EK rosters

[shoreline]

Hi there

Is there a way to see an actual EK roster without working there.

Could somebody post it or email it to me, an ex-EK maybe.

I am really interested in EK but I heard/read the new rosters suck

Thanks

[canadansk]

It is not possible to produce a representative roster. Every month is different and it also varies depending on fleet.

[shoreline]

What I ment is, in my company, we get our next month roster on our mail in PDF format around de 27 or the 28 of each month.

So, if that's the case could somebody fwd me let's say, september's roster or april's, specially a 777 fo roster.

Just to get an idea.

[Mr Good Cat]

But as has already been said, even on the 777 there is no typical roster.

I bid against long flights going eastbound but am happy to do ULR's westbound to the USA.

I have been averaging about 60 hours a month recently due to all the new hires coming online. Some months as low as 30, some as high as 80.

My yearly total is running at about 700.

I've done probably about 5-6 night turns in the last 12 months with mostly USA trips and EU trips, plus the odd CMB / LOS / CAN etc as layovers.

MGC

[fatbus]

It really depends on what is your preference. Some like ULR some avoid them, some like turns and others don't . So a better question would be what % of bid satisfaction do pilots average.

[MagicCarpet]

Here’s my estimation of a “typical” Airbus 330 roster at Emirates.

Bottom Bid: A full month of night turns with 1 or 2 day turns or a layover if you’re lucky
2nd Bottom: A full month of night turns with 1 or 2 day turns or a layover if you’re lucky
Middle Bid: A full month of night turns with 1 or 2 day turns or a layover if you’re lucky
2nd Top: A full month of layovers with maybe 1 or 2 day or night turns
Top Bid: A full month of layovers with maybe a turn thrown in

I did run across one or two guys in the bottom 3 bid groups who did a little better, but those are outliers, definitely lucky and the exception to the rule. My theory is EK manually loads one to two of those a month to give guys false hope that it’s really not so bad on the Airbus. Most guys I looked at got what I described above. Even the cabin crew know Airbus pilot rosters stink. And don’t think you’re always going to get a layover in your bottom 3 bid months. They only assign you one if they can’t get you enough hours with all the short-hop crap turns you’ll be flying in the middle of the night.

And don’t necessarily count on going to the 340 any time soon to improve your roster. There are a lot of FOs already waiting to go from the 330 to 340. Last I heard, they are only transitioning 4 FOs a month, which of course could change tomorrow. But all the 340-300s are slated to be gone by the end of 2012 whereas EK has decided to keep the 330s so you’ll likely be getting lots of night turns for years to come. Yippee.

On the other hand, when I look at the rosters of mates on the 777 their trips, schedules, destinations and days off look WAY better. To me, the Airbus & Boeing fleets are almost like 2 different airlines. And you’re stuck on the Airbus if you accept it. Fleet transfer is rarely done, and only if it suits EK’s needs.

My opinion: Do yourself a favor. Hold out for the 777.

[cf680c2b]

Magic, how many night turns do you guys do before you get days off? and how many days off?

If it takes 4 years to get to the 340 then who is going to the 380?

[MagicCarpet]

CF,

Guys going to the 380 have either been here a while or joined with a fair amount of time on aircraft with a MTOW of 55 tonnes or more so they can meet the 380 FO hard hours requirements. (See my post under EK 30 ton rule (http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/465113-ek-30-ton-rule-changed.html)) A lot of 330/340 FOs are faced with the conundrum of whether to go to the 380 because 2 years in the super would likely delay their upgrade on the 330, but after a few years in the right seat of the 330/340, the 380 rosters can be very tempting. For what it’s worth, EK did hire one direct entry 380 FO, who I believe flew the 380 at another airline.

[etops777]

He was a 380 FO with SQ.

[fatbus]

Keep in mind that the 777 will be the india queen when the 330 are gone, might know more about the 359 in Nov, a new 777 fo does not have a 777 to upgrade on( as per the fleet plan). TC says he is more than happy with the 359 its the 350 1000 that has to meet the perf numbers. Is the 359 EIS still 2013 so far Airbus is sticking to that maybe nore in Nov as well.

A few years ago AB was the fleet to be on now its the 777/380 and if you beleive things dont change over night here at EK than go 777 enjoy and dont complain.

Nov ref is dxb airshow

How many 777 are there now ? 100 plus you would need 200 plus for an upgrade, ya ya most will be heavy crew and will need more Capts - maybe!

[Wizofoz]

Fatb,

The smart money for the DXB show is on an order for more 777 Freighters and the launch of the 777NG with EK as a launch customer. The only thing likely to replace 777s any time soon is upgraded 777s.

[Craggenmore]

At the current rate it would be about 4 years for a new joiner FO to get to the 340

MagicCarpet - I know 4 FO's who joined in the autumn of 2010 who have 340 courses in November. Where are your figures from?

