Masters of Aviation Management

[Cluster Drain]

I was thinking of doing some tertiary education with a view to moving into a desk job, in particular an airline desk job and I was wondering if anyone might know how the Masters qual is viewed by the airline industry employment decision-makers?

I have an ATPL(Helicopter). Nope, I'm not an airline pilot. :{

Do have bunch of different helicopter flying experience (multi-engine, EMS, Offshore...even some heli-mustering - dubious value...:} )

Airlines have always been a point of interest for me and, since I don't actually want to become an airline pilot, the tertiary qualification seemed like the next best entry point.

The average Masters degree costs around $AUD14,000-$16,000 (although there is HECS-HELP). So, I don't want to go rushing in if it has no real competitive advantage.

I've been looking at the online courses with Griffith, Uni of Newcastle and Swinburne. The latter looks the most industry-relevant (albeit it's also the longest). Anyone care to comment on the best course?

Any ideas gratefully accepted.

CD

[Keg]

Probably better served doing a masters of business or commerce. Your aviation background makes you more qualified than most of our non pilot managers and the different degree allows you to diversify if circumstances require it.

[TSRABECOMING]

Swinburne uni has the master degree program. I graduated last year. You can search the uni's website (or you can PM me)
TS

[Worrals in the wilds]

Many coursework Masters are modular, in that you can do a number of subjects and get a Grad Cert, add a few more and get a Grad Dip or do the lot and get a Masters.

This is something that's worth bearing in mind when you choose an institution, a course and subjects, because if you run out of puff and/or time before doing the full Masters you still have something to show for the work you've completed.

Have you done any tertiary study before? If not (or if it was back in the days of card catalogues, Student Protests and lecturers smoking pipes in class) it's well worth taking whatever First Year elective on tertiary writing the uni has on on offer, to brush up on your essay skills, the intitution's referencing protocols and the joys of writing to specific marking criteria (as opposed to the pipe smoking days where your mark depended on whether Professor X assessed your availablilty for post-lecture 'discussions' :eek:). It can boost your marks by a grade or more without having to put out, which is a good thing. :}

Almost all unis have these sort of courses available because the current year 12s can generally either write whole sentences or add up but not both at the same time :hmm:.

[FireBatHero]

Many coursework Masters are modular, in that you can do a number of subjects and get a Grad Cert, add a few more and get a Grad Dip or do the lot and get a Masters.

This is something that's worth bearing in mind when you choose an institution, a course and subjects, because if you run out of puff and/or time before doing the full Masters you still have something to show for the work you've completed.

Have you done any tertiary study before? If not (or if it was back in the days of card catalogues, Student Protests and lecturers smoking pipes in class) it's well worth taking whatever First Year elective on tertiary writing the uni has on on offer, to brush up on your essay skills, the intitution's referencing protocols and the joys of writing to specific marking criteria (as opposed to the pipe smoking days where your mark depended on whether Professor X assessed your availablilty for post-lecture 'discussions' http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gif). It can boost your marks by a grade or more without having to put out, which is a good thing. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/badteeth.gif

Almost all unis have these sort of courses available because the current year 12s can generally either write whole sentences or add up but not both at the same time http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/yeees.gif.


A little hypocritical don't you think..?

[Seabreeze]

Suggest you might also have a look at the UNSW Aviation postgrad courses which are also available on line. They are offered by distance and fees are eligible for the Fee Help loan system. Without a bachelors degree you can still enter the Grad Cert, and work though the Grad Dip to a Masters Degree.

A close look at the different course outlines for the courses offered by the different institutions would inform you as to the strengths of and differences between programs.

These programs won't guarantee you a desk job, but if the courses are good quality then you should enhance your chances of interview and then of employment.

good luck

SB

[VH-FTS]

I'm curretly studying at Griffith. Although I find most of the subject matter interesting, I haven't been very impressed by the way some subjects have been run. For example, lectures being posted weeks late, shifting of the goal posts when it comes to assignments, and some poor lecturers.

I've considered finishing up at the Grad Cert stage then transferring my credit to another uni. The University of Newcastle course appeals to me as the course work subjects look interesting and it can be done via distance education.

Has anyone had anything to do with Uni of Newcastle's program and can comment on the good, the bad and the ugly?

[4Greens]

Agree with SeaBreeze, UNSW has a good course. In the job market, any qualification moves you further up in the queue.

[Worrals in the wilds]

A little hypocritical don't you think..?Did I make some grammatical error? Feel free to enlighten me. I wasn't aware that PPRuNe was peer reviewed :}.

I'm not referring to inane rules of grammar but things like basic sentence construction, referencing and refraining from using Wikipedia as a source.

It is just my observation from three bouts of tertiary study; the first in the 1990s, the second in the mid 2000s and the third at present. I study alongside students who are mainly school leavers; many of them are extremely bright and ambitious but lack a grounding in referencing and academic writing. It's particularly noticable amongst the students who took science subjects for years 11 and 12.
These skills used to be taught at school. Now they aren't.

