Radio Scanner/Transceiver

[WILCO.XMG]

Dear all,

I again require some of your great information.

I want to purchase a scanner to practice some RT. From other posts it seems the Maycom AR108 is the one in which many people recommend.
IC-A6E : Portable VHF COM Transceiver (Ground use only) - Handheld Aviation Radio : Icom UK - two way radio transceivers, receivers and navigation products (http://www.icomuk.co.uk/IC-A6E/Handheld_Aviation_Radio)

Then I feel it could be worthwhile to go out and purchase a transceiver. In case i ever have to squawk 7600. I feel it would be a sensible investment.

From other posts i see the Icom IC-A6E is what many people recommend. However in their website it states quite clearly in bold. (For Ground Use Only).
IC-A6E : Portable VHF COM Transceiver (Ground use only) - Handheld Aviation Radio : Icom UK - two way radio transceivers, receivers and navigation products (http://www.icomuk.co.uk/IC-A6E/Handheld_Aviation_Radio)

Am i missing a trick here?

Can someone give some information on wether a transciever would be a sound investment or should i just go for the AR108?

I appreciate ye all reading this.

:ok:

[mixture]

Have you done a search ? It's been covered before .... :cool:

here.... http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/376782-should-i-buy-scanner-transceiver.html (http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/376782-should-i-buy-scanner-transceiver.html)
or here..... http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/234464-portable-transceiver-question.html (http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/234464-portable-transceiver-question.html)
etc. etc.

[patowalker]

Then I feel it could be worthwhile to go out and purchase a transceiver. In case i ever have to squawk 7600.

If you have to squawk 7600, you have bought the wrong transceiver. :)

[BackPacker]

(For Ground Use Only)

Most likely some sort of legal disclaimer. I can assure you they work just fine in the air.

On the original question: I bought a second hand scanner (a Uniden Bearcat 200XLT if anyone cares) for 40 euro during my PPL training. It has had it uses but I really should have gone for a transceiver instead.

[Intercepted]

I recommend the Vertex VXA-300. You will get one for £200 and apart from being a tranceiver it has a VOR receiver built in as well.

[Whopity]

Both Vertex (Ex Yaesu) and Icom are very good. They are invariably not type approved for use in UK or EASA reg aircraft, and to use them on the ground you would need a radio station licence. That said, if you carried it in an aircraft and used it in an emergency nobody would be too bothered. To be honest its not much use for practising RT!

[Genghis the Engineer]

EASA made a massive cock-up when they took over avionics certification, they had all the national authorities wind down their approvals capability for airborne handhelds, but never re-established their own approval facilities.

So the older ICOMs carry approval numbers based upon UK CAA approval from the 1980s and 1990s, but the A6E, which postdates EASA, does not.


I have an A6E, it's a super piece of kit. To use with a headset you need two add-ons, one is the headset adapter, the other is an external PTT. Buy a PTT on eBay, it's much cheaper than the official ones and works just as well. It does admittedly turn into a bit of a birds nest of cabling, but not dangerously so.

Mine is not registered with RCA, because without an approval number, I can't. It still works perfectly well without that however and if the authorities give me no route to be legal, what can I do about it? CAA won't pursue anybody for using an unapproved handheld because of the public embarrassement that this would cause.

G

[WILCO.XMG]

Thanks for the reply all.

Genghis.

After some more research i have read some interesting reviews regarding the Icom manual. Many say that it is written poorly and thus impedes on learning the programming for the A6E.

Have you any experience regarding this?

[Genghis the Engineer]

As it's a backup, I don't usually bother programming it, just punch the frequencies in as required.

As for the manual, yes, useless. But on the whole, it is very intuitive and half an hour's mucking about one evening and I'd worked it out mostly on my own.

