Lost Luggage

[Goombay]

A simple question which I hope can be answered here;

Is it really possible for a flight of a major UK airline to take off from a major UK airport with over 100 cases missing and the airline to then be able to claim they never knew anything was wrong?

[Capetonian]

Short answer : Yes.

If you had asked : Should it be possible, rather than is it possible, then the answer would be no.

There are many reasons why suitcases may be left behind, but for the airline to say they were unaware that anything was wrong is inexcusable.

[750XL]

Generally for most airlines, the loadsheet for the capt is produced based on the computerised system (unless of course you're doing a manual loadsheet). If there was lets say 300 bags checked in, the loadsheet would say 300. The dispatcher / load controller would have to tell the captain about these missing pieces of luggage as it'd require a new loadsheet.

[Goombay]

Surely with close on a third of the luggage missing the airline is duty bound to inform the passengers of the situation.

No one wants to go on holiday without their luggage.

[londoneasyjetboi]

And delay the flight?? And the return and possibly the one after... sometimes you have to upset the minority to ensure the majority are happy... plus in most cases the bags are with you in 24hrs anyway and there is this cool thing called travel insurance if there is something you desperately need in the bag.

[ZFT]

plus in most cases the bags are with you in 24hrs anyway and there is this cool thing called travel insurance if there is something you desperately need in the bag.

Tell me you wrote this is jest?

[surely not]

If it is deemed necessary to leave 100 bags behind it is possible that the reason was due to a weight restriction preventing them from being carried.
It is easier to reduce the weight by offloading bags than to try to offload fewer bags and their owners, with all the arguments that would follow and the costs of re-booking accommodation etc etc. Re booking passengers onto other flights can be very difficult especially if the following flights are fully booked, whereas getting 100 bags away within 24 hours is easier and cheaper.

However there should be no way that the pilot or airline rep is unaware of a reduced payload as the pilot will have had to have changes made to their loadsheet, and the ground agents loading staff sign a form stating the bags loaded and where they are loaded on the aircraft.

The down route station should be aware that passengers will be arriving without their bags, but depending on the flight time they might not have all the details of whose bags etc before the flight gets there.

[Diver_Dave]

and there is this cool thing called travel insurance if there is something you desperately need in the bag.

Tell me you wrote this in Jest...

With the posters name I'm not sure!

Nope, travel insurance is there to cover unforseen events, it's not
an insurance copanies job to pay for a carriers incompetence.

[Gibon2]

The down route station should be aware that passengers will be arriving without their bags, but depending on the flight time they might not have all the details of whose bags etc before the flight gets there.

Airlines of all stripes could save themselves a lot of trouble, and mollify a good proportion of their baggage-deprived customers, if they were more proactive in notifying passengers immediately on arrival (if not in flight) that their baggage is not on the plane. It is of course annoying to have your baggage fail to arrive, but it is much more annoying to endure the long, forlorn wait at the carousel, your spirits gradually sinking, until you eventually accept that your bag is not coming out. Then you have to stump off and find the appropriate handling agent's office, wait in line for several weeks, and then have the clerk press a couple of buttons and tell you cheerfully, "oh yes, your bags are still in Frankfurt".

Well, if the computer knew that all along, why didn't someone tell me earlier??? Why can't the handling agent intercept the baggage-less at the door of the aircraft, and hand them the paperwork already prepared, along with whatever vouchers or compensation might be applicable?

[Goombay]

Nope, travel insurance is there to cover unforseen events, it's not
an insurance copanies job to pay for a carriers incompetence.

I agree entirely although I don't think in my case the carrier was incompetent. The pilot must have been aware there were over 100 suitcases missing but the plane still took off for operational reasons, it was a deliberate decision.

The pilot just didn't want anything to make him miss his slot with all the knock on ramifications and expense to the airline that would cause.

For the airline to then turn around and say nothing to do with us, go claim off your travel insurance seems a very dodgy practice indeed.

[ExXB]

If your flight was an international flight, or any flight in the EU the provisions of the Montreal Convention 1999 (MC99) apply. While compensation, in the sense of automatic payment for your inconvenience, doesn't apply, the airline is liable for proven damages up to a fixed maximum.

