Nimrod – Rise and Fall

[Bevo]

According to my latest issue of SETP Cockpit, Tony Blackman’s book “Nimrod – Rise and Fall” is scheduled for release in November 2011. Same information on Amazon.

[stbd beam]

Almost right, the book will be launched at Duxford on Sunday 16th Oct at Tony's stand in the book sellers area, he'll be there all day. Signed copies only available through me or Tony's website (Google him).

From Tony:
This book is about an aircraft which was arguably the best reconnaissance aeroplane in the
world until it was scrapped prematurely by the government of the day under great financial
duress but, unfortunately, leaving the country almost defenceless from a long-distance maritime
reconnaissance point of view.
It is written especially for the general reader, rather than for Nimrod specialists, though I
hope that they will read it with interest and enjoy it. Not many people realise what a great job
the aircraft did because so much of its work was classified. Conversely they can’t comprehend
what a great loss it is to this country. My aim in writing this book is to let everyone know what
a superb aircraft it was and tell a few stories of all the things it could do.

A wee taster from the Prologue (1980 vintage):
“‘Radar to standby. Climbing’. As the airspeed bled back towards 230 knots and we started to
regain the radio signals from the sonobuoys further away in the field on only our second climb
to height, the lead wet underwater equipment operator came on the intercom, ‘Captain – Jez.
We’ve got an interesting line on buoy 14.’ ‘Yet another nuclear-powered Grimsby trawler’ I cynically
thought, instead of a submarine, wondering why we hadn’t detected it visually or on radar
as we laid the buoys.
“Maintaining RF contact, we gradually dropped down to low level, drew a blank on the
radar, and supplemented the field around buoy 14, shortly after which the AEO came on the
intercom reporting further buoys in contact and a classification of ‘Possub, Confidence Level
4’, and an identification of the suspected class of the Soviet hunter-killer submarine that we
were firmly in contact with, and which was tracking.....

There is a lot more to the book though, including 140 colour photos within the text:
CHAPTER 1 NIMROD FROM START TO FINISH
CHAPTER 2 HISTORY OF ANTI-SUBMARINE WARFARE
CHAPTER 3 NIMROD MR2
CHAPTER 4 NIMROD ANTI-SUBMARINE AND ANTI-SURFACE UNIT WARFARE
CHAPTER 5 NIMROD SEARCH AND RESCUE SORTIES
CHAPTER 6 LAND BATTLES AND SPECIAL SORTIES
CHAPTER 7 THE FALKLANDS CAMPAIGN
CHAPTER 8 NIMROD ACCIDENTS
CHAPTER 9 NIMROD AEW
CHAPTER 10 NIMROD MRA4
EPILOGUE
APPENDIX 1 A TYPICAL DAY IN THE LIFE OF A MR2 CREW
APPENDIX 2 GLOSSARY AND ACRONYMS
APPENDIX 3 NIMROD TIME LINES
APPENDIX 4 COMPARISON BETWEEN MRA4 AND MR2
APPENDIX 5 MOD DEFINED TASKS FOR THE NIMROD
INDEX

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

I look forward to reading about 'a typical day in the life of a MR2 crew'!

Duncs:ok:

[Dengue_Dude]

I look forward to reading about 'a typical day in the life of a MR2 crew'!


There'll obviously be a lot about eating in formation then . . .

Not commonly known, this was just to put the aircraft in trim. Pies on the flight deck give a nose-down trim which was good for SAR.

Simples ;)

[thunderbird7]

Don't forget the importance of a blunt dinghy knife to cut DCS and how many tea bags to put in the pot...:ok:

[Vim_Fuego]

Depenedent on pot size 5-7...And they should be left in so the later recipients recieved a barking strong brew...

[aw ditor]

On Shacks.' we used to sell the Teapot "ullage" to the local tannery.

[4mastacker]

Aw ditor,

I'm impressed, nay, totally and overwhelmingly in awe that not only could you sell nothing to someone else, but you actually persuaded a customer to part with money for nothing in return.

Perhaps a different 'ullage' to the one us stackers were used to. Ours was the empty headspace above the liquid in the fuel tanks - also used as a nickname for a certain OC POL at a large AT base in the early seventies. ;)

[Ray Dahvectac]

...the AEO came on the intercom reporting further buoys in contact and a classification of ‘Possub, Confidence Level 4’, and an identification of the suspected class of the Soviet hunter-killer submarine ...

