LHR Shame on you!

[moist]

LHR, shame on you, an absolute sh*thole of an airport. A carousel numbered 0???
UK passport arrivals (chip) check, rubbish, slow, clumsy system, poor foreign arrivals 3 hours delay at immigration, yuk!
Who ever "runs" the place could do with a slight beheading!:ugh:

[Little Blue]

Not a patch on BHX, that's for sure?? ;)

But, I concur...LHR is shocker, these days. !

[Skipness One Echo]

It's the UK Border Agency that are continually dropping the ball on this. For once I find myself defending BAA!

UK Border Agency | Home Page (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/)
Write to them, it might be slightly more helpful but I know how you feel.

Frighteningly enough, if one googles the UK Border Agency, the Number One link at the top is not the organisition itself but :

"Immigration in the UK | migrantsrights.org.uk
Migrants' Rights Network (MRN) | Working for the rights of all migrants (http://www.migrantsrights.org.uk)
Latest information on immigration from the leading charity"

There's the reason why they're struggling methinks.

[FlyingEagle21]

Yes Belt 0 at T4...

[Llademos]

What's wrong with a belt 0? If you want to have another belt, to the left of belt 1, this would seem to be logical.

Agree with the rest, though.

[Jarvy]

I will stick up for LHR, as a regular through T5 I have never had any problems. You should try LGA or JFK, bloody hopeless!

[ross_M]

What's wrong with a belt 0? If you want to have another belt, to the left of belt 1, this would seem to be logical.


What if they need a few more? Belt "00" "000" ; or "Belt -1"

[moist]

For the defenders of LHR, belt 0 in fact is belt 00. So when you pour into that horrible 'work in progress', disgusting, smelly carousel hall, you come to a screen that tells you which flight, which carousel.
BUT all the belts are numbered 01 02 03 etc, so as you are a mile away from belt 01 at that point, you are awaiting for a sensible number for your flight to appear.
As it happens it was showing belt 00, as if we are about to get a NUMBER on the screen.
Only after some 5 minutes I thought perhaps these idiots are stupid enough to have numbered a belt 00???
So then some 300 + people woke up like us and started migrating to the far end only to discover that a bloody belt has actually been numbered 0 (Not 00, but who cares).
Just think, next year it's OLYMPIC turmoil year, with lots of foreign passports, give me strength.
They are a bunch of useless idiots and that's that. I have seen trees more intelligent then this lot!:=

[Yellow Pen]

As it happens it was showing belt 00, as if we are about to get a NUMBER on the screen.

So you can't understand there's a belt 00 and that's BAAs fault? Never assume.

[PAXboy]

On Saturday, I saw my sister out through T3, her last trip was T5. She said after the journey: "I said some bad things about T5 - but that was before I came back to dear old T3 ..." In other words, nothing good to say about EITHER T3 or 5! :hmm:

[Shack37]

So you can't understand there's a belt 00 and that's BAAs fault? Never assume.


That's it, defend at all costs. How dare anyone criticise Heathrow. Belt numbering 00 obviously far too logical for common airport users.

[moist]

Yellow Pen, you are one of them, I can smell it :-((

[TightSlot]

Try and behave like adults please...

[Crazy Voyager]

I've been through T3 a few times, never any other terminal though.

Been to and from LHR using both Underground and coaches. Travelling both with check-in luggage and without.

Yes it's bloody big, it can be crowded. But I don't think it's that horrible really.

Immigration lines haven't been too bad, around 10 minutes average for me I'd guess, which is not to bad.

Security has always been fine.

The only downside is the lack of seating out of the main area (I prefer to sit by the window and look at planes to shopping), but sometimes you can find an empty gateroom and stay there for a while and that usually works fine.

There are plenty of signs and info screens and as long as you can read and follow arrows finding your way is quite easy (according to me anyway).


Sure it's big, and sure it's crowded, but that bad, no I don't think so. To be honest I think it works quite fine.

