Airplanes have scanner problems?

[LETS FLY]

Does someone know if scanners are a problem for airplanes while flying? Cause always when i'm asking a stewardess if i may listen to my scanner for take-off etc., the stewardess always says that the pilot says no. Why?? Scanner only receive, and don't send anything like a mobile phone. Do scanners make problems while flying?

[batty]

No a scanner should not realy cause any problem with the aircraft,there is just the 'worry'that since it hasnt hasnt been screened as part of the aircraft equipment it 'might'(a very very small might)interfere with some equipment.

[LETS FLY]

OK, THANX. I just ask it anymore, cause you it isn't a big problem if i listen to it. And if i would ask it, i know the answer already.

[PaperTiger]

Not so fast. This topic has been discussed at length here and in other newsgroups. I can't remember the topic title, so I can't point you to the thread but IIRC the consensus was there is no consensus.

I can't speak for other jurisdictions, but here is what the US FAA says (the emphasis is mine):-
>quote

U.S. Federal Aviation Regulations
Sec. 121.306 Portable electronic devices.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any U.S.-registered civil aircraft operating under this part.
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to--
(1) Portable voice recorders;
(2) Hearing aids;
(3) Heart pacemakers;
(4) Electric shavers; or
(5) Any other portable electronic device that the part 119 certificate holder has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
(c) The determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that part 119 certificate holder operating the particular device to be used.

>end quote
Point is on a (US) airliner, the pilot does not have the authority to give or withhold permission. It's company policy, and does vary.

For sure if any member of the crew tells you not to, then don't. That's it, no discussion.

[Seat 22C]

As surprising as it may sound, a radio receiver (and therefore scanner) includes an operating transmitter ... and it's the transmitter part that makes the airlines, aircrews, FAA and others nervous.

The reason has to do with the frequency - It's easy to amplify low frequency signals and more difficult to amplify high frequency signals. Aircraft frequencies are generically high frequency. What a receiver does is merge the incoming high frequency with its own, internal high frequency transmitter to create both a SUM and DIFFERENCE frequency. The difference is designed to be low frequency - The amplifier amplifies it and you hear sound out the speaker. This is a gross oversimplification, but it makes the point.

Bottom line, a receiver includes a transmitter ...


[This message has been edited by Seat 22C (edited 26 May 2001).]

[LETS FLY]

OK, that are the rules. But for example: i hold my mobile phone close to the TV, than you see the TV oing strange things. But when i do that with my scanner, nothing happens. And than for the sound. If i hold my mobile phone close to my computer sound boxes i hear a strange sound, but with the scanner nothing. So i dont get know what the problem should be with the navigation and communication.

[PaperTiger]

Your scanner may be perfectly harmless, but that does not mean all are. Airlines are not going to test every different model and then provide the crew with a list of 'approved' models so they can say yes or no to you.

But there are some airlines who allow them, and some who do not. Ask, and obey the answer. Except during departure and arrival there's not a whole lot to hear anyway.

[LETS FLY]

Strange that they don't give a list from scanners who are harmless and who aren't :) . I think that all pilot whill say that i may not use them. But i do it anyway, cause i'm almost 100% sure mine is harmless. Thanx for your answers.

[Seat 22C]

LETS FLY wrote:

> i hold my mobile phone close to the TV, than you see the TV doing strange things. But when i do that with my scanner, nothing happens.

Actually, that makes sense - Mobile phone radiates on one set of frequencies, and scanner radiates on another. TV is more sensitive to one than the other ... Perfectly logical.

And that pretty much is the issue. No one has ever proven scientifically (!) that any of our toys create navigational interference. No one! Yes, I'm aware there are reams and reams of anecdotal evidence and I'm sure we all know someone who knows someone, etc.

And we can argue all day that if a megawatt radar or DME doesn't interfere with the aircraft navigational system, then how could my cell phone? But the bottom line is the FAA tends to err on the side of safety, and thus banning all transmitters (and receivers have a transmitting section) makes a lot of sense to pilots, aircraft manufacturers and so on ...

As for my anecdotal evidence - I've logged many hours in my private aircraft with cells phones inadvertantly turned on, laptop computers cheerfully displaying approach plates, Palm Pilots getting weather information via CDPD, and even a Bluetooth gadget working away ... and never a quiver from my navigational instruments.

So there you go ...

[LETS FLY]

OK. So you dont have that problem. So next time i just do it. I know now that it are the rules, but you haven't got any problem with a moble phone in your aircraft. And i also don't think, when i'm in the back of the aircraft, that the plane will land next to the runway, or crash. And if the pilots see there is a problem, they just talk in the microphone, that all passengers have to set of the equipment, because they have a problem with that. Cause witht this rules, a lot of pilots will say before taxi and take-off to turn off all electronic machines with a transmitter.

