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felixthecat
14th Sep 2011, 13:42
Hi all

Just a quicky, is JP1 the same as Jet A1?? and if not is it classed as a wide cut fuel?

Tmbstory
14th Sep 2011, 14:54
felixthecat:

The information I have is on JT 1 and Jet A1. I cannot help with JP 1

Tmb

wrmiles
14th Sep 2011, 17:07
I believe that in some places, JET A and/or JET A1 is called JP-1, but officially JP1 doesn't exist.

There was U.S. spec for JP1 back in the late forties, but it was quickly abandoned because it called for a combination of low volatilty and low freezing point that made the fuel very difficult, if not impossible, to produce. The spec is not even available anymore.

I once tried to get a spec reference to what is called JP1 in some countries, without success.

I am writing this from my experience as a fuel systems engineer (now retired).

Brian Abraham
15th Sep 2011, 04:31
JP-1 (for "Jet Propellant") was an early jet fuel, specified in 1944 by the U.S. government (AN-F-32). It was a pure kerosene fuel with high flash point (relative to aviation gasoline) and a freezing point of −60 °C. The low freezing point requirement limited availability of the fuel and it was soon superseded by other "wide cut" jet fuels which were kerosene-naphtha or kerosene-gasoline blends. As with JP-1, JP-2 and JP-3 no longer exist.

Air BP - About Aviation - The History of Jet Fuel (http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=4503664&contentId=57733)

felixthecat
15th Sep 2011, 05:18
Thanks for the info, the reason I ask is that one of the airfields that I use as an alternate states that the fuel available is JP-1 and I am used to Jet A and Jet A1 and didn't want to possibly get stuck somewhere with no usable fuel.

Many thanks

Brian Abraham
15th Sep 2011, 05:39
one of the airfields that I use as an alternate states that the fuel available is JP-1Where might that be felix?

I did find this http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp75-c3.pdf in which Fuel Oil No. 1 also goes by the names of kerosene, coal oil, range oil, JP-1 and JP-5, among a few others.

What type of aircraft you operating? Is JP-1 listed as an acceptable fuel?

Sociedad
15th Sep 2011, 13:05
Jet A and Jet A-1 are similar to JP8. By the way, Jet A-1 is widely used in China, which is called "Jet Fuel No.3".

felixthecat
15th Sep 2011, 15:02
Thanks for the info guys the airfield is in Pakistan Nawabshah OPNH, it wouldn't in any form be a place I would want to drop into but doing sim upgrade at the moment and one of the ones listed in our manual as an alternate.

Brian Abraham
15th Sep 2011, 22:49
Looking at various publications on Pakistan airport facilities the fuel listed throughout is NC-A1, though a search provides no info on specs. The publications describe NC-A1 variously as "Jet A1, without icing inhibitor" and "Jet B, wide cut turbine fuel, without icing inhibitor".

Could it be that it equates to the NATO F-44 which is a military high flash point kerosene type aviation turbine fuel with FSII used by ship borne military gas turbine engine aircraft in most NATO countries. Also known as JP-5 or AVCAT/FSII JET A and JET B.

JET A is a civil grade of kerosene type aviation turbine fuel only supplied for operations in the United States. It has a freezing point of -40°C max which differs from JET A-1 (-47oC). JET B is a civil grade of wide cut type aviation turbine fuel which has a different freezing point (-50oC) from F-40 (-58oC) and does not normally contain FSII.

Thats direct from the NATO manual.

So it's anybodies guess I guess. I'm up a creek without a paddle.

Paul Kidger
21st Sep 2011, 11:18
My background was one of the oil industry, but many years ago. Regarding comments some time ago about possible mixing of Jet A-1 and other fuels, for example 28 sec Kerosene, i believe that when transporting the fuels by pipeline, there was an agreed sequence so that aviation kerosene was always separated from other fuels by a similar product, probably 28 sec Kerosene. In a pipe, the grade separation is never clear cut and over a long distance the interface can become quite long. Therefore I think that the separation was ensured by a 'pig': a piston like device inserted either side of a grade change. 'The introduction of a 'pig' into the line was via a 'pig launcher' and its collection was via a 'pig-trap'.
Don't forget that for land and marine applications, gas turbines are often fired on low sulphur gas oil (Low Duty diesel). The Navy were a 'single fuel' organisation; the fuel being 35 sec gas oil. I'm not sure what the carrier aircraft fuel was, whether this is gas oil or a 'heavier' version of Jet A-1.
Incidentally, has anyone noticed how similar the smell is between jet exhaust and that from an electric cooker after kitchen painting using an oil based paint? I seem to recall that Avtur has many similarities with white spirit as well as kerosene.