I could do with some advice re potential walt.

[tyne]

Hi guys,

I am a civvy so please forgive the intrusion on this forum.

I would like a bit of advice if possible.

As part of my work I am about to do business with a chap who is ex-forces. Seems straight up and there is a paper trail on line about his past.

However, we took an anonymous 'phone call about him from someone claiming he was a Walt. Could be malicious, but it has raised a question about his integrity. If it turns out he is a fraud it will reflect badly on our business.

On line, some of the dates of things he has done don't match. However, that could be down to bad journalism or genuine errors.

What do you as members of the mililtary suggest is the best course of action?.

I could approach him and tell him about the 'phone call. But that may upset him if he is straight or prompt him into more lies if he is not.

He could be straight and be so angry he leaves the project which would not be good.

Is there a way I can legally and quickly check that this guy is who he says he is. If I rang for example a unit he claims to have worked with, would they be able to answer my questions?

I really want to be discreet about this as it is quite a delicate situation.

Cheers

Tyne.

[Dengue_Dude]

His name isn't Wayne is it?

If it is, then PM me. If not I'll resume my head down position.

[parabellum]

Not easy. You could ask him to show you the evidence of his military service that should include some form of discharge book or certificate of service, soldiers used to get a discharge book, (an AB108), officers will have their copy of The Queen's Commission. Tell him it is company policy to fully check the military background of all applicants as some of your work is of a classified or sensitive nature and do you have his permission to check with his regiment/ship/ squadron etc? Could he supply you with two service references please?

If you already have any genuine ex service people on your staff it would only take them about two minutes in the bar to uncover him if he is a Walt.

[wokkamate]

Ok, If he is ex forces he would have received a 'reference' from his Boss as part of his dis-charge papers. Also, unless he is SF (and then you will face a brick wall of silence in response to any enquiries from his previous unit) you have every right to contact his last unit/Boss for a full reference. This should not 'piss him off' and you should inform him that you are doing this for completeness and not to check if he is a 'walt' or not.

The reality is that as an employer you should be aware of this - which leads me to question the authenticity of this post.......basics really.

[Pontius Navigator]

Tyne, you need to be able to gently probe from a position of knowledge. If you lack the knowledge then ppruners might be able to give you some pointers.

It would help therefore if you said which Service, I would guess RAF, how old he is, which would set the period, and any other pointers such as lines he may have shot.

[parabellum]

Also, unless he is SF


Even if he was SF his parent unit record office should still be able to provide authentication of service without getting into detail.

[airborne_artist]

There are plenty of Walts about, and sometimes it can be hard to out them, but at the same time it's possible that the anonymous call was malicious, so there's a fine line to be trodden.

Can you be more specific about his claimed background, and why you think some does not stack? What are the risks to your company if he is a walt? If they are large then it might be possible to tell him to his face, and insist that you have confirmation of his service record before you can proceed. A non-walt won't be offended, a true walt will scream and shout, or continue to try to BS you.

Bear in mind that the online trail could be entirely created by him - it's not hard. Small things like checking the name of the person who registered the domain name of a site that mentions him might be enough to uncover the fact that he's fabricated things.

Feel free to PM me. My old unit has lots of walt-trouble - this is perhaps the most famous: The Baron of Castleshort (http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/The_Baron_of_Castleshort) and there's a presenter of survival programmes with a silly first name who also walts a fair bit. I'd upset the owners of Pprune if I posted his waltisms ;)

[lj101]

Ask him what his service number is/was and google it with his surname.

Just tried it in the office and both officers and the ranks come up.

[tyne]

Thanks for the replies chaps.

The difficulty is that he is helping us free of charge. Its a charity project and he is doing this out of the goodnes of his heart.

We are not employing him as such.

Although a civvy, i have a lot of experience with the military and have worked a lot with the mainly the RN - and other navies. I could have a decent stab at spotting a Walt if he was ex-navy.

He's ex AAC. Recent Ex as in Telic

[airborne_artist]

Tyne - PM me if you like with his name etc. My neighbour three doors away is an ex AAC officer of that vintage, as is another acquaintance in the village.

