Seem to be getting worse

[ChasG]

4 weeks ago I started in the circuit. First hour was pretty poor because I felt overloaded. Second hour went really well and with some assistance with the power the landings were good.

Since then the circuits have been good but the landings have gone completely to pot - I have bounced, landed on one wheel, ballooned, didnt round out and flew it straight on to the runway, floated. I think I have had just about every conceivable landing cock up except a crash.

I have done a total of 25 lessons to date and begin to wonder if I am ever going to get the hang of it. After the second hour in the circuit I thought this is not difficult at all but now it looks like a brick wall

[The500man]

Sounds like you might benefit from taking a break from circuits. Ask your instructor to move onto navigation for a lesson or two. You'll still get to have a go at landing at the end of the lesson, and it should give your brain the chance to recover from all the circuit bashing.

[SDB73]

It may also be that four weeks ago, when you started there was a lot less wind, and certainly the last week or so has seen this change.

If so, you MAY be being overly critical? When the air is silky smooth there are very few anomolies to worry about in the flare. But an unexpected gust (even a small one) can make quite a difference if you've been used to none.

Good advice from 500man as well. Having a break and coming back to it will do you good.

You're just starting. It takes time, but it'll come.

[2high2fastagain]

Stick with it. It happened to me as well.

Something that worked for me was to have the instructor periodically take one of the landings so I could see what 'right' looked like. I think it's a matter of training your body to do it. These days, it just seems to happen by 'feel'. I seem to be able to tell what's right and wrong without actively thinking and concentrating specifically on every piece of data. It will come and as a slow learner at least in the flying arena, I know that some people pick it up faster than others.

Advice I can give is to forget all the macho kidstalk about how few hours you went solo in, or how few hours it takes to qualify. Think instead about enjoying your flying and gathering experience to be a safe pilot. Oh, and when you get in the circuit for that next landing landing, tell yourself that this is going to be the best one yet.

[Morris542]

Keep at it. It will come to you. I was trying out a type I hadn't flown a couple of months ago with an instructor and kept f*****g the landings up, mainly because it was relatively new to me (different speeds and different view). I gave it a rest for a week, had another go and felt a lot more comfortable from then onwards...


I think I have had just about every conceivable landing cock up except a crash.


I see that as a positive, you understand what a bad landing looks and feels like; make the mistakes whilst a student so you can continue saying it!

[BEagle]

Sounds like you might benefit from taking a break from circuits. Ask your instructor to move onto navigation for a lesson or two.

Absolutely NOT!! All that would do would be to ensure that the spectre of circuits and landings was still lurking in the back of your mind, resulting in your not concentrating on anything else properly.

Don't run away from your present situation - face up to it and conquer it!

Find an instructor who can teach 'point and power'. It is a far more natural way of flying the approach and landing and is also the method which the RAF use.

[thing]

I have bounced, landed on one wheel, ballooned, didnt round out and flew it straight on to the runway, floated.Hey, you've nicked my landings............:) Stick at it, it will come and landings will just become automatic, you don't think about them, you just know when it looks and feels right. The important thing is not to stress about it, give it some time.

I'm a 'point and power' person as well, works a treat.

[pitofrost]

"Sounds like you might benefit from taking a break from circuits. Ask your instructor to move onto navigation for a lesson or two. You'll still get to have a go at landing at the end of the lesson, and it should give your brain the chance to recover from all the circuit bashing."

This is exactly what my instructor did with me and it worked. I did three dual navs (and the landings). Then when I came back to the circuit It all seemed to come together and I did my first solo quite soon thereafter.

[Dave Barnshaw]

I have about the same hours as you Chasg,and the same problem,so my instructor suggested some landings away to releive the tension for a while from 'circuit bashing',I have done four landings away at different airfields-and am now back to 'circuit bashing' at my local field,and it is getting much easier now,although not fully perfected yet,keep at it,you'll be o.k..:D

[IO540]

I agree.

Give the circuits a rest and actually go somewhere.

Circuits are a very high workload situation and a lot of people are not absorbing the stuff after a short while. I used to really hate circuits.

If you need to work on landings, fly around somewhere for 10 mins and then go for a landing (or a T&G).

Circuits go back to the military, where everybody is very young and brilliant. The 99% of undesirables have all been weeded out :)

[thing]

Circuits go back to the military, where everybody is very young and brilliantHo Ho, if only.....:). I was at Binbrook when the last intake of Lightning trainees came in. Not one of them passed the course.........

[Genghis the Engineer]

Ho Ho, if only.....:). I was at Binbrook when the last intake of Lightning trainees came in. Not one of them passed the course.........

Probably as well, I remember the old RAF joke about final approach checks on the Lightning...

- Gear down
- Flaps Full
- Eject Eject Eject.

