Physics for ATPL ground school

[FattyBarr]

Hi,

Just going through some physics prior to starting ground school.

Can anyone advise presicley what is required?

I'm currently boring myself to death working potential energy, kinetic energy, blah blah blah energy equations and I'm not sure if I'm wasting my time. I.e if I will actually be required to solve these problems on the course.

Thanks to anyone who can give half decent advice.

Cheers

[A330ETOPS]

Waste of time in my opinion to be honest. I failed physics a level, and had no issues with the atpl theory.

Maybe go over some general mathematics, rearanging forumla etc. That pops up!

Good luck

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

The level of physics required at ATPL level, is no harder than GSCE standard. If you have basic understanding at that level you will have no problems with the ATPL syllabus.

I would not worry about it too much.

[mts1]

Hi, I need some help regarding crosswind problems, I hope someone can help me out since it is really bugging me...Lets see...I´ll set out an example and then the questions...

1. If there is a wind on runway 03 reported as 350/25, what is the crosswind component?... what I don't understand, is why in crosswind problems you are always given the runway number, why is that?, how is the runway number linked to the calculation you are asked??, and, what does 350/25 mean?

Thanks.

[madlandrover]

They're both pretty essential bits of information - I'm a little surprised your groundschool provider hasn't covered this, ideally while assessing your existing pre-groundschool knowledge?

The runway number gives you a reasonable indication of the runway heading - ie R03 will have a rough heading of 030, R27 will be about 270, etc. The wind is reported as 350/25: 350 is the direction it's coming from, 25 is the speed (in knots).

[mts1]

Thanks mate

[Capt Pit Bull]

It depends whether you just want to pass the exams or whether you want to understand aircraft and the systems within them.

If its the latter, then some Physics is handy. It's up to GCSE level, but not the entire syllabus by a long way.

A few bits of the A level syllabus are also handy if you want to understand the entirety of the ATPL syllabus but again by no means essential in this case a little rote learning is a practical alternative.

However the OP mentioned kinetic and potential energy.... well... that's about as core to flying aeroplanes as it's possible to get ;)

[mts1]

Hi, me again, I have been studying these problems, and I have come across another doubt. Now, according to the rule of sixths the relative wind angle goes from 10 to 90 (10, 20, 30, and so on...) but what happens if you get a relative wind angle such as 120????, or higher than 90. By what sine of wind angle are you supposed to multiply by?... Thanks

[Piltdown Man]

Physics is not required to fly an aeroplane. But you have to accept that you'll be operating a pretty technical bit of equipment in the physical world and having a physics background makes the whole thing more technically understandable. More useful in reality though, would be a course on 'how to make friends and influence people'. You can be taught the technical stuff from scratch, but very few people will tell you how to deal to deal with the people around you. A bit of instruction on how to write quickly in small boxes a read in dim light would be equally useful.

PM

[Da-20 monkey]

Hi,

I read your wind problem posts. Did you find solutions yet? I did my atpl theory a while ago. Happy to help but i dont't know how many people already replied to your post.

First of all, for European or American atpl, cpl, ppl exams you dont need to calculate wind problems with sin,tan or cos. youm are expected to use a mechanical flight computer like crp- 5. do you have one?

Lets say you have runway 36. and wind 045/20 magnetic. So, the heading of the runway is approx. 360 degrees (magnetic) and the wind is from 045 degrees with 20 knots. this will give the same crosswind component as a wind blowing from 135 degrees with 20 knots,the wind will still blow from 45 degrees to the side of your aircraft, reciprocal heading of runway 360 is 180, 180-135 is 45 degrees. So you use 45 degrees if you want to calculate it. You will see it if you draw the situation with arrows.

There are thumb rules to get crosswind and tail/ nosewind angles for practical flying, but they are not accurate enough to use on exams. Again for the exams you need a crp-5 computer.

regards,

[Mr Optimistic]

mts1, is that to calculate the crosswind component ?

sin(90+x)=sin90cosx + cos90sinx. Sin90=1, cos90=0 so sin(120)=sin(90+30)=cos30

But if it was for cross wind, easier to draw a triangle and remember that the component of a vector x degrees off the axis in question is cosx times the vector.