Lead Wet's headset u/s was it? Or was this the same AEO who (admittedly a couple of years after 1980) used to spend much of his time while we were in contact leaning over the wet teams' shoulders and, using one of those extending pointer things, repeatedly point out various lines on the AQS901 CRT and ask what they were? A system he thought worked rather well until his pointer suddenly developed a 90 degree bend and would no longer retract and fit into the pen pocket on his flying suit. :E

[Biggus]

If it was 1980 vintage perhaps it was an MR1? When did it stop being called Jez?

From my first days on MR2s, mid 80s, it would have been:

'Tac Nav - Acoustics. Contact in Lofar (difar/Barra as required) 14 analysing!'

The subsequent classification would once again, as Ray has already stated, have been announced on intercom (hopefully the right one!) by acoustics - for which read the lead wet!








But the UK isn't in this game any more, so this conversation comes under the heading of nostalgia.... :{

[Wensleydale]

But the UK isn't in this game any more, so this conversation comes under the heading of nostalgia....


...or indeed, a sub-culture?

[rockiesqiud]

Lead Wet's headset u/s was it? Or was this the same AEO who (admittedly a couple of years after 1980) used to spend much of his time while we were in contact leaning over the wet teams' shoulders and, using one of those extending pointer things, repeatedly point out various lines on the AQS901 CRT and ask what they were? A system he thought worked rather well until his pointer suddenly developed a 90 degree bend and would no longer retract and fit into the pen pocket on his flying suit.

I always found the 11 point dividers handy for the AEO problem!!:E

[The Old Fat One]

You MR2 only boys need to get some in. In the MR1 the wetties did radio and there were only 3 dry and 3 wet. It was common place therefore for the AEO to stand watch on Sonics and Jez (note Biggus, the term acoustics came in with the MR2). Indeed many of the ex Shack dry men could hack it on sonics and vice versa the ex shack wet men could operate the ASV21D. The only places you did not often find the AEO were ESM, in the galley, or in ordnance. Which is why I decided to become one :E:E:E:E

Now if you want a funny MK1 AEO story, how about the very first nestor fit? A secure radio down the back in linescan, utterly and totally isolated from intercom. More than one AEO incurred the wrath of the GSU for spending the entire sortie off intercom monitoring the square root of **** all.

Not that anybody on the crew gave a toss.

[Biggus]

I, along with many other trades/individuals, used to take the mickey (hopefully in a light hearted way - it's called banter) out of the AEO on the Nimrod for many years. Then it finally dawned on me....



The AEO was getting paid the same amount as money as me for doing bug#er all, so who the mug...? Certainly not the AEO! :=

[Ray Dahvectac]

I always found the 11 point dividers handy for the AEO problem!!

Also handy (the dividers, not the AEO) in the old MR1 Sim for hanging off the metal part of the call light. Get it to arc in the correct way and it guaranteed the best part of an hour in the coffee bar while they re-tightened all the elastic bands in the computers that ran the thing.

Now if you want a funny MK1 AEO story, how about the very first nestor fit?

AEOs were ideal Nestor operators: the one person on the crew who would not be missed once the Tac Checks Outbound had been read. :)

As if to prove the point there was the AEO who changed the MAR tape mid sortie then proceeded to 'address' it on what he thought was Tac intercom but was in fact Box 2 set on ASWAC Primary: "This tape is classified SECRET. GIB Green 025, 15th May 1977, xxxSqn Crew x, Flt Lt xxxxxxxx, etc, etc".

When he finished there was a stunned silence, broken only by the voice of 'Roget Wait Y'all' on the JFK, to whom we were providing Direct Support at the time: "Gee Sir, was that all for me?" :ugh:

[Biggus]

I can see where this thread is heading...

[Yellow Sun]

There were two distinct types of AEO, good ones and I'd rather have the fuel.

YS:E

[Dengue_Dude]

There were two distinct types of AEO, good ones and I'd rather have the fuel.



Ian Parry used to say that on the AT fleet, but was talking about FEs . . . sorry about the thread drift.

[Spam_UK]

Stbd Beam,

Check your PMs

Thanks

[betty swallox]

Magic to see some good maritime banter coming back. I've kinda missed that since I stood with a tear in both eyes on Oct 19 in the breezy Kinloss hangar...
Keep it coming!!

[ShortFatOne]

I concur......

[Wensleydale]

I always found that AEOs were really balanced people...... they usually had a chip on both shoulders!

[Rallyepilot]

As a retyred AEO miself I hav two konkur with this statement. The onli reeson I got sellekted for a komisshon was cos I cood reed, rite and spel better than the average AEOp. :}

[aw ditor]

Rallyepilot

Was it you in the queue at Waitrose yesterday trying to remember your PIN number?

