CASA use Show Cause on own FOI

[Jurien]

CASA have issued a show cause notice to an FOI to show cause why he should not have all his multi endorsements removed after they had denied him any further regency training. What a way to treat employees.

[Frank Arouet]

This appears like the regulator can't regulate it's own employees.

I'll bet it goes deeper than it appears.

[gobbledock]

That is hilarious if it is true. Perhaps Clinton and flyingfiend could provide an update as to whether this is true that one of there mates has a been a naughty boy?
Has he been malfeasant perhaps? Simply incompetent? Upset one of the HR gimps and hurt some poor possums ego? Has his audit reports not contained enough bureaucratic lingo to give 'legal' a chubby? Perhaps the FOI has been trying to gain his endorsement since 1988, after all nothing is done quickly at Fort Fumble?
Or is this another example of the Regulator not being able to do anything correctly, including managing their own staff?

[Freewheel]

I call BS.

I've an open mind for most things, but the circumstances described seem to me like a setup - ie "Let's see how long this one appears on PPRUNE?"

[tail wheel]

New registration, first post........... :ugh:

[Lasiorhinus]

New registration from a familiar IP?

[aroa]

I know of a tarmac trio who have behaved in a serious criminal manner.
One bolts/is asked to leave/is let out the front door with all his entitlements, no doubt. And the very serious issues posed re this person never addressed by CASA.
:confused:
No " show cause" for these boys, ops normal, 2 still on the job, one displaying his ignorance on the job yet again...and in court recently in a similar case, false testimony and etc. :eek:

More millions for the taxpayer to cough up on their behalf at the end of the day.

Still, worth keeping on, even though very bad value for money for the taxpayer.
CASA likes to protect its own...:\
... well, some of them, be interesting to see how goes the FOI story

[jas24zzk]

well given an article I read once about a CAA 'operative' doing his flight review (YSCB IIRC) and reading this...i thought this might be appropriate (for want of somewhere more appropriate)...


http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s320x320/307030_176209079125405_154089308004049_408239_882796854_n.jp g

:E


edit: In no way am I trying to imply that the what the image is telling us is in either way responsible for either item mentioned. With all the personal 'posts' of late, just thought some joviality might relax a few.

gottaluvme

Jas

[flyingfiend]

Gobbledock,
Sorry mate, there is no way I could know anything about this.

When I saw me in bold font, I thought that you were about to comment on my post about Polar Aviation and Mr Butson being kicked into touch by the Federal Court.

Come on, you know you want to...

FF

[gobbledock]

Gobbledock,
Sorry mate, there is no way I could know anything about this. Now that is funny. Considering you dwell within the very bowels of Fort Fumble I find your denial somewhat insulting. Where is the trust, why lie ? I thought we were even going to become pals one day. I can never fully respect you if you lie.

When I saw me in bold font, I thought that you were about to comment on my post about Polar Aviation and Mr Butson being kicked into touch by the Federal Court. How could I possibly comment negatively? Obviously some robust justice within a fair and transparent legal system has yet again been metered out.
And again, you saw the bold print and 'assumed' I was going to make some sort of comment. Didn't all your internal CASA training teach you that one must not assume or rely on heresay but one must obtain evidence? And I know you had all that 'ass covering' training, c'mon you remember, such as when CASA teach you never to 'approve' anything, rather you must 'accept' something, that way you cannot be held responsible as you have not given 'approval'.
C'mon my flying/legal friend, you can play better than that.

Come on, you know you want to... Yes, there is something I want, it is only a simple request too. I want to know when the 22 year incompetent, tax payer funded, farcical regulatory reform process will be completed?
Can you help me with the answer old friend?

[jas24zzk]

I might not be able to give you the answer to your final Q gobbles, but I can offer some insight............ with a Q of my own.

How do you end a 22yo reform process in an industry with such a fast paced evolutionary process?

[T28D]

You end the 22 year old "reform" process by constructive dialog with the Industry and peer regulators world wide so that the process is harmonised with users and meets the safety needs of its clientele.