Do you have the 3000hr requirement yourself..?

[fatbus]

Wiz,

I agree but I dont think you will see a hugh new 777 order until the 777ng (2017), 777F yes a few maybe 10-12 and a few more 777 L/W s . Rumur in 30 380 ( 120 total) and 30 777( start the replacement progarm) at the airshow. Might see an update from Airbus about the 359 as well.I m guessing the 250 AC by 2020 might change but nothing offical on that yet. The talk lately is no planned move to DW stay at DXB. Terminal 2 to be rebuilt.

[MagicCarpet]

I know 4 FO's who joined in the autumn of 2010 who have 340 courses in November. Where are your figures from?

Heard it last time I passed through the training college for a PPC. As of today there are 148 A330 FOs on property who joined in the past 12mo. If the current rate of 340 course doesn’t pick up, it will likely be quite some time before a prospective new joiner would see the right seat of a 340, especially if the 340-300s are phased out next year as planned.

[TangoUniform]

One new joiner from Qantas, 380 F/O. Of course he was put on the Boeing.

[El Duque]

So the 777 guys with the 'good' schedules are getting 13 days off? That doesn't seem like that great of a schedule to me.

[falconeasydriver]

So the 777 guys with the 'good' schedules are getting 13 days off? That doesn't seem like that great of a schedule to me.

What a wonderfully insightful comment :hmm: Mayby you should turn down the offer of an interview?
The last 3 months I've averages 15 days off, and 17 nights at home in bed :E
Honestly, guys get upset when they dont get the GVA they bid for to visit their girlfriend etc etc, but if you bid a little less specifically, as an F/O I get about 75% of what I ask for.
Oh yeah, rolling 3 month average is 88 hrs for me.

[Enjoy the view]

How does the bidding work for a change of fleet? Say you start on the 777 and (with no previous experience) you would like to switch to the 330/340 or even 380? Or the opposite from the 330/340 to the 777?

[allaru]

"as an F/O I get about 75% of what I ask for" ....thats about as accurate as the level of English in the rest of the post.

What a crock, a company stooge I would suggest.

More often than not you will get nothing of what you bid for.

[what_goes_up]

Allaru, you might want to check your bidding strategy then... I am with falcon on this (777 LHS). But maybe your expectations are too high (or mine too low). But you cannot build your roster, just influence.

[falconeasydriver]

what a crock
"as an F/O I get about 75% of what I ask for" ....thats about as accurate as the level of English in the rest of the post.

What a crock, a company stooge I would suggest.

More often than not you will get nothing of what you bid for.

Thanks for your kind words allaru, I'm of the opinion that you are either being deliberately provocative, or perhaps you are somewhat emotionally and intellectually challenged when it comes to constructing your bid. Either way your opinion is yours and if thats your experience then perhaps a visit to the CRS guys might help you understand the system a bit better. Anyway my roster will be published in an hour or two...so I shall see.
As for being a company stooge, I think thats gonna get me few beers :ok:

[Wizofoz]

Enjoy the View,

There is no bidding between fleets, except at Company convenience due to surpluses or shortfalls, in which case vacancies are (theoretically!!) distributed on seniority (though a 330/340 - 777 move about 18 months ago was a c0ck up due to it being last minute and urgent).

There is a career progression from 330/340 to 380 as FO, back to 330 for command, then eventually 380 command.

On the 777 your only move is RHS-LHS, though there will supposedly be a chance for 777 pilots to progress to the 380 at some time in the future.

Note that there is no pay differential between fleets, so "Progress" is a relative term.

[falconeasydriver]

Just thought I'd share with Allaru my company stooge "crock" roster.

I bid for 88 hrs or less, roster block 87.8 hrs
I bid for a certain UK port, rostered 3 trips to this port
I bid for a specific ULR trip on a specific day such that it guaranteed me Christmas day off at home, result I got that trip.
I got a M/E evening turnaround finishing around midnight after starting at 7pmish (bid as a filler to make up the hours)
I was also rostered an EU flight that I didnt bid for.

So all in all a good roster for me, by my reckoning I got 90% of what I bid for overall, and the trip I specifically bid for, not bad imho for a mid bid roster, and indicative of what I get based on my understanding of the CRS system and how it works with regards to avoids and block hours.

I'll say it again, I get these rosters in my mid, second top and top bid, unlike lots of others who don't take an hour or two and invest the time to do their best to get the roster they desire.....and then moan:hmm:

I should add lastly, I have had a rubbish roster or two, but mostly they have been my fault, sure the system isnt perfect,but for the most part it is consistent

[cerbus]

Middle bid group, 45% in senority and all I got was Red-Eyes and midnight turnarounds. Decemeber and October were much better.
Go figure

[GoreTex]

15 days off on the whale, twice 5 in a row

[b737bbj]

Hi all,

Just bringing this thread up again... I am on the short-list to join and currently fly the A330 so if I was fortunate enough to get a gig, I would expect to join this fleet.