AD'

[Rallyepilot]

Yes, but it was my wife's pin number I was trying to remember. I never use my own cards in Waitrose if I can help it.

[The Old Fat One]

A tall, folically challenged dry man use to say...

AEOs are OK, but pound for pound I'd rather have another dairy cream sponge.

As for accidently transmitting "on air" rather than than the intercom (or vice versa)...everyone who was allowed an RSP probably did this at least once...and the resulting stories are plentiful and usually funny as ****.

It's all banter now. Another wise old AEO used to say...it will all be the same in a 100 years. And guess what...now it is all history, how right he was.

Well not quite...my pension is a sh1tload bigger because of the 14 weeks I spent conning the staff of IOT :E:E:E

[Rallyepilot]

The Old Fat One is spot on. It's all banter now.

As for the Nimrod, except for only two occasions, I always felt safe flying in it. One was when my P1 nearly flew us into rising ground when taking off in poor vis in Canada. Fortunately P2 saved the day when he grabbed the controls, hauled back on the yoke and we popped out the top of stratus in a near vertical climb (followed by a perfect wing-over and transition to level flight).The other, many years later, was during a landing at Gib when we crossed the Gib access road and passed the Lipton's Supermarket doing circa 100kts while the pilots were arguing about who was P1, who was P2 and who's job it was to apply the brakes. :eek:

No doubt, at some time in the future, the powers that be will buy into the P8 and the Kipper Fleet will rule the sky above the waves once more. I only wish I could have my life over again so that I could join them.

[Dimmer Switch]

The memory my be failing in almost every respect, but am I alone in being able vividly to remember almost every single stupid thing I uttered whilst either parked in Martel or behind acoustics ?!

At the risk of stirring Charlie Luncher into action, I remember when I said,"If we find a submarine today, I'll suck the 3rd Wet's ..... ". Well, I don't need to finish the story do I? We didn't find a submarine, but I was hoodwinked into thinking we had, and I'm just glad there were no cameras to record the subsequent scene in the tac area (at least I dont THINK there were, I couldn't see very well from where I was knelt !!!)

Happy Days ???? Or does it just leave a bad taste in the mouth :ok:

[Party Animal]

Another wise old AEO used to say...


TOFO - can't possibly be correct. You are implying that there was more than one wise AEO!!?

Classic TP (Failed as ATC officer because he couldn't deal with radars - so he became an AEO!) radio call to HMS Trafalgar:

Trafalgar: A6D this is Trafalgar - copied your last and that is us flushing till time 1100.

TP: Trafalgar this is A6D. Confirm you're fishing until 1100?

and while I'm on a roll....

Tac nav has the submarine 1 mile south of Difar 27 tracking 358 degrees at 6 knots. AEO?

pause while AEO does the usual maths in his head...

AEO concurs with your position - sub tracking 368 degrees at 7 knots!

Fun times.........

[Scuttled]

Fail to see your point Party Animal. The AEO's valuable input there was was spot on and the result of a comprehensive training package that consisted of adding a little bit or taking a little bit away from the previous assessment, regardless of outcome.

Many submarines probably successfully escaped on a course of 368 degrees due to your closed and unimaginative mind......... It's inflexible attitudes such as yours that lost the fleet.

Who was the chap who on completion of a sortie wanted the pilot to "do a quick 360 and get the heck back out of here"...? Similar point to the mind of a great AEO, surely a 360 is twice as good as a 180, whereas you navigators choose to just destroy the greatness of the aspiration with mere mathematical fact.

Shame on you and, by default, all navigators past and present. No exceptions. And with the time here at 63 minutes past 2500 o'clock, time for a glass of red.

[BSweeper]

Or the famous, "Its on your right at 10 O' Clock"

[Doptrack]

Quick scan through to see those I recognise

Who is going to do the first review?

[Army Mover]

My copy arrived in the post today - thanks Tony.

[SimWes]

Always enjoyed the times the crews never turned up for their Sim session and we techies had to keep the bin liner full of goodies in protective custody. Could never figure out what happened to them….:E

More often than not, the hot locks also turned up because no one cancelled them. Always made sure nothing was wasted…:O

As for the frozen doughnuts, 11 seconds in the microwave for best results

[Brakes to Park]

"Captain Radar right 1 degree"

"Radar Captain can't do that"

"Captain Radar Roger right 3 left left 2"

:D:D:D:D:D:D

[fergineer]

Was that really you wot said that BtP?