[moist]

CV, they have announced to the waiting crowds at Arrivals on the PA last night that foreign passport holders are expected to stand in line for over 3 hours.
When it works it works, when it doesn't, that is when people like me start writing about it.
I flew (last as B737 capt.) for 22 years until last month, I know how the system works and when it is badly managed.
No one should be queuing up for 3 hours, just to get through to a sour faced %&$£.
As I said, I was the lucky one, but T4 is rubbish and that's that!:{

[radeng]

moist

All of LHR is disgusting. BAA is Bloody Awful Airports. Public floggings and executions of BAA and Border Agency managers would be a good start - pour encourager les autres.

[Hotel Tango]

There was a time when I didn't have too much choice. Now I do. Haven't used Heathrow for more than 10 years. I try and avoid the place at all costs.

[Anagram]

I don't know if you guys normally fly private jet or something, but I've found LHR quite a fast, easy and comfortable airport to get around. And it shouldn't be rocket science to find where the 00 belt is.

But, you know, I clearly have a vested interest in defending LHR at all costs.

[radeng]

I've only been through LHR 35 times so far this year. It will be 36 after tomorrow. Such idiocies as no towels in toilets, only hot air hand driers. For example, does it never occur to these idiots that people coming off a long flight might want to wash their faces? The annoyance in T5 of having to do a route march to get to lounges because they insist on having you pass over priced shops that you have no intention of buying anything from. The frequency with which lifts, escalators and moving walkways break down for several days, and the T5 lifts where only one out of the three is working at any one time. And of course, don't mention last winter's appalling lack of snow clearing...

All really down to the greed of a poor management

[Jarvy]

Come on people, on a recent arrival into JFK we waited over an hour for immigration and that was at the US passport holders. Then on trying to find our baggage it was on two different carousels! Never had any problems like that at LHR!

[transmitforDF]

We had a terrible time at T4 having arrived from st maarten via CDG. Having literally just stepped foot off the air bridge two security guards immediatlly and aggresively ask for passports when nearly 5 metres behind them you can see the passport control desks. Oh and theres only two open with two massive ques and several closed desks.

Then having finally passed through the calamity of arrivals you walk through the middle of a corridor lined with security men with their arms folded giving you the "stare" as if you're on deathrow. Welcome home......:(

[PAXboy]

LHR will continue to make money because of where it is and that pax, either, go through it rarely or the regulars who put up with it due to location. The rest go elsewhere, but there are always new generations of pax willing to try it.

radengAll really down to the greed of a poor management It is just that, poor mgmt. Simple example:

Last Saturday later afternoon. The T3 car park had long queues to get in (it was that time of day) and having parked, I was reminded about the penny pinching that went on in the construction. There are only four lifts for the five storey park. I did not count the spaces on a floor but there is obviously more than 250 - so at least 1,250 spaces. The lifts are always full and people wanting departures, get in them when they are going up, so wasting more time. You all know how it works. (or doesn't work)

So I looked at the space available and each tower could easily have had three lifts each not two, by making the towers wider as the ground space is available, but why not four each side? Currently, if they lose one lift - they lose 25% of capacity. Since the mgmt know that losing one runway is 50% of capacity - and the problems that produces ... but No. Saving money at construction, on a project with a 20 year life span, is far more important. I see this constantly in many companies, not just airports.

BAA saved money and the cost of installing more lifts now would be massive. So, one can say, that they cannot even make the lifts run on time. :rolleyes:

[adfly]

Having only been through T5 at Heathrow I've never had any real problems with it and although the Bloody Awful Airports (BAA) comment is true to some extent lets not forget little SOU, not the most spacious or well facilitated of airports but it is so quick and easy to travel through and the staff are friendly and useful. The best part is how you can be in a Taxi on your way about 10-15mins after getting off the plane! :)

[Jarvy]

So you believe that the number of lifts is an indicator of the quality of an airport?
When was the carpark built, I guessing it was built in some earlier time when traffic was less.

[Skipness One Echo]

The multi storey at T3 was demolished and rebuilt in 2006/7. It was moved to make way for the new T3 forecourt. However anything in the central area is space constrained.

[PAXboy]

Jarvy As SOE has said, the car park in question is less than five years old and replaced a VERY old one. THis park was built, long after T5 construction was under way and meant to be part of the wholesale redevelopment of Terminals 1/2/3. For example, T2 is curently closed and being completed replaced.

