U-2 Question

[Jane-DoH]

Why did the U-2, which was based on the F-104's airframe use a J57 instead of a J79 (which the F-104 used)?

From what I understand, the J79 was lighter (useful for a plane meant to fly extremely high), it had a higher pressure ratio, it had a hotter, faster exhaust velocity (which is useful at high altitudes).

[GreenKnight121]

Comparing the two engines... J79 was never produced in a non-afterburning military version, and U-2 was not fitted with afterburner

The military J79 was never fitted in a non-supersonic aircraft (there were later civilian non-A/B versions in small executive jets).

J57 was produced in more than 9 military non-A/B versions (as well as at least 13 A/B versions), and fitted in several subsonic military jets (A-3 Skywarrior, B-57D Canberra, B-52 A-G models).


The J57 was also more powerful in the 1950s:
J79-3 (mid-1950s F-104) 9,600 lb. static thrust
J57-37 (U-2 1955 first flight) 10,500 lb.s.t.

By 1958 the J79 was still 500+ lb.s.t. below the J57 (the U-2 had been upgraded to the 11,200 lb.s.t. J57-31), meaning the J57 was the better choice for total thrust... and the U-2 was slow-accelerating, so it needed all the thrust it could get.


I don't see mention of water-injection for the U-2, but the B-52F in 1957 got an extra 2,550 pounds of take-off thrust using this technique (11,200 lb.s.t. dry, 13,750 lb.s.t. W/I)... and the J-79 was never fitted with this equipment.

[Jane-DoH]

GreenKnight121

Wait, I figured it out. The J79 wasn't even available until 1956, and the U-2 first flew in '55. I thought the F-104 for some reason was produced and flown first, then the U-2 was produced and flown.

The F-104 first flew in '54, though it didn't have a J79 in it until '56, and wasn't in service until 1958. When the U-2 was conceived, the F-104 prototype was being developed and flown. The J79 didn't even exist in the timetable the U-2 was to fly in!

[GreenKnight121]

In March 1951 Pratt & Whitney began flight tests of its new 10,000-pound thrust J57 jet engine.

On May 25, 1953, a J57-powered YF-100A exceeded Mach 1 on its maiden flight. The engine was produced from 1951 to 1965 with a total of 21,170 built.



The J79 was developed in the 1950s as an outgrowth of the General Electric J73 engine program, originally called J73-GE-X24A, intended for reliable Mach 2 performance.

The first flight of the engine was on 20 May 1955 where the engine was placed in the bomb bay of a J47-powered B-45C (48-009). The J79 was lowered from the bomb bay and the four J47s were shut down leaving the B-45 flying on the single J79.

The first flight after the 50-hr qualification test was on 8 December 1955, powering the second pre-production Douglas F4D Skyray, with the J79 in place of its original Westinghouse J40 engine as part of the General Electric development and qualification program. The YF-104 was the next airplane to fly with the J79 followed by a re-engined Grumman F11F Tiger in a Navy-sponsored program to gain experience with the engine before the first flight of the F4H (F-4).

The first flight of the YB-58 (55-0660) with 4 YJ79-GE-1 engines was made on 11 November 1956.

[Charlie Time]

ZZZZZzzzzzzzz

[BarbiesBoyfriend]

Jane

The first 104s (the two XF-104s) flew with J-65-B6 engines.

This was a license built copy of the British Armstrong Siddeley Sapphire made in the US by Buick.

They had 10,500lbs of whoosh.

[Dengue_Dude]

Interesting to all but Charlie Time . . .

You can get a redacted copy of the Blackbird -1 on the internet, but I've never seen one for the U2/TR1 manual.

Is there one out there, we saw the Tbird climbing through 70,000' with our James May journo on board, but there's still very little out there.

Or is there . . . ?

[VIProds]

DD, "The Inquisitive Angel" DVD by Don Dowie & Jim Jarboe. Recently declassified 16mm footage of the U-2, lots of Techie info on the cameras & Elint devices including original footage of the first U-2 arriving at Groom Lake/Area 51, from the Skunk Works.

Well worth watching "Creative Fission Productions".

[Dengue_Dude]

DD, "The Inquisitive Angel" DVD by Don Dowie & Jim Jarboe. Recently declassified 16mm footage of the U-2, lots of Techie info on the cameras & Elint devices including original footage of the first U-2 arriving at Groom Lake/Area 51, from the Skunk Works.

Well worth watching "Creative Fission Productions".

Thanks a bunch, I'll see if I can find it. When I was at Wyton with intersecting circuits with Alconbury, we saw lots of 'em. We even had the pilots over to 231 OCU for a meet and greet.

The aircraft's always fascinated me.

[ColinB]

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/books-and-monographs/the-cia-and-the-u-2-program-1954-1974/u2.pdf

[Dengue_Dude]

Thanks ColinB, got that.

Sadly I can't order The Inquisitive Angel, because they won't ship it to UK.

Is anyone aware of where it can be bought in UK? First time failure for Google, can't even get a bite over this side of pond.

[ColinB]

I believe you can order it from the USA but you will have to pay taxes.
price_info (http://www.uscoldwar.com/price_info.htm#As) of June, 2010, all volumes or any individual volume is also available for delivery by downloading from Box.net.
The Chuck Hansen site above gives some indications of this and it appears that downloads are not taxed.
Finally I did some years ago order show CDs from Amazon.com and paid the tax at the Post Office collection office.

[monkeymanagement]

I believe that if you keep a US order, delivered to UK, under $125 it's non taxable. (This works for individuals shipping to UK, not sure for businesses.)

[ColinB]

Understand it is a Region 1 DVD, we are Region 2 and it will not play unless you have a Region 1 player

[Wokkafans]

CB - not a problem :ok:

Let me google that for you (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=dvd+region+hack)

[ColinB]

Thanks very much, I didn't know that.
So the solution is to order it from the USA, there are other vendors besides Amazon.com and apply the software to your player.
I understand the different regions are to control the film rights in various regions of the world.

[Wokkafans]

CB, that's right. That said, I'd suggest it's best first to check that the hack codes for your particular DVD player are available before buying the disc. A Google search of the brand, model number and region code hack will usually suffice. It's then just a case of carefully entering the codes/play sequence on the remote as instructed.

Happy viewing,

WF

[Brian Abraham]

You can get a redacted copy of the Blackbird -1 on the internet, but I've never seen one for the U2/TR1 manual.

Anyone after a U-2C/F Flight Manual, there is a 1967 305 page copy available on CD. Forum policy prevents giving a link so PM if you want the link as to where to place an order. Hard copy also available from the Sth. American river. No TR-1 though, just C and F.

[SASless]

Utility Flight Hb 1 Mar 1959 (http://www.scribd.com/doc/119476487/Utility-Flight-Hb-1-Mar-1959)


For those who wanted to know about the U-2 early versions!

[Brian Abraham]

U2 Flight Manual just became available.

http://www.avweb.com/pdf/lockheedu2utilityflighhandbook1959.pdf

[Rosevidney1]

Here is a very early copy (1959) of the U-2 Dragon Lady. Having read it most carefully it is clear that a very special talent was needed to fly it. Later models were somewhat kinder to the airframe driver.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/119476487/...-Hb-1-Mar-1959 (http://www.scribd.com/doc/119476487/Utility-Flight-Hb-1-Mar-1959)