I would send a claim setting out your losses and ask them to pay. There is no "extraordinary circumstances" defense under MC99. You may be asked for original receipts for your claims, and this would be reasonable for any expenses you incurred.

Good luck

[easyflyer83]

I'll probably get shot down in flames here but it's not a great idea to tell passengers if theres a lot of bags being left behind. The crew would get endless grief for however long the flight is when ultimately they're there for safety and wouldn't be able to do anything about it. There would always be someone ready to start a mutiny and go OTT which is not good in an aircraft scenario. It would also impede on service delivery......whether that be BOB or complimentary. Chances are most would travel without their luggage anyway so inform them on arrival.

Baggage shouldn't be left in an ideal world but there are obviously occasions where it is necassary. Earlier this Summer LGW had baggage belt issues and for my airline if they waited for the bags that were missing the schedule would have ben a right off. Despite all the understandable issues surrounding left bags, most pax would rather the schedule keep on track.

However, an airline should always know where large amounts of left bags are.

[Chidken Sangwich]

We left 840 bags in Rhodes one night :eek: DC8 freighter to the rescue the next day :ok:

[Goombay]

Chances are most would travel without their luggage anyway so inform them on arrival.

Er I don't think so, who wants to go on a two week Mediterranean holiday with the kids dressed for the Glasgow rain?

A carrier like Easyjet will not even compensate you a single penny in the first 24 hours for lost luggage. So if you want a dip in the hotel pool that'll be in your bra & knickers because Stelios won't be paying for a new cossie.

Let's not forget that because of security people have to put their medicines in the hold baggage. Two people on my flight had to scramble around to find replacements for vital medication.

It's not as if hold luggage is a perk any more, it's £30 a case!

[ExXB]

If you read squeezies "carrier regulations" you will see that it is "their policy" to cover costs of a maximum of £25 per day after the first 24 hours.

Of course this policy does not overrule MC99 which makes them liable for a maximum of SDR1123 per passenger regardless. (Note that squeezie's website still refers to SDR1000, which is almost two years out of date)

If you have suffered a loss due to lost or delayed luggage then they are liable under MC99, to the maximum amount stated above.

Proving a loss may be difficult but most courts would consider the circumstances. A cossie for eight Glasweigians would probably be considered reasonable, in the circumstances mentioned.

Also, medicines are exempt from the 100ml security rule. Any amount, within reason, can be taken on board in hand luggage. Never put medicines or valuables in hold luggage - ever!

[easyflyer83]

Er I don't think so, who wants to go on a two week Mediterranean holiday with the kids dressed for the Glasgow rain?

With a non-refundable hotel in Tenerife and just that week or two off that Summer? You bet your arse they're going come hell or high water.

[PAXboy]

Also, medicines are exempt from the 100ml security rule. With a copy of the prescription and all original packaging, if I recall correctly?!

[ExXB]

With a copy of the prescription and all original packaging, if I recall correctly?!

Bien sûr, mon ami. However in over 2m kms of travel over the last 30 years I have been challenged over my insulin only once. (At Geneva, of all places. The security guy took me, and it, to the gate where he presented it to the gate agent with a flourish, and then went back to the post. The gate agent rolled her eyes and handed it back to me! Another terrorist incident prevented!)

But I do travel with a copy of my prescription and the insulin is a self enclosed pen, properly labeled (in french) but not in the box it came in.

[Piltdown Man]

Is it really possible for a flight of a major UK airline to take off from a major UK airport with over 100 cases missing and the airline to then be able to claim they never knew anything was wrong?

Answering the question precisely, Yes. Because they planned (before the flight left) NOT to take the bags for whatever reason. It may well have been a last minute plan, but it was definitely, absolutely known before departure that passengers would be travelling without their bags. My own average guess for a passenger with bags is 92 kgs. So if I'm given 100 passengers but the loadsheet shows a traffic load of only 7,500 - 8,000 kgs I know there are bags missing. As to why the bags are 'missing', the list of reasons is endless. I'll give you some: lack of loading staff, equipment breakdown, broken holds, system faults, bags already loaded onto the wrong plane which has departed, not enough containers, broken aircraft doors, no inbound handling... and so on. But, does this excuse the airline? Should they have told you before departure? Should the flight have been delayed to allow those who no longer wished to fly to get off? What are the carrier's conditions of carriage? And what should have been done by the carrier as a result?