[The Old Fat One]

Was that really you wot said that BtP?


That was in a line book (prob 206) in Mark One days. One of the first things I ever read on a Sqn, so it pre dates '75.

I say prob 206, because, SF that I was, I used to read all the line books whenever visiting other Sqns.

And just to be the complete maritime nerd/geek, the correct call for minor adjustment on ASV was..."easy left left", or "easy right".

[fergineer]

pre dates BtP then..... but nice to see you on here again mate.

[Brakes to Park]

fergi likewise mate. I still remember Al Bone's car parked on your front lawn.

[Willy Miller]

An FO turned to me the other day after an arrival brief and said "I concur" I nearly pi$$ed myself laughing, I took the 10 mins taxi to apologise and explain. The thing is I left in '98, and it all seems like yesterday.

[Willy Miller]

and another thing.......


AEO (plugging into wrong box)

"Phhtttt, phhttttt - check, check I cant hear me, I can't hear me Phhhhtttttt."

NAV

" believe me , you're the luck one"

;)

[The Old Fat One]

And another thing...

"special sauce sandwich" for the obnoxious newbie co-pilot:E:E:E:E

[Charlie Luncher]

Dimmer Switch
As I remember it you had a big smile on your face:E
Being only a MR2 and MR2P young-un, skipper a little tense and not happy with the CRATT breakthrough firmly states "Radio paddle switch" Mr F in his best calming voice "go ahead paddle switch" still makes me larf!
The BSE time, not forgetting the boss coming in to the duty crew "gents one of our AEOs is missing and we have to get him back".
All the young-uns and some oldies who fell for HMS Unseen!
Happy days except for the slight period of Bundy/TFO/Terry Fwit.
Charlie sends

[esa-aardvark]

Just found the tankard given to my father when he
retired from Nimrod Cedit. He was on that from 1969-1975.
I don't quite know what Cedit did, but I remember him
talking about a lot of checking that deliverables were new,
and not old Comet spares. He is long dead, but anyone about
who could fill the details ?

[kiwibrit]

CEDIT - having to rake up memories long ago, but IIRC it stood for Command Engineering Development and Investigation Team. I think they developed possible modifications and servicing procedures for approval.

[Not Long Here]

CEDIT morphed into NAEDIT and I worked very closely with them. Marvellous and highly professional set of engineers who were instrumental in the success of many Nimrod Flight Trials.

Without NAEDIT support much of the capability development, particularly in the last 10 years of the MR2's life, would have been far more difficult to achieve.

[Nimman]

esa, if you send me a pm with your e-mail address I will send you a scanned article from an old copy of Air Clues about the Nimrod CEDIT.

[Pontius Navigator]

Or the famous, "Its on your right at 10 O' Clock"

The the call I remember by one John Maurice: "Port beam, snort right 3 o'clock."

"Port beam you mean left 9 o'clock."

"No I am looking out the starboard beam window."

Give the pilots their due, we were established in a right hand turn as this was sorted out.

[Distant Voice]

I note that in the book Tony Blackman states, with regards to the XV235 accident, that;

"Significantly there was fuel in the bomb bay which suggests that, as before, there had been a large blow-off of fuel from No.1 tank"

Of course that was not the case, as the crew had seen the fuel spraying from a AAR fuel line coupling within the bomb bay onto the Bomb Bay heating mixing chamber. Having said that, what happened to XV235 could have happened to XV230, as I understand that a fuel coupling was changed during the EQ servicing prior to the accident. This line of investigation, along with a couple of others mentioned in the book, was never explored. Interestingly enough, bomb bay heating was isolated immediately after the XV230 accident and never switched back on again.

DV

[AR1]

Look forward to the chapter where they fly round and round keeping a young man awake off nights.

[Shack37]

That was in a line book (prob 206) in Mark One days. One of the first things I ever read on a Sqn, so it pre dates '75.

I say prob 206, because, SF that I was, I used to read all the line books whenever visiting other Sqns.


Definitely pre '75 heard it in '62, definitely 206 (are we allowed to mention Shacks?)

[rafmpa]

Was passing Kinloss this afternoon and caught sight of the last of the mighty hunters XV244 being towed by an artic lorry tractor unit as no tugs left at Kinloss. Aircraft has been purchased and is being preserved at Kinloss. Took some great photos of her as she was in pristine condition and in glorious sunshine. What a sight being towed from the maintenance hangar to her new location on the camp nearly brought a tear to my eye. Have placed photos on flickr if anyone is interested.