:E G

[Pace]

Chas

You will get the hang of it when you stop trying and stop freezing up.

It is really strange how one bad experience landing creates a mental block.

I can remember from my motor racing formula ford days how we had a very short practice session to set our qualifying fastest laps.

Looking at the lap times and on the whole they would get faster until you overcooked and scared yourself.

Then the Lap times would drop off and take a whole load of laps to build back up to speed.

One very quick guy used what he called "mental override" to prevent that drop off in lap speeds following a scare.

If he scared himself by nearly loosing the car or a spin he mentally over rode his fear or caution by planting his right foot even harder and it worked.

What I am saying is throw your fear away, swear at the aircraft do any positive self talking to get yourself out of that grip! relax dont care and it will all come together.

Finally get a decent instructor :E

Pace

[Flyboater]

After several hours of general handling practice you have learned to relax and you feel confident that you can handle the aircraft with a reasonable degree of competance.
Now you are trying to develop a new skill at the point where you feel it may well hurt if you get it wrong, so quite naturally you tense up. That results in jerky control inputs and over / under controlling.
You must relax. Don't worry . This phase is perfectly normal for most students. It will come, and when it does you probably won't realise what you are doing differently. It will be the smoother, gentler and more accurate control inputs making the difference.

[abgd]

begin to wonder if I am ever going to get the hang of it.


It's actually normal, when learning a new skill, to go backwards once in a while. Sometimes it's associated with thinking too hard about what you're doing - which is also part of the process of learning to make more nuanced responses and cope with more demanding situations. Sooner or later it'll sort itself out.

[ChasG]

Thanks chaps for your responses - my main problem seems to be over compensating for an inconsistent approach. The circuits are fine until the final approach. I will keep trying and hopefully crack it.
The comments about not worrying about the hours was well received - talking to other students at denham most seem to tak between 20-30 hours to go solo and some a lot more
regards
chas

[Genghis the Engineer]

Thanks chaps for your responses - my main problem seems to be over compensating for an inconsistent approach. The circuits are fine until the final approach. I will keep trying and hopefully crack it.
The comments about not worrying about the hours was well received - talking to other students at denham most seem to tak between 20-30 hours to go solo and some a lot more
regards
chas

I did my instructors course at Denham and found it a pretty tough and unforgiving place to fly from - I can't say I'm surprised that the time to solo is fairly high.

Just keep enjoying it. Yes, I said enjoying it! Don't put yourself under pressure, and you'll get there.

G

[Pace]

The comments about not worrying about the hours was well received - talking to other students at denham most seem to tak between 20-30 hours to go solo and some a lot more

Part of the clue is in the above with you. It really does not matter how many hours you take.
As you said your circuits are good and precise its when you turn onto the final approach that the Gremlins hit.
Maybe have a chat with your instructor and do some circuits where you do not land.
ie all the approach and flying down the runway at 5 -10 feet.
It may help to try a big runway with clear approaches as Denham can be quite daunting?
Above all see it as fun not how many hours you are or are not taking

Pace

[CharlieDeltaUK]

I've not heard of 'point and power' before. What is it?

[mcgoo]

Point and power you use the elevator to keep the aiming point constant in the screen and the throttle to maintain the speed rather than using elevator for speed and throttle for rate of descent.

[athonite]

Either method works well, for the private pilot using power to control ROD, and attitude to control speed, works very well if taught properly.

Point and power works well and its favoured by the RAF basically because their pilots will find point and power useful, as they go onto larger faster aircraft.

Stick with the method you originally started.

[Pull what]

Either method isnt the problem, the OP has a problems with landings-that the bit that happens after the approach, the bit most instructors seem to struggle with being able to explain.

[mad_jock]

I posted this on a previous thread,

Although light hearted I have actually used it as a brief a few times to great success.

You need to be spot on with your trim and at the right speed.

If you could please tell us your aircraft type and what speed you are flying the approach at. And also if you are require to hold the 3deg PAPI's.

Then do as it says below, have a laugh get rid of of the built up tension. Most aircraft land in spite of the students miss handling. The trick is to fly it less not more.


Your proberly missing the vital phrase.

First of all get the instructor to show you the landing picture.

As you fly down the approach make sure your trimmed.

As the runway appears to starts moving towards you pitch the nose up to the straight and level attitude.

As the runway sides start coming up towards you pitch to the previously demonstrated picture while putting the power to idle. Waggle the rudder pedals so the instructor thinks your actually doing something with them.

Hold the attitude. Now this is the important bit.

In a loud clear voice say "get down you whore"

Once the aircraft has done as its told hold the same picture by increasing back pressure then lower the nose gently to the runway while continuing to pretend you know what your doing with the rudder.

Jobs a goodun.

PS ladys can substitute bastard instead of whore

PPS this method works up to 10 tons in my experience