[Cirronimbus]

"Has anyone had anything to do with Uni of Newcastle's program and can comment on the good, the bad and the ugly?"

I'm currently studying via distance education with Uni of Newcastle. I am thoroughly enjoying the course and find the instructors are very helpful and have plenty of relevant experience. The material I am studying is interesting and useful and has relevance to other aspects of life, not just to what happens in the cockpit. I am not a professional pilot but I have worked as aircrew, ground crew and in operations, admin and management, and the course content has been useful in all of those fields (at least I think so anyway). Various employers have also recognised the relevance of the course to their businesses.


The "bad" and "ugly" side amounts to having to deal with assignments and reading after working all day (or night). You need to do a lot of reading and research and that can be hard to do when working full time.


I would recommend the course but you would have to think about whether it suits your needs; everyone is different.


Good luck with it if you choose to undertake any study.

[Progressive]

I am a graduate of the Uni of Newcastle masters in aviation management, I did this course correspondence while working full time as a LAME. Despite these challenges I was able to finish the masters in 18 months.

Finding time to study and write papers after work can be troublesome however the content of the course was good as were the opportunities to network with people from other sides of the industry/globe.

My qualifications have been well received by employer's (although I did not go for pilot jobs) and have recently helped me gain a much better position lecturing in human factors for engineers.

[Cluster Drain]

Thanks heaps for taking the time to give me your view. Really appreciate the comments from each of you.

Keg, You make an excellent point about diversifying but I just can't bring myself to do a degree in something as dry as business of commerce. If it has a little aviation relevance, i might be able to swallow the prospect of study a little more easily.

TSRA, I'll PM u, thanks.

Worrals, I think you make a good call about brushing up on tertiary writing. It's an art in itself. Be buggered that Wikipedia is not considered academic enough! :}


Seabreeze, I just had a look at UNSW Aviation. Didn't realize they offered the Masters. Re. getting direct into the Masters, I had hoped that with an ATPL + 'industry experience' + Diploma in an unrelated field I might have enough ROPL to go straight into the Masters. That's what some of the uni websites are suggesting but UNSW looks a little more hard core. :bored: I was hoping to avoid any of the Masters degrees that involved a research paper and just stick to the degrees that offer study units only.

FTS, interesting about Griffith Uni. It is QLD, after all...ayy...:}

4 Greens, thanks for the info.

Cirronim & Progressive, good to hear Uni Newc is relevant and interesting. Your personal opinions are valuable as it's hard to discern fact from spin when trolling through all the uni websites. Congrats to you, Progressive. Fulltime work and a Masters in 18 mths: no walk in the park. :D

Cheers all,
CD.

[Worrals in the wilds]

Be buggered that Wikipedia is not considered academic enough! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/badteeth.gif


It's very academic. The way you use it is to find out what the wiki editor used as their sources and then go read (and cite) them. :E

Aviation courses (and I've done one) are basically the same as standard management courses. If you already work in aviation and want to learn about economics, project management, business studies et al, aviation based examples are naturally more interesting.

At the end of the day, IME a degree is a degree is a degree. Unless you're looking at an academic career or a profession, it doesn't matter too much what it's actually in or what marks you get as long as they give you a fancy piece of paper. Good luck either way! :ok:

[Seabreeze]

CD:

Suggest that you have a look at the subject coordinators for each subject. Most unis will have these people listed, so you can see what their background is, what level of experience they have had, and how you might improve your own networking by doing their subject and getting to know them.

Being able to put a research thesis on a potential employers desk at interview can be an advantage. A research project is all about finding more about a topic by finding relevant literature and putting the sometimes conflicting ideas together in a coherent way.

Having been at a few interviews, I would say that detailed and careful answers showing a depth of understanding is more important than simply having the ticket. So your overall subject choice will provide you a background in which you are better informed, and in which you will have a better chance at a job.

Progressive:

Sounds like a superhuman task; hats off to you. With a full time job and full time study all at happening at the same time, I hope the budgerigar and dog were not neglected.

SB

[Stikybeke]

Worrals is correct!!!!:eek:

"It's very academic. The way you use it is to find out what the wiki editor used as their sources and then go read (and cite) them. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif"

This approach has always seemed to get me over the line...I stumbled onto it awhile ago when I had to (even at my somewhat ever advancing age ) undergo the torture of assignment writing as part of a Grad.Cert in something. My advice is just do what you have to and get over the line. People don't really put too much store on whether you get a distinction or credit.....If you ask me "P" is for pass. That's all you need and if Wikki can help then go for it. No-one ever pulled me up on it and it made by Bibliography look reeeaaal flash. Oh, also, Microsoft Office 2010 will do all your referencing for you when you write in word. BTW, I passed.

Stiky
:ok:

[Progressive]

Cluster Drain, the MAvM at Newcastle would probably accept you straight into masters as they take industry experience very highly. You will need a letter from your employer stating haw long you have been in aviation. Just apply and see what happens! I was surprised when I got in but the work is not to difficult if you apply yourself.
This course is 50% aviation human factors and 50% electives from the business stream - not just business.