The very fact that 22 years have passed without a result is an indictment on the ability of successive Directors of the regulator.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

A:

You get 'with it' rather than being 'against it'.........

(Why is EVERYTHING a PENALTY and an offence.....**** man, I'm a crim.)

Co-operative, (Consultation style) vs Adversative style...)


Worked for me......:p:ok:

[tail wheel]

I want to know when the 22 year incompetent, tax payer funded, farcical regulatory reform process will be completed?

Correction: I think you will find it was the 23rd anniversary in September 2011?

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Crikey 'Tailee',

I didn't think it was quite 'that' long ago....
I do remember the 1st real changes in 'OPS' occurring 12/12/'91,
and the second 'cut' on 11/11/93....

But then...I'm gettin 'on'.....

Cheers :cool:

Edit: IS that when TAAAAAATS came in??

[Horatio Leafblower]

Wasn't 7/12/1991 the AMATS changes? :confused:

[Kharon]

If this is true, then it's probably a cynical CASA contribution to the mass BBQ of senior GA pilots.

There has been a raft of senior guys busted back to the ranks on very little 'hard' evidence, in the name of 'safety' over the last couple or three years.

If, there is a Senate enquiry into the behaviour of FOI' s, CASA will need to be able to say: "hey – we are even handed, look, we did one of our own". This is (or was) probably one of the few honest, hard working guys/gals remaining at the coal face.

Regulatory reform will help, but it is not the root cause of many of the present issues. Anyway, didn't team Illich/ McKenzie kill off the first lot of sensible reforms with some 200 odd pages of intellectual, totally useless argument in favour of a Gulag style system at the start ?. :ugh:

[tail wheel]

Re write of the CARs commenced in September 1988, a process I understand that took New Zealand and Canada approximately five years.

It was suggested some time ago on good authority that the cost of Regulatory reform has exceeded $150 million.

[Seabreeze]

Bruce Byron was told by his Minister to PYFO wrt legislation rewrite about 2005, but still couldn't get it done, neither it seems can JMc.

The problem is that the rewrite is too detailed and complex, so even when (if) the rewrite gets completed, it will be impossible to keep up to date with amendments. The only way to proceed is to KISS.

AA (Minister for so many things he can't keep up) can't even get around to responding to the Senate Report, so what hope.

Reminds me of dad's army (well meaning, but just not in the race)

SB

[gobbledock]

Correction: I think you will find it was the 23rd anniversary in September 2011? Oops, my mistake. My how time has flown!


Re write of the CARs commenced in September 1988, a process I understand that took New Zealand and Canada approximately five years.
It was suggested some time ago on good authority that the cost of Regulatory reform has exceeded $150 million. I am sure that flyingfiend and clinton would find this to be a fine example of 'worlds best practise' ?? I wonder if detailed and documented receipts have been kept for the past 23 years?
As a reminder of 'times gone by', here are some of historys defining moments from the year that was, 1988:

Margaret Thatcher becomes longest-serving British Prime Minister this century.
Movies - Disney releases the live-action feature film Good Morning, Vietnam. Also released was Rainman and Crocodile Dundee 2.
Music - George Michael, Guns n Roses and Chicago had hits.
Experimental airplane Voyager, piloted by Dick Rutan and Jeana. Yeager, completes first nonstop, round-the-world flight without refuelling.
George H.W. Bush Senior was still Vice President, Bob Hawke was Australian Prime Minister and Gorbachev was Russian Prime Minister.
United Airlines Boeing 747SP circles world in 36 hours 54 minutes 15 seconds.
The Democrat-controlled United States House of Representatives rejects President Ronald Reagan's request for $36.25 million to support the Nicaraguan Contras.
During a live TV broadcast, televangelist Jimmy Swaggart confesses to an unspecified sin, then announces he would be leaving his ministry for an unspecified length of time.
The British pound note ceases to be legal tender, replaced by one-pound coin.
NASA reports accelerated breakdown of ozone layer by chlorofluorocarbons.
Apple Computer files a copyright infringement suit against Microsoft, claiming copyright infringement by Windows 2.0 of graphical display technology used in the Macintosh.
The Mel Brooks classic ‘History Of The World’ was released.
Australia celebrated its bicentennial.
Hubble telescope is launched into space and the U.S shuttle program recommences after almost 3 years grounding after the Challenger accident.
The Soviet Red Army took a walloping and pulled out of Afghanistan
CASA commenced its historical, farcical and comical regs rewrite in 1988.