G

[FlyingStone]

ICOM A6/A24 manual can be found here (http://www.icom-france.com/files/not-A24_A6-angl.pdf). But as said, ICOM uses very intuitive interface and it's not that difficult to use, at least basic functions (entering frequency, setting squelch, tagging channels for scanning, recalling channels from memory).

I too own an A6 without having it registered, since I only use it for startup/ATIS and in case that aircraft's battery/alternator/avionics pack up. As Genghis says, I'd really like to see any CAA or inspector to punish you in any way for using an unregistered handheld transciever in case you have communication failure.

[trex600]

I have an old A3e too and although i'v never transmitted on it the battery life is sad! Im sure these days the newer model's must be better.. Iv also never registered it as i didn't know i was meant to 'Bought 2nd hand' years ago.

If you want this PM me a realistic offer but my advice would be purchase a newer version with a warranty :ok: (2 battery's)

[BackPacker]

the battery life is sad!

NiCd probably? They degrade over time, suffer from memory effect and all sorts of other things. They were relatively easy and cheap to get replaced (new ones were soldered in place of the old ones) but I don't know if that's still allowed. AFAIK the sale of NiCd is forbidden now in the EU.

My Bearcat has NiCd batteries too and the battery life is approaching 10 seconds on a good day.

[Whopity]

sale of NiCd is forbidden now in the EU.
Go in any DIY shop and they are full of drills stuffed with Nicads!
For better results replace old Nicads with NiMH cells that can always be found in the same sizes. I refilled my Icom with NiMH and the difference is a huge increase in battery life.

[patowalker]

I have an old A3e too and although i'v never transmitted on it the battery life is sad! Im sure these days the newer model's must be better.. Iv also never registered it as i didn't know i was meant to 'Bought 2nd hand' years ago.

If you want this PM me a realistic offer but my advice would be purchase a newer version with a warranty http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif (2 battery's)

Advertise it on here and it will be snapped up, as it is the microlighter's favourite. Because it is normally wired in, battery life is immaterial.

BMAA Forum (http://forums.bmaa.org/default.aspx?f=25)

[BackPacker]

I refilled my Icom with NiMH and the difference is a huge increase in battery life.

But can you charge NiMHs from a NiCd charger, or do you have to update the charging system as well then? Depending on how the unit is wired and where it gets its external power from, that might not be trivial.

[Zulu Alpha]

Get an ICOM or Yaesu/Vertex off ebay.

The battery will probably be no good but Combat Alexander do replacement batteries.

[BillieBob]

But can you charge NiMHs from a NiCd charger, or do you have to update the charging system as well then?Google is your friend - look here (http://www.spsys.demon.co.uk/icom.htm#A3E), for example. A replacement NiMH battery pack for the A3e, which uses the original ICOM charger, is under £30. There are plenty of other companies specialising in replacement batteries that may be even cheaper.

[Golf-Sierra]

WILCO,

in the links you gave it clearly states that the 'ground use only' thing is purely to do with it not having the appropriate approvals.

It also states: "Under the Wireless and Telegraphy Act of 2006 this radio can be used for emergency communication and navigation (VOR) should your life be at risk."


Regards,

Golf-Sierra

[Whopity]

But can you charge NiMHs from a NiCd charger,The original Icom charger has worked longer with the NiMHs that the NiCads, so long as it can cope with the additional capacity it is no problem. Most chargers are pretty crude devices and have no idea what is hung on the end of them

[trex600]

How do you test your radio legally?
If you was to make your first call for taxi on the handheld instead of the A/c set and then switch back for reply would Atc know and if so would they mind?

[Intercepted]

How do you test your radio legally?

You don't, you test it illegally.

If you was to make your first call for taxi on the handheld instead of the A/c set and then switch back for reply would Atc know and if so would they mind?

