Training at Liverpool

[b2vulcan]

I am considering starting PPL training at EGGP and would welcome any thoughts on the various flying schools based there.

[igarratt]

I have worked with all the schools at Liverpool and they all have their plus and minus points, you won't do too bad with any of them, you will get different opinions on here from personal experience, mostly people post when they have had an issue. watch out for the glowing feedback as likely to be one for the schools owners / workers in disguise lol
You will get a really good feel by just popping down unannounced and see who takes the most care of you and takes the most time to talk and help you, look at the planes, training material, student facilities etc

It's very competitive right now and money is tight so make sure you get a good deal.

oh and it's so worth it when you do your first solo :ok:

[Mictheslik]

I'm training with LFS and really enjoying it. Friendly atmosphere and great instructors. I also get the impression the fleet is well looked after, with all of the aircraft being hangared overnight.

Had a friend do an instructors rating at Ravenair and he was very complementary about his particular instructor.

Only experience of Merseyflight is that they nicked some of my photos for their website, so not a big fan :P

Heard good things about Lomac aviators but no personal experience.

EGGP is a nice place to learn, but not the cheapest. Landing fees are quite high and you often have to hold for IFR traffic (had one 50 minute lesson in which we only did 2 circuits!)

.mic

[sammypilot]

I have flown out of Liverpool for nearly 25 years and at some time or other have used all the flight schools. Currently I would recommend Lomac Aviators. The owners have been around aviation for many years and this is their first venture into training. The aircraft are well maintained and the instructors are good. More importantly for flight training schools, the two owners are well placed financially so you will not find the school suddenly closing down.

[trex600]

Liverpool Flying School are very good, They helped my with the ground school exam's on a 1to 1 basis too 'Phil Ryan'. Like with every school i would advise asking for the 1 instructor all the way through your training instead of whoever is working on that day
T6

[southport]

I can only vouch for Ravenair as i done my PPL there. All the instructors were great. I also stayed mostly with the one instructor. That way they know what you need more help with on the start of each lesson so you don't have to have different instructors each lesson finding out your weekneses are on your £££'s.
On airfields, I have also trained at Blackpool which is great but i consider Liverpool the better of the two as it is a lot busier, so in my opinion better to train in that environment as it is a great confidence booster for when you go further afield. You may well have to throw in a few orbits for the big jets but it's all great confidence building.

[Cumulogranite]

as always there are pluses and minuses!! I trained upto my first solo at EGGP before moving elsewhere for a number of different reasons.

On the plus side there is nothing like mixing it with the big boys from day one, this will make your flying more acurate and your RT very professional. I dont have much experience of the schools there anymore, but the guys that own LOMAC are very very good. They were members of the school I learnt with and taught me a lot just by chatting to them in the club room or offering me a back seat ride now and again, they are a very enthusiastic pair with a wealth of experience in general aviation and it is worth talking to them (No I dont work for them, just have huge respect for them!!)

As always there are down sides, chief amongst them is the fact that this is a busy commercial field. Whilst you get good experience mixing it with the IFR traffic, this can also hinder you. Never think that a one hour lesson will be exactly that, holding over the south bank of the Mersey was a common activity when I was there. Circuits are worse, the most I ever managed was 4 in a one hour lesson, compared with 6 or 7 when I moved to a field in the open FIR. That is if you can get a circuit detail in the first place. You may find yourself having to transit somewhere else first, thus either reducing your circuit detail or adding to your hours, be prepared for it.

Post qualification Liverpool is a good field to operate from, with Sleap and Caernarfon being within easy reach and the knowledge at the back of your mind that it has top class emergency facilities if it all goes wrong !!

As for option it depends where you live, there are schools at Hawarden, Tatenhill, Sleap, it is your money make sure you are happy before spending any of it. Go along and have a trial lesson at 2 or 3 of them and see what you think.

Above all, enjoy it, and welcome to the world of general aviation!!!

[Sir George Cayley]

I always mention Barton :rolleyes: It has, like anywhere, pros and cons. For me the ease of circuit work and the slightly ramshackle appearance suited my slightly ramshackle appearance.

I'm sure it's better these days despite losing Ravenair (who would be my LJLA choice) especially looking at the old clubhouse's swanky makeover.

And from Stockport cheaper on fuel to travel there too.

Lastly, I have to speak up against the notion that one instructor makes you a better pilot. It makes you a clone of that person. I had five instructors and I took the best bits from each, and spotted the dodgy bits when shown differently by one of their colleagues. Keeping with one instructor you like and get along with might be nice but won't broaden your experience.

SGC

[b2vulcan]

Many thanks for your thoughts and experiences guys.

SGC
I did consider Barton but felt learning at somewhere with a large and hard runway would be better, at least initially, as well as gaining experience with 'the big boys' :)

I am starting out with Lomac and see how things go.