So, Yes, I am suggesting that a brand new car park being designed in the 21st century, for more than 1,250 vehicles, for people who are going to use trolleys and roller bags and baby carriages - needs more than four lifts. If losing one lift (25% of your capacity) is considered acceptable - then they do not know what they are doing.

I should say that I spent 27 years in I.T. and telecommunications, providing business critical services. For example, at one client (also in transport but not airports) I had to ensure 100% redundancy of service. I've worked in the financial district, so calculating what happens if 25% of the service fails - is something I know about. Adding more lifts is just about the easiest thing to do. When they all work, you have a great service and when one of them fails, you still have a good service.

I have worked in service industries for 34 years.

[antonovman]

"We had a terrible time at T4 having arrived from st maarten via CDG. Having literally just stepped foot off the air bridge two security guards immediatlly and aggresively ask for passports when nearly 5 metres behind them you can see the passport control desks."

They were probably doing a magnificent job of stopping umpteem illegal immigrants from getting into the UK and then to be given homes and money for the rest of their lives out of our taxes.!

The reason its done at the aircraft door is so they cant rip up their passports and swill them down the first toilet they come to then claim asylum

[manintheback]

T5 tends not to be too bad

T3 the other week. Bussed from plane, a walk followed by a 45 minute queue at immigration. Still the luggage was waiting for us already so what you lose on immigration you sort of make back again.

Just too many people for too small an airport.

[Dan Winterland]

It's poor. I live in Asia now and have to listen to accounts of when my colleagues take their first trip to the UK and the first thing they see is T3! Not a great impression. Compared with the big Asian airports such as Hong Kong, Singapore, Bangkok, Seoul, it's third world. Even provincial airports in China such as Hangzhou, Guangzhou and Chegdu beat it.

Indeed - shame!

[ross_M]

The reason its done at the aircraft door is so they cant rip up their passports and swill them down the first toilet they come to then claim asylum


I see. So why wouldn't the huddled masses do their rip-n-flush routine on the plane before it lands? :confused:

It's not as if planes don't have lavs......

[Chuchinchow]

The reason its done at the aircraft door is so they cant rip up their passports and swill them down the first toilet they come to then claim asylum

Histrionically sound, Antonov, but factually rubbish. Were you expecting the "Daily Mail" to cut and paste your comment into tomorrow's issue?

[PAXboy]

They do try and lose the paperwork on board. A relative of mine used to work for the Border Agency. Another reason to be standing close to the disembarking pax is that of surprise. The pax are not expecting to be watched at that point and may be off their guard.

[Jarvy]

Paxboy, I have spent my life around transport and service industries so know abit more than you seem to give me credit for.
A friend arrived here in New York via Newark yesterday evening, 1 1/2 hours waiting at immigration with only 4 lanes open. Normal here but if you try and complain its all because of security don't you know. The longest wait at LHR has been about 15 mins. Lucky maybe be speak as I find.
The solution is much bigger than just putting on a few more staff. it includes new bigger airports and better approach (and usage) to public transport. Not going to happen in my life time, to many nimbys and a sure fire vote losser.
We can all talk about nice new airports that seem to be just right. A few weeks ago we went to Indianapolis Airport, nice new with no lines and a short walk to get the hire car. Only problem is its like that because it doesn't have any traffic and better yet no international flights.

[connoisseur]

Thousands of people may be employed by the Borders Agency at Heathrow but sadly they do little or no work in the true sense which is why the organisation is so carp at delivering the services we taxpayers are paying it to do.

all imho of course...................

[PAXboy]

Thanks for the background Jarvy, I didn't make any assumptions about you - other than that you might not be familair with the new T3 car park. This thread is commenting on several items about LHR, my 2 cents was just the car park. It is generally understood that LHR is a mess that the politicians dare not touch (over the past 30 years) and there is little that ANY owner can do to rectify it, other than level it.

I am looking forward to seeing the new T2 - because they are building it from scratch and (within confines of space) will be able to do anything in three dimensions. The brand new, built from scratch T4 opened in 1986 and not many people liked it. The brand new, built from scratch T5 opened in 2008 and it had (has?) problems. So I'm not expecting much from the new T2!