[PPRuNe Pop]

If he is ex AAC ask him what regiment/s he served with and let us know. With gentle probing he will be all too happy to tell you - even if he not genuine. There are a few ex AAC and serving guys on here. Ask him what he did. Ask him the stations he served on. You will either frighten him or he will give you the answers that are simply checkable. We have the 'tools' if they will pardon the expression.

[Thud_and_Blunder]

lj101,

Interesting, 'cos I just did that (with both of my Service numbers) and got absolutely nothing.

Either I played the 'grey man' thing to perfection, or I've really been a Walt all these years and never told myself...

[Vim_Fuego]

Work of a paid or voluntary nature for most charities will require some sort of background check as you may be working with people of a vulnerable nature, peoples personal details on their finances and health, the charities funds or be in a position to at least see all of the above to some extent...

If his participation does not warrant such a check (CRB or similar) he is not to know so you could start the ball rolling with a few searching yet logical questions about service number, positions of responsibility held, previous addresses, regiments served on and the belter would be names of commanding officers that you could write to for character references...This would appear appropriate for a good guy and terrifying for all but the coolest of walts.

[ShyTorque]

Thud, I guess "old fogeys" like us are too old to fit in with the present system.

I received nothing like a reference from H.M. but I did get a nice handwritten letter from an airship thanking me for my "very valuable" 18 years service and wishing me luck in my future career.

Then they just took my car pass away and that was it. :hmm:

[xenolith]

Tyne, man the fu@k up, go to the bloke with your 'evidence' and tell him your concerns! His reaction will speak volumes.
As part of my work I am about to do business with a chap who is ex-forces. Seems straight up and there is a paper trail on line about his past.What more do you want?

However, we took an anonymous 'phone call about him from someone claiming he was a Walt.

Could be malicious
No sh!t Sherlock!:rolleyes:

but it has raised a question about his integrity
No it has not! ONUS PROBANDI
The only integrity question here is about you trying to sort the issue out on this forum. For goodness sake put your big boy pants on and talk to the bloke!:ugh:

[airborne_artist]

Ask him what his service number is/was and google it with his surname.

Just tried it in the office and both officers and the ranks come up.

Only if they get a mention in the London Gazette or similar. Neither of my service numbers come up with anything like my name close to them. RN officers' numbers are in the form A123456B, so are quite unusual.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Only if they get a mention in the London Gazette or similar. Neither of my service numbers come up with anything like my name close to them. RN officers' numbers are in the form A123456B, so are quite unusual.

Walt alert :eek:

[airborne_artist]

Walt alert http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gif

And better still I had an RN rupert's number first, and then an Army soldiers' number :\

[MG]

My search came up, including a Gazette entry from 1987; they got my initial wrong, I must be a Walt!!:)

[ShyTorque]

I just Googled my service number and it came up with a patent for a photocopier and the phone number in an advert for the best pizza in Italy! :cool:

I'm proud to put both on my CV... :E

[lj101]

Oh boo - soz for the duff advice

[charliegolf]

Shy:

"very valuable" 18 years service

I notice 'work' does not feature in the airship's testimonial. Helicopter man obviously!

CG

[Whenurhappy]

Just did the Goggle Thingy with name and Service Number (none of this JPA 'staff number' nonesense) and entries on the London Gazette appeared, as expected, and then reference to a website called the 'Webgeneration' containing an excel spreadsheet of the RAF List, as of Nov 10. It is not the complete RAF list; some of the tabs are clearly missing, along with my DSO, as was my MID as being one of the chaps on the Iranian Embassy balcony all those years ago (CCF SF Section).

[cornish-stormrider]

you wucking falts (spell it)

I found me - and I know I did work, my appraisal said so.
It said his standard of work is appaling, it is only matched by the quantity.
still proves I must have done something.

As to the walt hunt - our esteemed grunt colleagues run a webby siter called Arrse - appropriately. They specialise in outing walts. Talk to them.
Walt hunting is a sport, it is also an honour and a privelidge.

Remember a charity walt is worse than any other as it's all glory. Next week I have to interview an ex submariner - be easy to spot if this guy is a walt, all subbys smell and glow in the dark. they also recoil from daylight.