[Cusco]

Do your best to get the same instructor throughout your training:

The continuity avoids the 'three steps forward one step back' effect as each new instructor tries to catch up with what you've done already with previous instructors.


It will save you money in the long run..

(At the same time, however, don't be afraid to change instructors if you don't hit it off with one)

Good luck and enjoy your training: it's a very rewarding time, not always plain sailing but the end result is well worth the effort.

Cusco

[Pull what]

The best place to learn to fly is a quiet airfield away from commercial traffic for the same reason you would not start learning to drive car in a busy city centre. Take my advice, based on being CFI in two schools with some of the busiest commercial traffic in the UK, if you feel that gaining a PPL is just the start of really learning to fly. There is plenty of time post PPL to learn to fly into busy airfields.

Oh and good luck and enjoy your training-some good advice above about picking a school

[Roff]

I think each person is different, Personally i found mixing it up amongst the IFR traffic was a bonus!
In respect of RT this will be better you and make the smaller airfield's a doddle.
It would be advised to get some circuits in from a smaller airfield also to practice O/H join's the different RT and landing on a small RW.

Horses for courses :)

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I agree with Sir George (but then I'm Barton trained as well). In my book, short grass runways and an uncontrolled environment trump 'big airport' facilities every time for ab initio training. You want to do another circuit 'cause you ot your instructor think it's a good idea? Just do it! At Scouseport it will be traffic dependant.

When I learned I visited EGCC and EGGP as well as other conrolled fields such as Blackpool. That kept the RT professional. Bur remember that you are learning to fly and the radio is NOT a primary fight control. These days I fly from EGGP and enjoy the professionalism of the RT as I go in and out. But that's the icing on the cake.

First - learn to fly! Barton will make you a better stick & rudder pilot with its short runways and self-reliance on positioning. Do the 'big airport' stuff later.

[southport]

I found that when on circuit’s at Liverpool the instructors at Ravenair would ask ATC beforehand the likelihood of IFR traffic & if any others students / schools are booked into the circuit. ATC would not let too many enter the circuit & none at all if they were to have a busy period with IFR traffic. So if busy we would just tumble over to Hawarden, within 10mins away & do them there, nice long tarmac runway & an odd hold for the guppy. At the same time you get some good practice on RT & exiting / re-entering the zone. So no time wasted in my opinion, whoever you chose to learn with i think you will find Liverpool is a great airport, I absolutely loved training there.

[Bethere]

I can also give a thumbs up to Ravenair at liverpool.

The big problem from small fields like Barton is RT skills.

Ask a controller from Manchester ATC what they think :oh:

[magpienja]

Bethere....is that the controllers or other pilots at Barton that you comment on.

Nick.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Either way he's wrong.

[Bethere]

Tiro PPL's & GA pilots

Maybe the old MAN Int/ Baton rivalry is creeping though :oh:

In the good old days when Ravenair was based at Ringway , Its was not uncommon for the ATC guys to pop over & chat about the "issues" traffic out of Barton caused .

[Cumulogranite]

Good to see you have gone with Jimmy and Paul. Rod is an excellent instructor with the worlds supply of GA experience and has a lot of knowledge to pass on. Like tohers have said though, through the learning process of 45 hours try a couple of different instructors, get a different view

[Bethere]

Just from personal exp over the years...

PPL's / GA flyers tend to have more developed sense RT / traffic situational awareness when they've come from a busier traffic environment.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

No. For ab initio that's not important. It only takes 40 hours to get the PPL ; after that, learn the 'big airport' skills. Of course, if you spend your whole life in the backwaters then rock up to Manchester or Liverpool you will be out of your depth. But during my ab initio at Barton I made sure Man LPL and BPL were regularly visited. I loved the RT and procedures as well as learning to fly!

My first ever aviation qualification was my RT licence! Before I even went solo (at 10 hours - try doing that at Big Airport).

Learning at Barton and being ace at RT and big airport proceedures are not in any way mutually exclusive. But you can add a lot of time to your basic training and miss out on some well developed stick and rudder skills if you do your ab intio at a Big Airport.

[Bethere]

Sounds like you had Peter as your Instructor. :)

Not quiet sure I agree when you say "For ab initio that's not important"
Situational awareness development is just as important as stick & rudder when nurturing core skills.

The old barton/ringway riverly will always be underlining :)

Barton did the better bacon sandwiches though ;)

Cheers

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Peter?

My instructors back then included the wonderful Charlie Rollo (flew Wildebeasts in the Sudan the '30s) and the amazing Tom Dougdale (WW2 and V Bomber pilot). As well as many other talented aviators. You can't find that today! So much experience and talent, not like the airline wannabes with a handful of hours you might get today.