[Load Toad]

I'm flying back to UK from HKG for Christmas - have chosen flights that will fly into MAN. I despise LHR and avoid it at all costs. If HKG, Beijing, Singers &c can do good airports (& customs / Immigration) why not LHR?

[parabellum]

When I flew for a Middle Eastern airline I had to wait an hour at Frankfurt whilst engineers unblocked a toilet or two on the aircraft, that had been stuffed tight with documentation, before we could leave for Paris!


Possibly the Airbridge is not considered UK territory? If they stop an illegal in the airbridge maybe they haven't 'landed' so may not have the same rights as passengers who make it to the arrivals building?

[PAXboy]

parabellum You are in the right area. As I understand it, if UKBA ask questions first, then they have the legal upper hand. The numbers of people who try to blag their way in are high so some flights are met at the gate to be pre-emptive.

On one occaision, I disembarked at LHR to find my cousin on duty on the airbridge. The ground crew got jittery when they saw us talking - as they thought that they may have inadvertently brought in an undesirable (for which they would be charged). They had not seen us embrace before we started talking!!

[LondonPax]

On T5, to be fair although there were some pretty significant teething problems when it opened (for which some BA heads rolled), those have now been addressed, and using T5 is generally not a bad experience, at least compared to the other teminals. I have never had to queue more than 5 or 10 minutes for security, even when not entitled to use Fast Track.

A couple of issues remain though:

Immigration: you can still get big queues even at T5. Other terminals are even worse ... apparently the non-EU queue at T3 this morning was massive. They need to get more IRIS readers and equipment to read the machine-readable passports and - just as important - they need to keep them operational. Last few times I've been through LHR the IRIS machines have been shut. (They also need to improve signage: lots of time wasted at IRIS machines behind people trying to use them when they're not registered. D'oh!) But I have to say that JFK is worse, at least for non-US passport holders.

Stands: it's still way too common to get to LHR on BA and to park up away from the terminal and be bussed to the teminal. This was supposed to end when T5 came on line. Why is it still happening?

I agree with the comment about getting to the lounges - entrance to the BA lounge at T5 could be right after security (at the "far" end of T5) but you have to slog through the shops on two floors to get to it (unless you have access to the Concorde Room). Crazy.

Another thing that's bad about LHR (all terminals) is that tragic little duty free shop that you have to go through between customs and the exit to the arrivals hall. OK, it doesn't hold you up at all, but it stinks of cheap perfume, it's a tawdry reminder that all BAA thinks about is maximising revenue, and it's a bad advertisement for the UK. It's depressing. I can't think of any other airport I've been in that has that.

[Alanwsg]

They need to get more IRIS readers and equipment to read the machine-readable passports and - just as important - they need to keep them operational. Last few times I've been through LHR the IRIS machines have been shut. (They also need to improve signage: lots of time wasted at IRIS machines behind people trying to use them when they're not registered. D'oh!)Does IRIS still exist?
I came through Gatwick on Sunday and went looking for the IRIS readers and was told "they were withdrawn months ago"

[PAXboy]

LondonPaxWhy is it still happening?Money?
but you have to slog through the shops on two floors to get to itMoney. BAA plc makes more money from shopping than it does from getting aircraft on and off the ground.
tragic little duty free shop that you have to go through between customs and the exit to the arrivals hall.You are right. In an ideal world, we would select the items we want on a terminal in departures and collect them when we arrive. But we have to shift large amounts of stuff on and off the aircraft (and it has to be carried by the airline and may contain glass and flammable liquid in the form of whiskey rtc) because the airports make more money out of having shops in departures.

Sorry to harp on about money but I'm just too cynical for my socks.

[Capot]

tragic little duty free shop that you have to go through between customs and the exit to the arrivals hall

Is there anything in that ridiculous "shop" (= "trap for the terminally stupid") that is duty-free, meaning sold without UK Customs Duty, or is even free of VAT?

Is there anything in that TFTTS that is not at least 15% more expensive than it would be in any shop in the UK?

......................????

Thought not.

I should add that I have never, ever, seen anyone stopping to be robbed there, but I suppose it probably does happen.



It's a con, and people fall for it. I have never understood why.