[Da-20 monkey]

Physics topics really required for the atpl theory are:

1. density, pressure and temperature of the atmosphere. Understanding of this is vital for many subjects. P/ rho = R* T

2. bernoulli principle: dynamic and static pressure. Important for understanding topics in principles of flight like lift, high speed flight, carburetor icing, some meteo details. Related to this: how pressure and temperature of moving air changes.

3. Electricity is also covered in atpl ground school: you may pass the final exams without much electro knowledge but flight schools often give intermediate tests on this subject with open questions: basic things to know are: Resistance, Current and Voltage in a DC circuit, electric power,radio propagation (wavelength= speed of light/ frequency) Some idea how a radio works, what doppler effect is and what a capacitor is is also nice to know.

4. related to 1., some idea about adiabatics and stability: water condensation, evaporation, what relative humidity is. Compression of air gives heating, Expansion gives cooling.

5. Mathematics: basic sin, cos and tan, pytagoras, root and square, simple formula rearrangements.

6. Some idea how a piston engine works.

7. basic mass& balance; Arm= Moment/ Mass, Specific Gravity of a liquid.

Don' t start learning about differentials, integrals, matrices and radioactive decay, you dont need those. It's not really a rocket science crash course ;)

[mts1]

To: Da-20 monkey / Mr Optimistic: thanks for replies, they've helped. I'm going to focus on this issue more before I post any more questions. See if I can figure it out myself.

[The African Dude]

120 degrees off the nose perhaps, but it could also be coming from behind.
Think in terms of the crosswind i.e. the wind across. It could be coming from slightly in front of you. Or slightly behind you. But the wind across the aircraft is 60 degrees off.

[mts1]

Jet A leaves airport at 4 p.m traveling due east at 550 MPH. Jet B leaves the same airport at 4 p.m traveling due south at 480 MPH. How far apart are the jets at 7 p.m?

Now, I would resolve this problema the following way: Let the distances traveled by the jets be the two legs of a right triangle. Use d=rt to determine the distance traveled by each jet in the three hours that they flew. The eastbound jet traveled 550X3==1650 miles, and the southbound jet traveled 480X3=1440 miles. Using Pythagorean teorema, 1650^2+1440^2=c^2, where c is the distance between the two jets. Simplifying, you get that 2,722,500+2,073,600=c^2. Taking the Square root of each side and considering only the positive root, you get that c=2190. The two jets are 2190 miles apart after three hours.


Now, where do I have my issue??, since I am going to be asked to resolve problems by estimation and hence the time in which I am supposed to resolve in is very limited, I am expected to do such problema mentally. So, would anywone know how this problem is resolved through and estimate and mental way???. The results don't have to be very exact, a rough estimate is enough.

And yet, what happens if in the problem, I have to resolve by estimation a quadratic ecuation??, that must be a bitch. Anybody have an idea?. I really need to know. I'm not asking for sake.

Thanks I would rally appreciate the help!

[Da-20 monkey]

You will also have to use an electronic calculator on the exams..:rolleyes:

They will either give you a calculator on the exams or you bring your own, a regular one with sin, cos, tan and sqrt.

Actually, many problems can be solved both with a crp-5 or by electronic calculator.

Calculating mach number for example, or converting volume to weight with s.g.
Best is to learn to solve these problems both by calculating and with the CRP-5, then see which method is the best/ quikest.

Wind problems and converting IAS to EAS or TAS can only be solved with a crp-5.

[Mr Optimistic]

mts1, looking at that question I think they are looking for proficiency in vector addition/relative velocity calcs. Get the same answer but what if the bearings had been 12.5 degrees apart rather than the handy 90 ?

[mts1]

Thanks to all who replied to my posts. I'm on my way to figuring the stuff out, at last.