[Shack37]

Any way of finding out who the malicious caller is? If it's an ex wife or MiL you have your answer. Who would want to stop someone doing a charity freebie? Who knew he was possibly going to help your company?

[Shack37]

No it has not! ONUS PROBANDI
The only integrity question here is about you trying to sort the issue out on this forum. For goodness sake put your big boy pants on and talk to the bloke!:ugh:


Well said xenolith, spoken like a true roughy toughy ex-service non walt type........I think? or someone who's had a nerve touched....:=

[tyne]

Good advice - manning the **** up.

However, I have been asked to become involved by my boss. I am not connected with the project and don't know this guy.

My method would be to take him for a pint, pose as an anorak (Well I am to be honest.) and get him chatting about stuff.

Its isn't possible as I am not in the same office.

The person who took the call also has no involvement in the project and just flagged it up. I have spoken to them in detail, it seems like the person who called did have some sort of axe to grind.

I just don't want to cast a shadow over someone who may be a thoroughly decent, generous chap.

[xenolith]

Well said xenolith, spoken like a true roughy toughy ex-service non walt type........I think? or someone who's had a nerve touched....:=


:hmm:Nothing roughy toughy about it and no nerve touched I just hate injustice in all its forms; it's just good, up front, management. Get it out in the open, if he's a walt ditch him if he's not give him fair warning that someone's on his case. Honesty is always the best policy Shackers. Speaking of which, you were on Shacks and you are only 67?:E

tyne

Quite understand your position, please pass my sentiments to your boss (you might want to be a bit more diplomatic;))
All the best with your quest.

[charliegolf]

Speaking of which, you were on Shacks and you are only 67?

Nibble, nibble. I was in Lossie in '82, met up with an AAITC 'graduate' pal who was an eng on shacks. I'm 54.

CG

[tarantonight]

As someone above says, get some former Mil types to have a chat, be outed in no time if he is a Walt. Also, ARRSE, they love hunting them.

Failing all that, does he still live with his Mum?

TN.:D

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Googling my Service Number brings up...

...a lawn tractor dipstick.

This may explain a lot.




At least it's not something from the Ann Summers catalogue. I'm going to assume it refers to smoothness and a penchant for 'daisy cutting' low flying.:cool:

[Pontius Navigator]

Interesting. I entered my service number 1234567a and up came my second commission in the Gazette. No retirement so perhaps I should file for back pay.

I then tried 1234567 and got nothing and 1234567 Navigator P got nothing either. However when I googled 1234557 Chopped N up came his details. (I just happen to know his S/N as it was 10 less than mine :))

[Gnd]

There are some AAC pers that hate each other and activly go about 'dissing' someone who has pi**ed them off in the past, he may be as true as he seems, and for free, abuse it.:) If not, let me know who he is and I will say yes or no - if he is very old

[Tankertrashnav]

I tried the Google thing and got all my promotions (well, both of them) and my retirement. I note that on the same day Prince Charles went up to wing commander :*

Oh and I also got the telephone number of a plumber with the same name as me in Co Cavan, in Ireland, if anyone is looking for one!

[Legalapproach]

My service number throws up Zoro Tools - dry wall tools.

At least it doesn't just say Tool.

[dagenham]

Just a check

Does the guy have a tan, just back from abroad at short notice?

Did the caller have a foreign accent, possibly saudi?

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

Bloody Hell....just checked me. They must have been spying

All have small heads, tufted ears, and heavy bodies with long legs and short tails.

[barnstormer1968]

My service number says I was either:

A loan for a car
Or
A picture of a house.

As I have always been skint I must have been the house.:E If only the OP's man could be Jim Shortt as referred to by AA, that would make my day.

[The Helpful Stacker]

Searching Google for my service number bring up a photo of trees near Kyoto.

[Shack37]

xenolith


Speaking of which, you were on Shacks and you are only 67?http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif



Love it, made my day and I once knew a man who flew Sunderlands:ok:

[Arm out the window]

I got the Costa Rica Biodiversity Portal with pictures of insects and plants, and something about printers and a crimping tool...

nice to know my brilliant career is being properly remembered!