But, even today, there's Martin Rushbroke at Barton. No wannabe he. A true master of the air!

Situational Awareness? - re-read my post. ;)

[Bethere]

You were in good company then ... Please excuse the Mr Bradbury ref ;)

I did enjoy my aero's in the chippy back in the day. Then chatting in the tower with Grant.

[ashdaman]

I have been completing my PPL for the past 6 months at Merseyflight and they are great. I work full time and they are always willing to arrange my lessons to suit me, after work and at weekends. Darren and Josh are willing to bend over backward for you which is great when you love flying as much as i do..My mate has now joined me over at merseyflight from Ravenair as he said they were disorganised....
Merseyflight have a selection of aircraft not just the tomahawks like LFS and Ravenair..I would definitely recommend them to other people wanting to do their PPL.

[benppl]

Second the above.

I fly with josh. Never had any issues with him. Guys a ledge tbh.

Lomac have some sweet planes though.

[ashdaman]

Granted Lomac do have some nice planes on the apron.. Darren is my instructor at Merseyflight he is very patient, flown with Josh a few times too he is also a pleasure to fly with!!:)

[JessA2]

Darren and Josh are willing to bend over backward for you which is great when you love flying as much as i do..

yep, flew with Darren a few times and was very reassured being with him, learnt a lot.


My mate has now joined me over at merseyflight from Ravenair as he said they were disorganised....

I went in the opposite direction over to Ravenair, is nice to actually get pre and post briefs and training handouts something that never happened at merseyflight, not been disorganised so far but I guess time will tell.:rolleyes:

Main reason for swapping was partly on recommendation from past student that passed in min hours but mostly on cost difference, I was paying £135 an hour at mersey flight vs now I'm only paying £96 at Ravenair, on a 10 hr block that was near £400 a go and thus £1755 over priced on my whole PPL.

I also found out that landing fees at Liverpool are only £15.40 vs the £20 merseyflight told me and charged, so all in all with the other free thing like membership I was going to be paying £2000 more with Merseyflight. :eek:

Having different type of aircraft is def a good thing, I asked about the cessna at merseyflight but I was told I should just stick with the PA38, did have to swap around a bit as they often broke down, multiple things not working etc. While there are more important things than ravenairs nice clean and new painted aircraft what is good is I've not had one PA38 so far with anything not in perfect working order at Ravenair.:ok:

The place next door was helpfull and as welcoming as mf but nearly just as expensive.

Jess :)))

[ashdaman]

I have never had any problems with any of the aircraft at Merseyflight and they have never broke down on me. And certanaily no engine failures after take-off...:hmm:

I definalty don't pay a £20 landing fee either. They are the only flying school that fly out of hours at Liverpool. We often have Kilo to ourselves after 5 pm. Just because an aircraft is all shiny, does'nt mean its working underneath the metal.

[gg190]

nice clean and new painted aircraft what is good is I've not had one PA38 so far with anything not in perfect working order at Ravenair.

You sure your flying with Ravenair? I've flown about half their PA-38 fleet (when they've been doing time on the rock) and nearly every one has always had something u/s on it.

I'm not doing Ravenair down, the aircraft are perfectly suitable for what they get used for, but saying 'perfect working order' is a bit much.

[Ringway Flyer]

I learnt at MAN with MSF (now defunct) some 15 years ago, and we did circuits at either LPL, Sleap or Ha'penny Green, so gaining experience of both types of environment. I would think that anyone operating from LPL would go elsewhere for 'circuits & bumps' if it was busy.

However you learn, do enjoy it, and good luck!

RF:ok:

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

"I would think that anyone operating from LPL would go elsewhere for 'circuits & bumps' if it was busy"

Indeed, but that adds a lot to the costs, not forgetting the frequent 'holds at the hold' and 'holds at the VRPs' going out from and back into Big Airport.

Somewhere like Barton, you taxy out and you fly which, for ab initio is just what you want. later, you can go into MAN or LPL once you can fly, to polish those RT skills.

Do I detect that some ab intios on here just want to play at being airline pilots while they learn the basics of stick & rudder? fair enough, but that comes at a cost!

You have to decide if you want to pay it. ;)

[Stevo1565]

I looked at every flight school in Liverpool and can say that merseyflight is by far the best school. Darren and all the staff there bend over backwards for there students flying after hours and helping them any way they can.

I've completed about 10 hours flying with Darren never had any issues with the planes in fact they are some of the best i have flown. Having done some flying abroad with nice shiney planes i can tell you that its not how it looks is how it flys.

In my opinion if you want to enjoy flying with good instructors then Merseyflight is the place to go

[piper999]

I wrote quite a detailed account of my quest to find a flying school at Liverpool Airport but for some reason it isn't showing.