[drop bags bar]

Another reason is, I don't think I would want the pax in the back hearing about an emergency that's just been declared before the Cabin Crew have even been briefed etc. Can you imagine the chaos!

[LETS FLY]

HAHA :), no, i don't think they would like that. But i will just put an headset on, so they can't hear it :)

[batty]

Paper Tiger - you say that the pilot has no right to allow or disallow you to use a scanner on the aircraft. I am sorry but the captain has the ultimate say on the aircraft as regards to the safty of the aircraft and if he believes that it is unsafe then he/she has EVERY right to prevent its use.

As for not turning the scanner off until a problem has occured and the flight deck has asked you to turn it off. Hmmmm thats a bright idea!!! Of course as the ILS is 1 dot to the left of where it should be the crew will think, Gosh I wonder if anyone has a scanner on down the back!!

At the end of the day if you are told not to use something on the aircraft then dont use it, people who understand the systems have a reason for the objection.

As for mobile phones they are illegal to use in flight as well.

[This message has been edited by batty (edited 27 May 2001).]

[LETS FLY]

K, the captain is the boss. But, i used my scanner two times in the aircraft. And NEVER we had a missed approach, crash :), or that the pilot talk to the ATC to say he had a problem. So until the time he doesn't do that, i just put it on. And i think i'm not the only one :)

[batty]

Just because your not the only one doesn't make you right! There have been millions of murders none of them was the only one. If you are going to ignore what people tell you when you ask a question then why ask it?

If you have used the device twice and never had an overshoot that must prove its ok!!Hmmm I wonder how many times the comet flew before it first had a problem and crashed, at least twice so I guess there can't have actualy been anything wrong with it!!!

If you are told not to use the device and you do so then be aware that action could be taken against you.

[LETS FLY]

:), what would do than. Put me of the plane, or i have to go to court??

I asked this question on the forum because i wanted to know if it was a rule or just that pilots can say it, but it isn't a rule. Cause otherwise i would have said to the stewardess that it isn't a rule.

[batty]

You miss the point, if you are told on an aircraft not to use a device by a member of the crew THEN IT IS A RULE!!! You cannot challenge it, the Captain IS the ultimate authority on the aircraft and what he says goes. If it is incorrect he may be challenged on the ground in court BUT in the air what he says goes!! If it is part of the company standard operating procedures then he has to uphold it. Just listen to it on the ground before you get on, you will hear more anyway.

[PaperTiger]

batty

Yeah, this clown is bound and determined to use his scanner despite our answers. Nice to know he intends to use a headset rather than broadcast it to the entire cabin. Ye gods !
If he was discrete probably nobody would notice, but I suspect he'll be wearing an anorak and frantically scribbling numbers in a little notebook.

WRT my earlier post, what I meant to say is that if the airline's policy is no scanners, then the captain has to abide by it, even if he personally thinks scanner use is OK.



[This message has been edited by PaperTiger (edited 27 May 2001).]

[Steepclimb]

Lets fly it would be a pity if you found out at first hand why there are worries about using any radio equipment in an aircraft. It certainly would be interesting if your were to hear a Mayday or Pan call caused by the very thing you have in your hand.
Don't do it, it's not worth, if you continue to use it on board it will be confiscated ad you may even find yourself in trouble with the law.
Over the top reaction maybe! Nobody knows what effect your scanner has any piece of equipment on board the aircraft. You're playing with fire there.
And one other thing, there is no democracy on board an aircraft, what the Captain says goes, end of story. You don't have a choice

[This message has been edited by Steepclimb (edited 28 May 2001).]

[Lurk R]

Lets Fly - Go and do a search on the drug Thalidomide and see how it compares with your situation...

[Lucifer]

You can't use something thinking that if it hasn't caused a problem in the past then it won't in the future: there are a number of different frequencied of navigation equipment and new microwave and GPS technology being used all the time, and if the scanner you own happened one day to interfere on one of those frequencies, then you probably would not even know that you have caused a problem as you will be dead.

Neither can you say that you are 100% sure that a scnner does not affect systems, ad I assume you are neither from the FAA/JAA certifying these items, nor are you a scientist testing these. The suntle changes that happen may not be noticed in good weather, however one day in poor weather it could just create enough of a problem to be dangerous.

Lets fly: a mobile will probably have no effect in a light aircraft as nothing much is automated: it is sticks and strings as such, however a passenger jet is filled with electronics.

Disobeying the orders of any member of crew on an aircraft can bring imprisonment or a fine, along with a ban from flying on a particular airline, depending on their policies. You may not use electronic equipment without permission in any phase of the flight (ie chock to chock) hance why some airlines can ban even laptops in all stages of flight. The captain's decisions carry the force of law. Disobey them at your peril.

Go and book yourself some flying lessons and get over your silly obssession with listening to what everyone is saying. Start to do it yourself by learning to fly.

[This message has been edited by Lucifer (edited 28 May 2001).]