[ShyTorque]

I notice 'work' does not feature in the airship's testimonial. Helicopter man obviously!


CG, But "helicopter men" aren't required to be working class, after all, they are specially chosen to be leaders of working class men, sorry crewmen.... ;)

Me old Welsh mucker. P.S. How is it down the slate mine these days? :)

[parabellum]

My service number came up as an athiest icon or a reference number for a biking path!

[NutLoose]

My service number says I was either:

A loan for a car
Or
A picture of a house.


Searching Google for my service number bring up a photo of trees near Kyoto.


My service number throws up Zoro Tools - dry wall tools.


Googling my Service Number brings up...

...a lawn tractor dipstick.



As a proper professional ( Engineer) mine brings up a signed photo of an Astronaut........

It's sort of saying something there :ok:

[sisemen]

My service number threw up a "lonely heart" ad - for an American gay bloke!! Still, I suppose at my age beggars can't be chosers and he did look 'fit' :}

Service number + name brought up commissioning entry, promotion entry and PVR entry in the London Gazette. So duly saved and tucked away. Thanks for the steer :ok:

[ewe.lander]

Hells-bells, my service number directed me to the 'Mysore based Defence Food Research Laboratory' in India! That explains the Lyneham white boxes......:}

[The Old Fat One]

I got a crewneck sweater, a chinese site (in Chinese I think) and a weather report.

Always thought Google was useless.:E

[McGoonagall]

Apparently I am a pool table cover.

:(

[Wessex Boy]

I'm a Fender Amplifier - Rock on!

[St Johns Wort]

I'm a U.S. patent number, a super efficient gas generator. The word genius was mentioned:hmm:

[Exascot]

Tried my name and service number and also only found a promotion no retirement. Don't forget that they started to give officers a letter after their number donkey's years ago. I refused to use it but unless you put in Giggle can't find it in the LG.

Re. the Walt. We had one on the squadron. He was one of the first Beatles (or some other pop group) but left before they became famous and also played cricket for England. The really odd thing is after he was made redundant no one ever heard from him again. Just disappeared into thin air. Maybe this is your man.

[dallas]

I'm a catalogue item - a flower I think - on a Chinese website

[mini]

My service no comes up as a colour hex - olive drab would you believe...

Its either that or a six point deep impact socket...

A few pages on there are details of service, they got my middle initial wrong though.

[Whenurhappy]

Those still serving, or have left in about the last five years, will not find any current references to their service (promotion/retirement etc) in the Gazette. The RAF no longer submits the entries as a cost saving measure - similarly (as pointed out before) the RAF List is no longer published in hard copy - rather, just a nasty (and inaccurate) spreadsheet.

I am also the US Patent Number for an infusion catheter...ouch! Or a link to a video of Mongolian Throat Singers opposing Chinese hegemony.

[Tashengurt]

Tankertrashnav,
Oh and I also got the telephone number of a plumber with the same name as me in Co Cavan, in Ireland, if anyone is looking for one!
Weird name for a Plumber?

[OKOC]

Blimey--it's true when people called me a tool! Cos google reckons I am an "Augment for surgical instruments". Bugger, I've been in denial all these years.

[Tankertrashnav]

Weird name for a Plumber?


Actually he's an O'Tankertrashnav - but it's close ;)

[Not a Crew Chief]

As one of Trenchards' finest my service number begins with a letter, P, and so google throws up loads of links to photos on Fickr and similar.

However when I add my name I get a Googlewhack - ony one result - and it's a reference to a NASA publication about rotating stall in axial flow compressors. As I was a sooty for 27 years that was a bit weird.

[sisemen]

I had 4 service numbers during my 30 year career with the RAF.

4 ???

1234567 on joining as a Boy Entrant

B1234567 when they changed the system

1234567 on commissioning

1234567B once the commissioned side caught up with the airmen's system.

Could this be a record???? :}

[isaneng]

No, a record is a portable storage device for use on a gramophone....:}

Ok, sorry....