Anyway, I chose Lomac Aviators, mainly because they're flying instructors aren't commercial wannabe's who are just doing the job to build up their hours. Their full time flying instructor, Neil, does the job because he loves it - it's nice to have someone willing to pass their enthusiasm for flying onto their students.

They were also the most welcoming and don't mind me hanging around the flying school once my lessons are over, or indeed just popping in for a visit even when I'm not due to have a lesson - it's amazing just how much free knowledge you can pick up chatting with other pilots over a coffee - talking of which, the refreshments are free, I've heard you have to pay for it at some of the other schools.

The owners, Jimmy and Paul have been in aviation for years and apart from having a wealth of knowledge on the subject, have a sense of humour that cannot be beaten.

Landing fees were also a consideration and these were cheaper at Lomac than the other flying schools at Liverpool. Training for the PPL costs us mere mortals enough without having to pay over-inflated landing fees.

I'm happy with my choice, Lomac is No.1 for me!

[JessA2]

I wrote quite a detailed account of my quest to find a flying school at Liverpool Airport but for some reason it isn't showing.

probably coz if it looks like this post then it just looks like fake users ID's posting over the top advertising without any criticism, constructive advice or real content other than to benefit said organisation. :rolleyes:

Ditto for you other post with same biased content on a thread thats 3 years old hmm :=

oh and I assume you personally have checked the background of all the other instructors at lpl to confirm that they are all wana be 747 drivers :ugh:

[sammypilot]

Piper999 is in fact stating the truth in so far as Lomac is concerned. Neil is that rarity, a dedicated flight instructor who has no ambitions to fly the big stuff. (I was fortunate enough to have a similar individual when I learnt to fly and they give you 100%.) Neil is supported another instructor recently retired from airline flying and by Jimmy and Paul, the owners, who make sure that their members always get the best..

[b2vulcan]

Just caught back up with this thread.

I have today done exercise 10 at Lomac Aviators and am more than satisifed with my time with them.
It is reassuring to see at least two posters praising Neil as instructor, he is my instructor and I am very happy with his method and personality.

Being retired I can take my lessons whenever I want and I have found Lomac and Neil to be most accommodating about when to reschedule a lesson if the weather is bad.
Today was the only time we have had a delay coming back into the zone and that delay was because of all the GA aircraft up in this great flying weather. The only other delays have been a couple of minutes at the hold waiting for landing commercials.
I must say as a totally 'newbie', there is something 'cool' about being cleared to land while an Easyjet or Ryanair waits at the hold for you ;)

Air Law and Human Factors & Limitations passed so only 5 more to go!

[Pom pom]

Hope you don't mind the slight thread drift but I was just reading this post and hoping to see some reference to my PPL instructor, Bill Robinson, who taught me at Blackpool in the early eighties. I then moved "darn sarf" and lost touch. I believe he started his own school at Liverpool. If any of you who trained/taught at Liverpool have any info on Bill, I would be very grateful.

Regards, PP :ok:

[igarratt]

It is reassuring to see at least two posters praising Neil as instructor, he is my instructor and I am very happy with his method and personality.

and a third.. not flow with Neil that much but GA at Liverpool is quite close-knit and know Neil's instruction, while many instructors are waiting for that hop to the airlines and do a good job there are others of us that are more carer instructors that love to see students progress, strive to give the best possible training and always try to go above and beyond in anyway we can. IMHO Neil for sure falls in the latter and it's reflected in the quality of those that have done their PPL with him :ok:

Ian

[Miken100]

I've flown with most of the clubs at Liverpool over the past 15 years (not been to Merseyflight though) as well as a short stint at LAC @ Barton (culminated when I wanted to do my Night and IMC). I have flown with some great instructors in all of those clubs (many of which went on successfully into airline jobs) and a couple of poor (disinterested) ones (I just asked to change at the time if it wasn't right). Last Saturday I went down to Lomac to recommence flying after an 18 month break and I have to say I was overwhelmed by the warmth and sincerity of the welcome from Rod, Neil, Paul and Jimmy et al at the new clubhouse. One thing to think about is what to do after you get the PPL.... as such I need a club which is just that rather than a flying school who possibly lose interest in you after you qualify. Good luck with your PPL B2V. Mike

[josh7]

Hi guys, just a quick video of a trial lesson from liverpool with merseyflight (minus the ground briefings) this is just a quick video i did on my break, i realise the quality isnt fantastic but hopefully gives a taster of what it entails.

Merseyflight Trial Lesson - YouTube

[MadMac]

Hi all,

I'm keen to start (re-start) flying training at Liverpool. As it is only 10 minutes or so from my house, it makes sense to train here. I've only popped in to Merseyflight so far who were friendly enough.

What are the current feelings about the flying schools here? Any help/recommendations appreciated. It has been well over 3 years since the last post on here?

Thanks in advance