PPL Between Countries

[martymcsly]

Hey There Everyone,

This is my first post here so please be gentle with me http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif!

I am seriously considering starting a course with the intention to obtain my private pilot license. I am currently living in Vancouver, Canada and working full time here. As I will only be able to fly at weekends and holidays, weather allowing (due to the fact that with winter creeping up on us I won't be able to fly in the mornings or afternoons/evenings) it will most likely take me quite some time to get my license.

I will be moving countries around April or May Next year (2012) either back to my native UK or to Sydney, Australia where I was previously working.

My question is this. If start my training here in Vancouver and fail to finish before I leave the country what are the chances of me being able to pick up where I left off in either Australia or the UK? Will any hours and exams taken here count toward my continuing studies in either Aus or UK or will I effectively have to start again when I finally make the move?

I really hope to be able to finish my training whilst here in Canada, for one thing it seems slightly less expensive here than my other options. For another thing I am eager to get cracking and up there flying ASAP!

I have a couple of other questions that I would like to throw at you knowledgeable bunch if I may be so bold!

I know winter in Vancouver is probably not the best time to start my training, has anyone has any experience starting their training here in the winter? Am I really going to be in for staring at the rainy grey skies cursing the weather when the weekends finally roll around? Potentially not being able to fly for weeks on end if the weekend weather isn't favourable for flight?! Or am I worrying too much about inclement weather hampering my progress?

Also I took a fam flight at The Pacific Flying Club at Boundary Bay airport, nr Vancouver. This is the nearest small airport to me (living in downtown van). The instructor seemed really nice and they seem to be fairly organised! I would love to hear from anyone who has trained there or is training there at the moment? Are these guys a good choice to give my hard-earned cash to? Are there any other schools I should consider in the area? I have heard bad things about Montair, mainly due to the fact that they spend most of their time and energy churning out Chinese pilots due to some contract or other?

Any feedback or thoughts any of you fine people have on the above things would be seriously, seriously appreciated!

[Gomrath]

Will any hours and exams taken here count toward my continuing studies in either Aus or UK or will I effectively have to start again when I finally make the move?

I would suggest that if you do start in Canada that you get every single log book entry for training undertaken - signed by the Instructor with his certificate number.
Your hours would be ICAO compliant and so would count if you then transfer to another ICAO country. Personally, I would not suggest that you do any written exam(s) in Canada - unless they are mandated to allow you to solo (sorry I do not know Canadian regs). If you were to go back to the UK, you would have to take all 7 of the CAA Private Pilot written exams regardless of any prior completed Canadian exam(s). I assume that the same applies with CASA.

[Whopity]

Your hours would be ICAO compliant and so would count if you then transfer to another ICAO country.Not under the EASA system about to be unleashed in Europe come April 2012!

A licence is transferable, bits of it are not.

[BillieBob]

Provided that they are flown in an EASA aeroplane, they will count towards the experience requirement but not, as Gomrath's post could be interpreted, towards the training requirement (i.e. 25hrs dual instruction, 10 hours supervised solo including QXC).

[IO540]

so training hours undertaken in one ICAO country (Canada) cannot count towards the 40 hours required to get a UK PPL - once EASA take over the asylum?They don't at present, AIUI.

All they would count for is towards the 100hrs for the 100hr license conversion route.

Provided that they are flown in an EASA aeroplaneThat's a nice bit of restrictive practice. What if they are flown in an N-reg, with a DfT approval, and with a JAR-FCL instructor, and in UK airspace to top it off nicely ?

I wonder what will happen to the present ability to do an IR in an N-reg in the UK, post 2012?

[ExSp33db1rd]

Wow ! Shows how much I know now, I was going to suggest that until you actually get a licence issued in any country, then an hours' flying as a student is an hours' flying as a student-providing that it can be verified by having each CFI sign your logbook as you move from Country to Country. DO THAT ANYWAY, one never knows, and sadly if you ask 3 people you will get five answers - all different, the only way is to read the various PPL requirements, which I guess you can do on the Internet now, if you have the time and patience !

