touquet?

As for the parking fees at Shoreham being a flight safety hazard; if you really think that to avoid forking out £100 to save your car being clamped is really going to affect your flight planning, then quit flying now for you are surely going to put yourself in harms way.

Remember the principle of the "6 Ps".

Prior
Planning
Prevents
Piss
Poor
Performance

[Time Traveller]

I dont think its pathetic at all JW. What is pathetic is defending bottom feeding clampers or any organisation that engages them. Clamping high revenue resident clients is particularly short sighted.

It depends how you use your aeroplane. I like to blast off abroad on a whim when I get some spare time, and return when I feel like. The last thing I want in the equation is worrying about when my parking ticket expires. Beats me what the 6Ps have got to do with it - I want my P's to involve preparing the aeroplane for flight - not chasing around paying for parking. Why can't they use annual windscreen stickers for residents?

Also my experience of flying into Shoreham is not particularly positive, so I avoid it.

[Sensible]

I have to say that I have been flying a bit at Shoreham recently and found the ATC there very friendly and accommodating. Parking charges are a fact of life these days and Shoreham is no different to any other place except the charges are lower so it is not out of the question to expect a pilot to plan in advance for a possible delay and even pay for additional parking time to cover the eventuality of a flight delay. Come on! 2 quid a day isn't going to break the bank! If it was free there would be nowhere to park because of commuter parking. Hi vis jackets? Didn’t see an over proliferation of these, certainly I never wear one airside!

[seymour beaver]

Landing fees are £20+ touch and goes are £8+ a cup of coffee in the terminal building is three million quid why moan about parking fees!!

[Poltergeist]

Interesting comments about planning, and if you think the thread pathetic then try reading the original post. I started this threat purely to warn others. If you are talking planning guys then interesting that they have been clamping in the staff carpark as well. I do not object to paying, as said, I overan. When security were employed they used to ticket cars with a warning. My surprise was caused as i had not parked there since the 1st september when this regime started.
I asked the question retrospectively about long term permits and it appears that not all the schools are aware that these exist and when I asked the question of airport management such a scheme was not even mentioned. A comms issue I feel.
Whilst some may say that the urge to get back to save the fine should give up flying, the point was made because we do not live in a perfect world and another factor may just be the tipping point. Sadly there have been too many tragedies caused by the return at all cost syndrome. An aerodrome should surely not add to that? not really in the spirit of what SMS is trying to achieve.
I have a choice as they do. They choose this path and I have decided to fly elsewhere as have others I have been contacted by since. The airport has been closed due to administration once in recent times, I have had some great flying from there but surely aviation sites will only survive as such if they are managed with aviation as the primary not secondary business.

[ShyTorque]

JW411,

As for the parking fees at Shoreham being a flight safety hazard; if you really think that to avoid forking out £100 to save your car being clamped is really going to affect your flight planning, then quit flying now for you are surely going to put yourself in harms way.


You think that after 38 years of flying, all but the first three for a living, I should know better and quit? :hmm:

No, I stand by my statement. I'm still here.... at times resisting some fairly heavy attempts by others to give me "press-on-itis", including during offshore SAR work in a previous role. Unfortunately, many others aren't here, having pressed on once too often, some, in the cold light of day, for relatively unimportant reasons. For the inexperienced, cash strapped young ppl, I wouldn't discount £100 as an unlikely reason to consider pressing on.

Examples that immediately spring to mind: One ended with two lost in the sea off Blackpool after running out of fuel in IMC (inexperienced PPL didn't refuel fuel after previous leg, probably due to concerns about payment). Another (a helicopter this time) finished in a smoking heap in a wood in the early hours, killing all on board, one reason being that a liferaft was at the destination and the following day's flight required it.

[dublinpilot]

It seems to me, that the problem here isn't the parking charges (£2 per day seems to be quoted and would pail into insignificance in terms of flying costs). Rather the problem seems to be that you need to know when you will be returning which, particularly for VFR flyers, isn't always so accurate.

If a system could be found to allow people to 'check in' when they park and then pay when they are leaving, then I doubt many would complain, and the safety issue would be gone.

I admit though that that would probably require some investment and also require people to use a credit card for pre authorisation.

dp

[mad_jock]

Come on all it would take is a clip board on the front desk.

Pay 10 quid up front when you park there for a day and get the rest back if you come back and the balance when you eventually do get back if things have gone tits up.