Seabreeze: Luck I dont have a budgie or a dog, but I do have a very supportive partner who deserves a shout out.

[Fly_by_wire]

I thought I would bump this rather than making a whole new thread.

I'm specifically looking for feedback/opinions from people who have finished or currently studying the post-grad aviation courses at UNSW. I like the structure of the courses there and they seem to have some very experienced course coordinators from industry. I'm keen to hear your expeniences and if you feel it was worth the $. Thanks :ok:

[Falling Leaf]

The UNSW coursework is pretty good. I have only done three units so far, and they have been interesting and relevant to my own career, however..

One criticism I have is that some of the course material and readings are around 10 years old; they haven't been updated since the course material was written. I imagine the course co-ordinator's they use are casuals and most are probably not paid to spend a lot of time reviewing the material and bringing it up to date. Some of the units could have benefited from some basic proof reading! You don't expect to pay $2880 for a course unit that is riddled with errors, and that you would be embarrassed to submit yourself.:ugh:

Like most things in life though, you will get out of it what you put into it. From what I've heard about other uni's, they are pretty much the same. I believe 2/3 of uni staff these days are casuals. That's where the rot starts, the focus is on the income via fees, not the product which requires continual investment.

[Capetonian]

I am currently running an AVM 4502 which is a module of a Masters in Aviation Management. As Falling Leaf said, I'm doing this on a part time ad hoc basis although I hope my standards are higher than he mentions.

Goals : Applies business management concepts and techniques to the decisionmaking and problem-solving processes and situations in an aviation
business. The theory is applied through the use of an airline simulation
software providing operations research techniques, process analysis,
forecasting tools.

Topics : Financial Strategies
* Working with Financial Statements
* Capital Budgeting Techniques
* Funding Mechanisms
Economic Strategies
* Understanding Market Forces
* Economics of Competition
* Commercial Alliances
Management Strategies
* Business Models
* Strategic Planning
* Organisational Capability and Workforce Planning
Marketing Strategies
* Market analysis, capacity controls and yield management
* Reservations systems
* Service and Performance Marketing tools Management.
Airline Simulation
* Regular & Low Cost Airline
* Business Affair Airline
* Time Sharing Airline

If anyone is interested in further details, PM me.

[tarmac12]

I called UNSW on Thursday last week to talk to them about the Grad Cert that I heard about. I will be applying this week and look forward to getting back into learning.

A question for anyone already doing/done the course, can you reasonably expect to get through 2 subjects per semester without stressing yourself out too much? Would the course work be about the same hours per week as a HSC subject? I did my HSC by distance a couple of years ago and to get it all out of the way I took on the minimum four subject to complete it in one year. I passed with decent results but if given the option again I wouldn't have taken on that much as I pretty much didn't do anything other than study and work for 9 months!

[Falling Leaf]

Depends what sort of hours you work. If you were doing 9-5 and had no chance of doing study during work time, I would only do one course/semester. If you only work (fly) 12-14 days per month, or spend most of your office time on FB or solitaire, then two subjects is achievable.

Best option - enroll in one, and judge the commitment for yourself. You can always take on more work...

[kellykelpie]

Hi Tarmac12,

I found that 1 per semester was enough if working full time. There are some half units and I tried 1.5 a couple of times but this ramps the workload right up and can reduce the quality of your work.

There was a story of someone completing the whole masters program in 18 months full time - not sure if true. I would allow 4 years if you have a job.


Can't recommend the UNSW course highly enough and it certainly accelerated my Airline management career. I found the benefits came even before the qualifiation was obtained as the assigments facilitated interaction leading to opportunities.

Good luck.

[tarmac12]

Thanks everyone,

I think just one subject for the first semester will be the safe bet. I would love to have to play cards on my laptop to waste away my working day but unfortunately I do have to get out of my chair quite often.

Cheers.

[monkeymadness]

CD,
Good luck with your study. I felt the same way you did/do about a year ago, wanting to be more than someone in the left or right seat pushing the power levers up. I too was given advice to do an MBA or a business degree, but most academic institutions would not accept my application as I did not have relevant experience in that field of study or any degree. And there were no aircraft involved!

I have settled on Newi Uni Masters of Aviation Management, starting in a couple of days.

MM.
:cool:

[DTE]

Hi All,

I undertook a Masters in Aviation Management following the Ansett collapse in 2001. I quickly found that log books and licences weren't really recognised anywhere outside the wonderful, but narrow, job description as a pilot.

I wrote an article on aviation tertiary education a while back, here it is. Careers in Aviation, A Degree of Satisfaction. An Aviation Blog by Owen Zupp. (http://www.owenzupp.com/_blog/Owen_Zupp/post/Careers_in_Aviation,_A_Degree_of_Satisfaction_An_Aviation_Bl og_by_Owen_Zupp/)

Personally, it was a very worthwhile experience, but I also recognise that everone's situation is different.

Cheers,

Owen