[foldingwings]

only found a promotion no retirement

As a genealogist, I had been tracking my Gazette entries throughout my career for the Family Record and future generations but had not seen my retirement some 18 months after I had left. I was informed by a mate at PMA that the RAF stopped registering retirements with the Gazette in order to save money. He pulled a few strings and mine appeared some 2 years after retirement!

Foldie:\

[Wirbelsturm]

No one Walts as being an 'ex-pinger' :(

My service number came up in a Fiat Uno parts catalogue. Sums it all up really!

Have fun with your 'Walt' hunt.

[Pontius Navigator]

I was informed by a mate at PMA that the RAF stopped registering retirements with the Gazette in order to save money.

So that is a habit that was stopped before it became a tradition.

An arcane pastime but browsing through old Air Force Lists and the newer Retired Lists ot see who was still around is now a pleasure denied.

I have on my bookshelf an annual RAF Sporting book bearing the names of all those who participated in the dozens of recognised sports. They also included the competition rules. One I liked was the 3-man Bren gun race. team of 3 would start at 500 yards. Fire, advance to 400 yards, swap gunners, fire, advance to 300 yards. Quite a drill. When did they stop producing that one?

What of AP3003 the History of the Royal Air Force? I bet that funding stream has dried up too.

[Wyler]

You can ask to see his service reports, he will probably have copies.

However, he is doing it for free so maybe you should just shut up and be grateful. Just a thought.

Not sure if i would give up one second of my free time for someone who trawls internet forums looking for dirt.

[Sven Sixtoo]

I remember doing something very similar in 1979 with a LMG. It stopped as a competitive event in the early '80s when the LMG (which had magazines interchangeable with the SLR) was retired in favour of the (belt-fed and much heavier) GPMG.

[hihover]

This has been one of the funniest reads I've had in a while.

A search of my old number says I'm a dumper truck. At my last aircrew medical the doctor said the same about my height to weight ratio.

Tyne

You cannot make discreet enquiries on the Military Aircrew forum on Pprune. If your man is straight-up, there is every chance he visits the forum too. I say stop fannying about and give us his name, we'll know who he is, or isn't.

Tam

[SOSL]

If you want to out a walt, or more likely just make yourself feel superior to him, the last place you should go to is PPruNe.

[jamesdevice]

I think the original poster stated somewhere that this request was in relation to work with a charity?
If so theres a good chance that the work may be with "vulnerable people", in which case there's both a legal responsibility to "duty of care" toward those people, and also a need for a CRB check. In other words, a dual legal requirement to thoroughly check his background.
Even if the work does not involve vulnerable people, then if he is going to be handling charitable (i.e. publicly raised) funds, then there is still a duty of care to ensure he's "fit and proper" (for want of a better term) to handle those funds. The charities commission should be able to offer guidance.
In either case you have the excuse you need to require from his a formal resume / history - and checkable references. Same as for any other job. The fact its a charitable position is irrelevant. If you DON'T check then YOU are failing in your responsibilities to the charity

[Art Field]

My old service number tuns out to be a patent for a rotary screwing device, I should be so lucky. Sadly no longer in use.

[Exascot]

Can someone explain to me what I am then:

'Chondrogenesis in periosteal explants. An organ culture model for in vitro study' :confused:

[NutLoose]

Sounds like a posh term for pond life ;)

[Exascot]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32684975/frog.gif

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

The study involves growing cartilage from bunny rabbit legs in petri dishes. This can then be used to fix the damaged cartilage in your knees. This could be sustained by sports injuries (younger ppruners) or damage due to old age. The model worked, with better results from smaller bits of bunny rabbit bone.

Chondro-genesis = growing of cartilage
peri-osteal = around the bone
explants = extracts (opposite of implants)
in vitro = in glass (as opposed to in vivo= in the living (organism))

Don't read the next bit if you're squeamish, or about to eat...

The explants were placed in a mixture containing fetal calf serum. This is extracted from the fetus in a pregnant cow just before it is slaughtered in an abbatoir. The serum is much more effective than the usual sugar gel.

p.s. Exascot -all medical terms are Greek; you could probably get anyone around in Greece to translate the next one.