[radeng]

An even bigger con is the Geneva duty free on departure. Thee's whisky there that I can get more cheaply in Tesco in Cirencester!

[marsie]

An even bigger con is the Geneva duty free on departure. Thee's whisky there that I can get more cheaply in Tesco in Cirencester!

You can buy most of it more cheaply at the nearest Denner supermarket in Geneva. And now Geneva airport has opened a 'duty free' shop in the Arrivals hall too :{

[occasional]

Anyone able to explain who - airline or BAA - is responsible for the transfer of baggage between terminals, and how it is scheduled ?

[Fargoo]

Does IRIS still exist?
I came through Gatwick on Sunday and went looking for the IRIS readers and was told "they were withdrawn months ago"

Last flew through T5 a couple of months back and went to register for IRIS but was told not to bother as they were phasing it out in favour of those crappy face recognition machines.

1 extra human does more for the queues than 4 of those machines when you see people stuck in there gurning and pulling faces until the computer says yes. I'd say 50% of people end up getting sent to a human anyway :ugh:

[PAXboy]

What's the betting the project has been signed off as a great success, with just a few teething troubles?

I recall a meeting with my then employer (early 90s) as everyone agreed that the IT project was a great success and the chairman signed the memo to the MD. Since I was the one sorting out the mess, I had to keep shtumm. There was no budget to fix the mess because (i) they'd spent all the money, (ii) to spend more money would be a public admittance they they had got it wrong.

Here is an example from today of how IT projects can go wrong:
BBC News - Failed fire project wasted £469m, says committee of MPs (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14974552)

But we won't learn the truth about the IRIS because it is being implemented by private companies and the UKBA will claim 'national security' means they cannot say anything.

I know, I know, I'm too cynical for my socks ... :rolleyes:

[PleasureFlyer]

If people don't want to slog down an escallator, walk past all the shops then up another 2 to get to the lounge (or 1 escallator if Gold card or Concorde room) then just go through south security, turn left and use the lounge right there on the same level.

[radeng]

The north lounge doesn't offer the same facilities as the south lounge.

[PleasureFlyer]

True, (and I realise I got my North and South mixed up - thanks for knowing what I really meant :) ) Suppose it all depends on what an individuals needs are, quick bite to eat or drink then of course either are fine.

Must admit I do like sitting in the South lounge at the window overlooking security watching all the infrequent flyers panic when they think their try full of stuff is about to vanish back into the system :rolleyes:

[wiggy]

went to register for IRIS but was told not to bother as they were phasing it out in favour of those crappy face recognition machines.


Yep, both machines working in T5A this AM but when asked by yours truely one of the officials confirmed that IRIS is being phased out in favour of facial recognition.

Trouble is my non-chipped passport still has 3 years of validity...ah well back to the future ( and the EU nationals queue) for me in:ugh: :ugh:

[Shack37]

Is this the way to go rather than employ more staff and open more positions? Personally, I'd rather see more staff than a relaxing of checks at busy times.

Warning over hasty passport checks - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/8815883/Warning-over-hasty-passport-checks.html)

[PAXboy]

Money (lack of) wins again. The REALLY interesting point is that this is now public knowledge. Thirty years ago, staff in the relevant departments would have kept shtum, now they don't.

It will be interesting to see if this breaks out to be a problem for the Tories who shout about the borders so much.

[Load Toad]

It's strange - I thought our continued war in Afghanistan was to keep us all safe from terrorism - yet the enhanced security at airports is what keeps us safe...well it's either one or the other isn't it? Surely if the war isn't what keeps us safe it's the security we can discontinue the war already. If it does keep us safe a rapid passport check isn't a major issue anyway.

[LondonPax]

Came through Heathrow T5 yesterday (Sunday) afternoon. Thank God IRIS is still working as I managed to use it and dodge a massive queue for EU passports. Then waited almost 30 mins for luggage. I know Sunday is a busy day but they need to do better than this.

[radeng]

Last friday night, the machines for reading passports electronically were not working very well, rejecting lots of passports. Lots of pissed off staff moaning about staff being cut and the service going to hell.

I bet Cameron and co don't have to line up. If they did, they might change things.