I'm sure ATC would know when I do it, since I'm sometimes outside the aircraft fully visible from the tower. Did they mind? No :ok:

[Whopity]

The radio only needs a type approval if fitted to the aircraft, not as a handheld. If used in the aircraft, it is covered by the aircraft radio licence which lists only the frequencies in use not the equipment, so testing it in such circumstances is not illegal. Why should ATC be concerned? Its nothing to do with them! If an Ofcom inspector sees you using it outside the aircraft, you could be prosecuted. They do have purges every now and again, usually associated with events, Silverstone etc.

[BackPacker]

Most chargers are pretty crude devices and have no idea what is hung on the end of them

It's not the charger I'm worried about. It's the NiMH batteries.

I was reading the Wikipedia article on NiMH and it clearly states that a NiCd charger should not be used automatically for NiMH batteries, including an explanation on why this is so.

Nickel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-metal_hydride_battery)

My Bearcat adapter will simply deliver 12V at 500mA and does not seem to incorporate an automatic cutoff once the NiMH voltage drop or any of the other mentioned conditions is detected. The battery pack itself is six NiCDs in series (7.2V, 600mAh according to the print, but that 600 mAh was a long time ago...). There is a tiny print board with what looks like three resistors, a diode and two capacitors, but that mainly seems to be there to power the red LED light to indicate external power. Again, nothing to indicate any form of intelligence to cut off the charging current once the batteries are full.

So as I understand it, if I were to replace the NiCds in this battery pack with NiMHs, I can easily cause the NiMH to be overcharged and thus blow their safety device thinghy. I'm not going to risk that.

[Jan Olieslagers]

I am not an expert on the matter but it seems to me that a very crude charger, like you apparently have, is the least dangerous because it charges slowly, i.e. at relatively low current. Try to find an indication of its charge current, it should be stickered on.

[[edit: actually, you seem to have an ADAPTER, not a CHARGER. There ought to be some charge regulation somewhere, probably in the BearCat? You should certainly NOT load batteries of any kind straight from an adapter!]]

The old rule was to charge with a current corresponding to a ten-hour charge, for example a 1000 mAh NiCad would be charged with 100 mA; because the charging process is less than perfect, 14 hours of charge was the rule.
Using such a charger you should not worry, just recalc the charge time and you'll be OK and relatively safe (relatively indeed: there is NO type of battery that is absolutely free from exploding during charge)
The ones you should distrust are the more recent superquick chargers that claim to fully load in 90 minutes or so: these depend on the characteristics of the battery being charged. Also they apply, by nature, much higher currents. I've a gut feeling this is harder on the batteries, reducing life-time and increasing the risk of overheating and explosion.

[Whopity]

My Bearcat adapter will simply deliver 12V at 500mAThat is the maximum it will deliver. Most chargers have a series resistor, so the load current will depend upon the load applied and not provide anywhere near a constant current. Quite often the voltage on a 12 v charger can be as as hight as 18 volts depending on whether there is a capacitor in the charger or if its output is unfiltered DC.

Beware of fast chargers, they are designed to match the batteries capacity and characteristics and provide short bursts of energy where a high current is drawn for a short period and can result in overheating.

Having used basic chargers on NiCads and NiMHs for years I have never had a problem. All appliances tell you only to use the correct charger which is not surprising when you see what some people plug in, all black blobs look alike!

[IO540]

Having designed various specialist (built-in) chargers in years gone by, I don't think that Wiki article is all that great.

The delta-V method works only on a fast charge, and fails if the battery is already fully charged, which means the charger needs to do a discharge first.

Today, most chargers are equally "good" for NICD and NIMH because they are dumb, and charge at about 0.1C at which rate you can't do much damage whatever you do. The cell voltage of the two technologies is very similar. The better ones detect battery temp rise, which is a very good method but it works only if you are charging at around 0.3C or higher (otherwise there is not enough power around to heat the battery up once it is fully charged) and one has to measure the temp differentially (battery versus charger ambient) which few chargers do.

LIPO batteries are a very different thing and they do require intelligent charging methods. There are loads of chips around which implement that. Some of the chargers are very pricey but very clever.