[Jabawocky]

Interesting the Hubble is expected to continue until 2014.

One point of difference it has already achieved what it set out to do :ooh:

[tail wheel]

I thought the then CASA Director summed up the regulatory review process exceedingly well in his following 2005 statements?

Proof Senate Hansard of the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee hearings of 14 Feb 05, pages 124/5:

Mr Byron—We do not have a firm completion date at this stage, but we should be able to generate that fairly soon. Mr Gemmell mentioned the refocus, I suppose, that I imposed on the organisation in late 2003-04 on getting the rules right and getting the quality. I found it necessary late last year to articulate in a bit more detail some guiding principles about how I wanted that done and who I wanted to be involved in the process.

I have issued some guiding principles on the formulation of new regulations and, if necessary, manuals of standards that accompany them. I have, I suppose, imposed on the system an additional layer of consultation, to assure me that the final draft rules that I send to the minister for consideration by the parliament are the right ones and that they address very carefully risks that are real and necessary issues that must be picked up by regulations. I felt it was necessary to do that to make sure that I have the right rules. I am not going to put my signature to anything that I do not think adequately addresses safety issues.

Senator MARK BISHOP—When do you think those regulations will go to the minister?

Mr Byron—I anticipate we would start sending some of them from about the middle of this year. I do not see this delaying the overall program excessively. We have an action item to develop a plan to forward to the minister about when we plan to have them to the minister, and I assume that plan would be done in the next couple of months. I would be hopeful that it would not be long after early 2006 that most of the draft rules are delivered to the minister.


:}

There is many more tax payer jobs to retirement still in this project!

The Neverending Story. Like Neighbours, only the principal characters change from time to time.

[gobbledock]

Interesting the Hubble is expected to continue until 2014.
That means the Hubble will come to a conclusion probably 10 or so years before the reg reform program will ?
Maybe the Hubble could be used to gauge how much money has been wasted on the prgram so far ? Maybe not, probably not powerful enough.

I would love to see Xenaphon ask for all costings, data, trip records for all the ollie jollies the upper echelon have taken to Canada and the USA, project details, people/resources and basically every minor detail involved in this program to be tabled, scrutinized and disected to ascertain exactly how much money Buffoon Central has wasted c/o the Aussie taxpayer. I think it would exceed the 150 million. Remember, all international trips undertaken by a CASA officer are business/first class, accomodation is up the top of the star rating scale and each person travelling overseas gets a handsome 'daily away allowance' commensurate with their level of pay. Not bad for an exec hey? Estimates are around $20k per person for a 10 day trip, sometimesw even more. Try calculating that and adding 23 years worth to the program total.

Maybe Xenaphon could call for a copy of every ministerial report or any project/progress report submitted to the Ministers office or the Senate since 1988 in relation to the reg reform program so he can again disect it and then get CASA to 'please explain' ?

Why won't the senate act immediately to halt business/first class travel internationally to save taxpayer funds? Maybe the Minister could set an example himself ? Why arent all public servants flying on the 'cheapest fare of the day' policy when they are required to travel instead of choosing their preferred carrier ?

What about clinton and flyingfiend, you boys working on the reg reform program ? Can you give an in-depth and accurate report on its progress ?
Or are you busy sipping coffee or red wine while on yet another ICAO jaunt ?

[Stink Finger]

The "Show Cause" notice has been used on FOI's before.

The one that springs to my mind is an FOI in FNQ was given a show cause by his TLFO at 4pm, the last day before the Christmas / New Year break ( by "given", I mean the notice was left on this FOI's desk, for all to see ).

This FOI was one of the nicest guys and most competent I've met. The TLFO, in my opinion was an oxygen thief.