Can anyone let me know how often or likely it will be to get 5 days off in a row? I plan on travelling back to Australia occasionally (maybe once or twice a month). Does anyone reckon this is possible? Thanks.

[GoreTex]

Commuting to oz? on the 330 you can't even commute to Sharjah dude

[lfrk]

or even 3 days off in a row..
Just get the word "commuting" out of your mind !

[b737bbj]

Relax guys. I didn't mention commuting. Just curious if it was possible to get a series of days off in a row. Thanks though.

[CAYNINE]

...and if you did get the days off (which is unlikely) getting on an overbooked flight is even more challenging.

[ruserious]

330 pilots are getting a maximum of 8 days off a month, do the maths on that, when you apply FTL's.

[Geebz]

WADR.... 13 days off? That's sorta' tragic. Almost seems like no light at the end of the tunnel for you guys. I'd eventually go out of my mind working like that.

Our airlne minimum is 12 days off per month, all rosters start there and go up in days off. I average 18-20 days off, based on a 76-82 hours line. From there I either pick up a turn or two for extra cash or I don't. But every month I usually get a block of 7-10 days off somewhere in total days off. That's WITHOUT vacation time. For March I will work 3 on, 2 off (all day turns) until the 12th then off for 8 days, then a 5-day trip. then the last 4 days of the month off. So for April I'll bid for the first 8 off and viola, I have a 12 day off block, plus the 8 day off block I had in mid-March. Then later in April I'll get a 5-7 day off block somewhere. I build my schedule like that every month. And we're among the worst of all the US carriers in terms of days off/ schedule/ quality of life.

You all need to demand more. Don't you feel you deserve better? After the 90-day honeymoon of flying a shiney new WB jet, this business is all about lifestyle, ie, days off. Not what you fly, where you fly to, or whom you fly with. It's a job to afford me my days off and salary to enjoy my hobbies outside aviation.

We all fly the same hours per year, 700-1000 (depending on who's the whore/ who needs the cash most). How is it US pilots are able to get way more days off with the same net result flight time at the end of the year? I'll tell you, how: through negotiations. We have it in our contracts that our company schedules us as productively as possible while at work. They like it because it means less pilots needed. We like it because it means more days off.

Isn't it high time the pilots of the M.E. carriers wake up and mirror their US counterparts? Like I said, at the end of the year, we all put in the same number of hours in the cockpit, yet US pilots get 30-60% more time off.

Don't you guys get sick of working so much? And 9 days off for the 330? Yuck. Don't get me started there.

I'm sorry to hear all that. Hope you guys are able to eventually improve your QOL.

[Schnowzer]

How is it US pilots are able to get way more days off with the same net result flight time at the end of the year? I'll tell you, how: through negotiations.

Or....... Chapter 11 and furlough every 5 years?:p

[skyvan]

@Geebz. . . . . oh you poor soul! You really don't have a clue!

This is not the USA, indeed, this is not a democracy. As far as labour rights go, this is a benevolent autocracy at best.

There is no negotiation, there is no organised labour. We are not "guests" here, we are workers.

The reason we are here is because it is still one of the better gigs out there, inspite of the lack of time off and no union representation.

Please, next time you decide to comment on this part of the world, take off your blinkers, and see this place for what it is, and for what it is not. It is no where near as bad as many make it out to be, and it is obviously not as good as you think it should be, but it is the way that it is. And that is adequate for over 3000 pilots here, many of them your countrymen, the majority of whom seem quite happy.

Just remember, this ain't Kansas, but then, none of the roadsigns said it was!

[Rim-job]

Geeb'z....

You are on the crack pipe buddy.... There are a small percentage of guys in the USA getting those types of schedules. And unless you are flying long haul on a B747 or B777 you are lying through your teeth.

I worked in the USA for 14 years and all 3 of my brothers are working for US carriers. One is at JetBlue, one is at Southwest and the other is at a legacy (B757/B767). They are all lucky to have 12 days off.... maybe 13 or 14 on a good month. But this 12 as a minimum is a load of garbage.

You gotta wake up and be honest with yourself. Not saying EK is the best out there.... but this "USA carriers being the best" stuff is so far from the truth it's not funny.

I won't even touch on the fact that most of my buddies are either furloughed or just getting off of furlough.

[givemewings]

"negotiate".....

hahaha....! thanks for that I needed a laugh, I really did... :D

Seriously, coming from somewhere as unionised as the States, you might have a problem adjusting to how things work in this part of the world...

Pilots in the US might get a lot of days off, but how many of those are spent on commutable trips just to live somewhere they can afford a house, rather than their own base city, or sleeping on the floor with 5 others or in bunk beds in 'crash pads' because the wages are so low.... more than get those days off to spend loads of cash or "hobbies outside of aviation", I'd bet....

Some of them make less than the cabin crew!!! :\