City University London

[ashrafmr]

Hi guys, I'm looking to enroll at City under the Air Transport Operations with ATPL course, but I'm quite unsure with what the course is really offering :(.

According to the website, City offers a frozen ATPL. Now this is where my curiosity begins; I hope someone could shed some light to the following questions(providing it goes in line with the course City offers of course! :p):

i. A frozen ATPL basically means that I have the necessary knowledge for an ATPL but not the required minimum flight hours? Upon reaching the minimum flight hours, the ATPL will be 'unfrozen', correct?

ii. Based on my interpretation of the website, I will get a CPL/IR with a frozen ATPL, is this true?

iii. I'm currently pursuing a diploma in Tourism Management in a local private university (due to graduate this December). My father suggests I take a PPL upon graduation (in Malaysia, as I am a Malaysian citizen) while waiting for the Sept 2012 intake. If I have a PPL when enroll at City, would I be at an advantage? Or does this have no effect whatsoever in regards with the course?

See here for reference:
Air Transport Operations with ATPL | City University London (http://www.city.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/air-transport-operations-with-atpl#course-detail=1)



Next is regarding post-graduation employment:

The requirements of an Air Asia FO are as follows
First Officer
A valid DCAM ATPL/Frozen ATPL with valid instrument and type rating
A valid DCAM medical certificate. (Class 1)
Holds a valid malaysian flying licence issued by DCA Malaysia
Malaysian Citizen or Malaysian Permanent Resident
(taken from here (http://www.airasia.com/my/en/corporate/jobsfirstofficer.html))

Based on the requirements stated, along with the course at City awarding a frozen ATPL, does this mean I'm eligible to apply for the position of FO? (Providing of course that I convert the frozen ATPL to a Malaysian one)

Could anybody shed some light on this, or maybe provide some detailed feedback regarding the course that City is offering? Thanks very much! :D

[drivez]

I've just deferred my place to City University for the year to pursue a few other things, but I think I can answer most of your questions regarding the course.

The frozen ATPL offered by the course is not in fact an integral part of the degree, unlike similar courses at Kingston and New Bucks university. It is set up in such a way as year two of the degree is designed to allow time for you to complete an ATPL. It is your decision whether or not to go integrated or modular at a school of your choice (the merits of each are discussed at length on this site), or indeed if you want to only do a PPL, or not fly at all. This offers some advantages in you are not tied up to a certain flying school when commencing the degree as with the other courses. However the disadvantage is your place at a flight school is not secured. You must arrange this yourself, although the university does help and has so far never failed to place a pupil at an FTO.

i. Upon leaving the FTO of your choice you will general have a CPL/IR ME with the ATPL ground school exams under your belt. You will have a frozen ATPL. The requirments by my understanding to then "unfreeze" this ATPL are 1500 hours which must include:

500 hrs multi-pilot in transport or commuter aircraft
250 hrs PIC (or 100 PIC and 150 PICUS)*
200 hrs cross country flights (100 as PIC or PICUS)
75 hrs instrument time
100 hrs night flight as PIC or co-pilot

ii. If you undertake full flight training in year two then yes you will have a CPL/IR with the ATPL exams complete (frozen ATPL)

iii. Having a PPL is not a requisite of an offer, however having one could be advantageous, I don't know. I did not have an PPL upon applying, but I am taking lessons, however I think two chaps did have one on the applicant day. Does it show an interest in flying? Yes. Will it alone get you on the course? Probably not. However i'd do it, just to have some fun in a little Cessna.

Competition for places is very high on the course. I was quoted as 150 applicants for 9-12 places. As such the academic requirements are quite high. The offers are AAB at A-level and in my offer this had to include Maths and Physics. Therefore before applying I would check you meet the requirements. If you don't, then check out some of the other unis offering the course.

With regard to post graduation employment I wouldn't like to guess. If your heart is on Air Asia, give them a call, explain the situation and ask the questions about whether the degree and JAA frozen ATPL would meet their requirements.

Hope that helps.

[ashrafmr]

Hi sorry for the late reply! Been very tied up with course assignments this whole week and I haven't had the time to go online. I've just emailed City an enquiry about my qualifications, so let's hope they come back to me with an answer soon :)

From what I understand, I am to apply at an FTO(with/without university assistance) in year two to pursue a license (in this case, supposedly a CPL/IR with a frozen ATPL) ? In other words, it is loosely similar to an internship, am I right?

I'm still a little unclear with your explanation vs the course title. The course title says 'with ATPL', however I doubt that it is possible to obtain a full ATPL within a year (is it actually possible?). So is it correct to technically regard the degree course as CPL/IR with frozen ATPL?

Thanks for your clarification by the way, it really helped me there!

[dood]

I believe by ATPL it means just the ATPL ground school. Which to start you would need an ICAO PPL. The shortest integrated courses are 14 months. Therefore if you forgo your summer holidays and time an entry into an integrated course it would fit fully in Year2. On the other hand you could go modular and do a PPL and ATPL theory. Then finish your CPL/IR after your degree or whenever you have time.

[drivez]

The course is designed that year two, if you choose to go integrated you would start the course at the end of the year (skipping the summer holidays of year 1 and 2) also year three can be deferred or distance studied, to allow for people to have gotten a job straight out of flight school (optimistic I know!).

The modules in year 1 are to give you a grounding in basic aircraft systems and aviation business, year 3 is more focused on CRM, Human Factors etc. and you have a choice of modules. Year two, you pay no fees to the university and are essentially released from the degree course to pursue flight training in year 2. If you do not intend to go integrated, and intend to go modular, then referring to your original post, definitely do your PPL.

As an added bonus, if you visit the uni, get them to take you to the very nice homebuilt, very accurte A-320 sim based on MS flight sim they have hidden in the basement, free for student use. It's great fun on the applicant day watching lads who moments earlier were talking PPL's in cessnas crashing it, whilst chaps like me (who spent a few too many days, at 12/13 years old, on flight simulator!!) bring it in for a greaser.