You can answer these questions probably better than I can.

PM

[radeng]

I remember a flight from Nice to Heathrow some years back: as we pushed back, we could see a load of our bags sitting there........Quite expensive for BA, delivering them all.

[YorkshireTyke]

I'll probably get shot down in flames here but it's not a great idea to tell passengers if theres a lot of bags being left behind. ................

Baggage shouldn't be left in an ideal world but there are obviously occasions where it is necassary.

Did it once, the alternative would have been to cancel the flight for flight time limitations. Long boring story, details unimportant now. Didn't give the pax. the option.

Once carried an orchestra, at departure time it proved impossible to load the 'arp in what was left of the hold, so a convenient freighter departing later that day was commissioned to take it. I suggested that as there was a large box clearly visible alongside the aircraft, marked 'arp, that someone at least throw a tarpaulin over it, had we pushed back and the 'arp being espied clearly being left behind, I guess we might have had a lot of aggro.

[RevMan2]

A real airline will probably do it like this:


Identify the passengers whose bags have been left behind.
Provide the destination passenger service people with this information and the contingency plan for reuniting pax and bags
Passenger service people at destination meet flight at carousel, page the passengers with missing bags, tell them what the contingency plan entails, answer questions.


That's what I've experienced from a couple of good legacy carriers, anyway

[PAXboy]

YorkshireTykeI guess we might have had a lot of aggro. Aggro? You'd have had a whole arpeggio up your exhaust manifold ... :eek:

[ex_matelot]

A real airline will probably do it like this:

Identify the passengers whose bags have been left behind.
Provide the destination passenger service people with this information and the contingency plan for reuniting pax and bags
Passenger service people at destination meet flight at carousel, page the passengers with missing bags, tell them what the contingency plan entails, answer questions.


That's what I've experienced from a couple of good legacy carriers, anyway

At MAN last Thursday at 4am about 60 of us passengers were treated to watching the carousel get emptier and emptier until it stopped. Then an announcement that if our bags were not there to contact the GBS desk. The poor guy on duty there was only able to tell us our bags had somehow not been loaded and to fill in the forms. Got mine 24hrs later delivered to the address I gave.
Don't envy his job.

[PAXboy]

RevMan2A real airline will probably do it like this:Indeed and with modern Information Technology - it's even less than a doddle.

My guess as to why it doesn't happen? The chain of command from first contact with potential customer - to them leaving the destination terminal a satisfied customer is broken into a thousand pieces. We have discussed this here many times.

The cost of stitching it back together again will NEVER be met. The cost of trying to stitch just a few links back together to achieve the above? Not much and yet the cost benefit to the carrier is almost beyond huge.

Imagine: "Well, carrier Blah did lose my bags - but I was met at the jetway by a person with my name on a board, who explained what had happened. They checked my next destination and gave me sheet of paper printed with all the information, a reference number and a free-phone to call if the bag did not arrive. They had even printed it in my own language."

"Bløødy Blah lost my bag but it was hours before I even found out that they'd lost it. I tell you - don't EVER use them."

Oh well, we can dream ... :zzz:

[Hipennine]

A contrasting BA experience:

OB NCL-LHR-NRT

On arrival at NRT, there's a personal note at the top of the jetway to contact BA in the baggage hall. Informed that some bags were not on the flight but would be on next day, and were forwarded to hotel in the mountains the following day. Each pax given a temp cash card valid for three months with £75 value on it to use as desired, plus note on Montreal etc.

IB NRT-LHR-NCL

Check -in at NRT - lots of special baggage, rush, etc stickers put on baggage because "it is going through London", knowing smiles, etc.

On arrival at NCL, hang around until carousel empties, then go to the rep, who clearly wants to go home. "where's the baggage says I"," no idea says she, here's your form". Arrived about 4 days later.