[blackhand]

You end the 22 year old "reform" process by constructive dialog with the IndustryAnd that,Grasshopper, is the main problem.
It is almost an oxymoron, constructive and the aviation industry that is.
Casa is trying to please every one, from AMBRO, to AOPA and all the weird and wonderfull individuals in GA.
Just bring in the Regs and every one hardn the fcuk up and comply, or buy a fleet of trucks and try that industry for complexity.

@Gobbleaduck
Estimates are around $20k per person for a 10 day trip, sometimesw even more.
Is this estimate from a bonifide survey or just plucked from your nether regions
Cheers
BH

[Frank Arouet]

That's got to be close to the "post of the year".:suspect:

[Socket]

Gobbleduck:
Didn't all your internal CASA training teach you that one must not assume or rely on heresay but one must obtain evidence?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAAAAHAHHAHAHAHHHAAA, really gobble? Evidence? I wasn't aware that word was even in your vocabulary.:rolleyes:

[thorn bird]

Frank, mate, have to agree with you."CASA post of the year"

Black adder,sprocket, and Clint (No relation to eastwood)
I imagine you guys delude yourselves and actually believe that
CASA make regulations that are in the Interests of the Industry and the safety of the punter public.
Hate to tell you this but that is utter and complete Bu..sh..T!!!.
CASA make regulations to suit CASA nobody else, which is why they are so out of touch with the rest of the world.
Bureaucrats will never produce regulations that work..if they worked there would be no need to employ more bureaucrats to fix the problems of unworkable regulation. This reproductive imperative explains the thousands of pages of unintelligable rubbish inflicted on the industry and perhaps explains why more and more Government departments set up their own flight departments rather than contracting. They are the only ones who can afford to comply, at the expense of the taxpayer's bottomless pockets.
Black adder would have us all accept that the Government dosnt give a sh..t,
so just accept that, and go do something else, because we have, by regulation made it so expensive that nobody can afford your services.
Okay fine, I accept that, You win.... but what do you pricks do when there is no industry left to "regulate?"...Oh sorry forgot your Public servants!!

[601]

Co-operative, (Consultation style) vs Adversative style
CASA make regulations that are in the Interests of the Industry and the safety of the punter public

CASA try to make regulations that are in the Interests of the Industry and the safety of the punter public. However, once the Office of Legal Counsel and the Office of Legislative Drafting get into the act, all bets are off and you can forget any about Legalisation that will be "client" friendly.

[Stan van de Wiel]

CASA try to make regulations that are in the Interests of the Industry and the safety of the punter public. However, once the Office of Legal Counsel and the Office of Legislative Drafting get into the act, all bets are off and you can forget any about Legalisation that will be "client" friendly.

An earlier posting by a ex Public Servant claimed that the politicians and the G.G. make the regulations???? so why do CASA even attempt what to them appears impossible (23 years and nothing) I honestly believe the G.G. could come up with something workable.

CASA attempts refer to alligning with EASA and FAA for universal acceptance. Why not accept these as THE basis and adjust the language away from legalese, and at least add accountability for the CASA staff.

By general reference there appears one common thread - LAWYERS whether they be politicians, O.L.C and an ADVERSARIAL SYSTEM.

[gobbledock]

Where is Clinton and flyingfiend? Both gone deathly quiet? I am still waiting for them to answer the question on regulatory reform and when it is likely to be completed? Why no response? Has the Skull gagged you? You boys STILL overseas on an olly jolly somewhere? What about your FOI friend, are his wings still clipped?
Perhaps you boys are still mourning the loss of your HR exec, are you missing your pal? Busy picking through an operators manual looking for grammar mistakes and incorrect font style? Perhaps you are working on your own suite of manuals !!! Now that would be hilarious.

Or maybe you are busy preparing submissions for the next round of questioning by Xenaphon? I don't want to whisper this too loud but I think Nick might be on to you boys.
C'mon boys, where are you, using up all those QF frequent flyer points? Please respond, I am worried. Or are you working on yet another internal project, maybe planning to strategize how to finish the regs by 2050?