[Pontius]

Google doesn't like me at all. Service number began with CO, as opposed to numbers, so think that might have something to do with it. As for the rest of the leaving 'stuff'; well, I NEVER received a commissioning scroll (and am yet to hear of anyone in the Senior Service who has......my Crab VRT one doesn't count ;)) and I don't have any letters of reference. My whole service career, it seems, was a figment of my imagination.....but the hair loss was real :*

[NutLoose]

but the hair loss was real http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/bah.gif

One has not lost it, One has simply grown up through it...... :ok:

I think if I was Exascot, I would prefer Pond Life than your description Fox3

:yuk:

[Exascot]

I am going to apply for my service number to be changed - will this affect my pension?

[spekesoftly]

will this affect my pension?

Only if my application for your old service number is successful.

[Pontius Navigator]

Nutloss, of course you are right. I thought is was down to gravity as there seems to remain plenty of growth lower down but your explanation fits the bill.

[Union Jack]

Service number began with CO, as opposed to numbers, so think that might have something to do with it. As for the rest of the leaving 'stuff'; well, I NEVER received a commissioning scroll (and am yet to hear of anyone in the Senior Service who has....

Pontius Non-Navigator - Continuing the extended thread drift, you have now heard that I certainly received one shortly after leaving BRNC!

Jack

PS I believe you will find that Your Service Number would almost certainly have started with "C", followed by six figures starting with "Zero", and ending in a random letter, eg C012345A

PPS What of AP3003 the History of the Royal Air Force? I bet that funding stream has dried up too.

Pontius Navigator - Surely money could be found for the funding of a book that thick!:ok:

[charliegolf]

I think the original poster stated somewhere that this request was in relation to work with a charity?
If so theres a good chance that the work may be with "vulnerable people", in which case there's both a legal responsibility to "duty of care" toward those people, and also a need for a CRB check. In other words, a dual legal requirement to thoroughly check his background.


JD,

In any context, a CRB only works:
a. If you are a crim, and more to the point.
b. If you are caught.

There is no 'background check'.

There is a fine line between bull****ting and defrauding/ gaining advantage etc.

Bull****ting will never appear on a CRB!

CG

[Alloa Akbar]

Tyne - Contact Maninblack on here.. he's yer fella for a bit of Walt outing.

Best Regards

AA
(Grill Tray.. Could be worse, at least I'm not a drip tray )

[tyne]

Hi, and thanks for your responses.

Wyler - at no time was trawling a forum looking for dirt. I was looking for advice on how to proceed in an appropriate manner.

I am pleased to say that I took some of the advice on here and that I am now satisfied the guy is who he says he is. Stuff checks out, people I have contacted have confirmed him as pukka, thoroughly decent chap which is what I always hoped all along.

As for the anon 'phone call - I can only put it down to there being some vicious buggers out there. He's obviously pissed someone off at some point.

Cheers again for your help.

PS.

I don't have a service number to Google, but my NI number comes up as a weather forecast.

[Union Jack]

I don't have a service number to Google, but my NI number comes up as a weather forecast.

Well, that shouldn't have come as a total surprise observing that your moniker is a weather forecast area!::rolleyes:

Jack

PS Glad that all's swell that ends swell:ok:

[tyne]

Yes I thought about registering as Dogger - but I might have attracted the wrong sort of attention.

[doubledolphins]

Mrs DD works for the RBL and, as you would expect, at this time of year she gets loads of help from Vets. Some of them may have embelished their sevice records, just a little bit. Most, of course, do not and have no need or desire to do so. All they are doing is raising money for the needy among us. They do not come into contact with the "vulnerable".
So, as they are doing no harm, but a load of good, nothing is done. Last year one chap did turn up with an increadable "Service History". The sort that, if it was, true, you would not want to tell too many people about. Furthermore a quick check of the Op Corporate Honours List (Falklands Campaign, for you, Tyne) showed that the first of his impressive collection of Decorations was false. As all in the office were suitably underwhelmed by him, he went away.

[Union Jack]

Yes I thought about registering as Dogger - but I might have attracted the wrong sort of attention

:D:D:D

What? Like a "German Bight" from "FitzRoy"?:eek:

Jack