Having got a licence, then getting it converted from Country to Country has always been a nightmare, for instance even between Aus. and NZ, 'cos even tho' there is a Trans Tasman Mutual Recognition Act, the rules are different for a PPL and a CPL. I would not have been able to fly as a PPL in Aus. on a NZ PPL, but I can fly Commercially in Aus. on a NZ CPL - which I didn't need, but I was able to apply for NZ CPL on the strength of my then UK ATPL, and with a NZ CPL in my hot sticky hands, then then applied for an Aus CPL as of right, and got it. As I was living in NZ I was asked why I wanted an Aus. CPL ? I told them because I could - read your own TTMRA !

I have now been downgraded to a Class II medical, i.e. PPL only, and so my Aus. CPL has been automatically downgraded to PPL privileges only as a result, but I can still use it in Aus. as a PPL, whereas if I had only ever had the NZ PPL I couldn't !

The Law is an Ass.

A million years ago I took 300+ hours of R.C.A.F. training back to the UK, and was granted a UK PPL when I asked for one. How things have changed !

Remember, log every hour and have your total constantly verified - you never know when it might pay off.

Best of luck !

[172driver]

First off - welcome to PPrune and hopefully soon to the aviators' 'club' !

If you are sure to move country in a few months' time, then, frankly, I wouldn't bother starting flight training now. Converting licenses is getting ever more complicated and transferring training even more so.

Here (UK), the asylum will probably be taken over by the worst-case lunatics (EASA) in April 2012. They seem hellbent on making everything five times as difficult as it already is, I guess you'll also have to swear allegiance to some Socialist European Dream (well, make that Nightmare, with a capital N).

Not 100% sure about Oz, although if you read the Oz forum here, that doesn't seem to be that much better.

Of course, if you can afford to start your training now but potentially having to start from scratch again wherever you go, then by all means, go for it. After all, nobody, not even EASA, can take your knowledge away!

Good luck!

PS: the above of course assumes that you will be leaving Canada for good and live for an extended period of time in either the UK or Oz.

[B4aeros]

martymcsy,

I've done a little research to establish some actual facts for you. The situation is a slightly complicated due to the impending change in regulations.

Tha CAA's interpretation of the current rules is LASORS 2010 (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=1591). The table on p45 says that their acceptance of your Canadian training is at the discretion of the CAA; a couple of paragraphs on p131 describe what you would need to do for your ICAO (non JAR) training to count towards a UK-issued JAR PPL.

The upcoming EASA regulations will allow ICAO training started prior to April 2012 to be credited towards the issue of a licence. Article 8 on p6 of this document (http://www.easa.eu.int/agency-measures/docs/opinions/2010/04/Draft%20Commission%20Regulation%20on%20personnel%20licensing %20%28LW%29.pdf) refers.

[Gomrath]

B4aeros
Thanks for clarifying my earlier post. I hadn't previously found the relevant piece in LASORS but based on your info I have copied and pasted it below.

In circumstances where previous flying training
towards an ICAO PPL(A) (non-JAR-FCL) has been
conducted but no licence has been issued, PLD will
consider the crediting of such flight time towards the
issue of a JAR-FCL PPL(A). In all cases, applicants
must apply in writing to PLD enclosing appropriate
training records and flying logbooks for the PPL
training received. PLD will review the training
records to establish a course of training and advise
the applicant accordingly.

[BillieBob]

IO540 wrote:That's a nice bit of restrictive practice. What if they are flown in an N-reg, with a DfT approval, and with a JAR-FCL instructor, and in UK airspace to top it off nicely ?
You clearly do not understand the definition of an 'EASA aeroplane'. Any aeroplane that is not listed in Annexe II to Regulation 218/2008 is an EASA aeroplane, irrespective of the state of registry, any UK government department, the qualifications of the instructor or where in the world it is being flown. Calm down, dear!