PLYMOUTH AIRPORT

[TCAS FAN]

Heard on news today flights being diverted to Newquay "due to technical reasons". Anyone know what they were?

[trafficnotsighted]

TCAS - some more breaking news for you Germany has just invaded Poland.:ugh:
Try keep up mate, there is another thread with all the info.

[jabird]

TNS,

The tourist board for Plymouth East (Torquay) request that you please stop mentioning the war! :=


I mentioned it once, and I think I got away with it.:uhoh:

[Phileas Fogg]

Fawlty Towers - Don't mention the war.mpg - YouTube

[jabird]

I stayed in a hotel in Torquay a couple of weeks ago, and it was the first one in ages that was run by a husband-wife team. He had no similarities with Basil, just a bad toupee - but the wife was just sitting there on the phone going yeeeeees, yeeeeeeeees, yeeeeees - exactly like Sybil.

And the waiter WAS Spanish:) Except he came from Santander:8

[Groundloop]

Except he came from Santander

He was born in a bank?!!!

[jabird]

That seems to be all anyone associates Santander with! For me it was a ferry port long before Abbey got munched, and FR will take you to SDR, but they haven't yet called it Bilbao West.

I think if MOL could re-design the Guggenheim, he'd just shove it all in a B&Q shed!

[JSCL]

Revealed: the top locations in Britain for growth - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/yourbusiness/8739575/Revealed-the-top-locations-in-Britain-for-growth.html)

Plymouth came good,maybe it needs an airport to aid that?

[GROUNDHOG]

Well I guess the only way IS up, even the football team is on a life support machine.Anyway its got an airport only its called Exeter.

[WOWBOY]

I have just seen VIABLE's plans for the airport, with the new terminal buildings and extention of the runway. Modelled on London City Airport. And they hope airlines like KLM, Air France etc will fly to Europe with Jet aircraft. This is what we have been crying out for for years, and finally we are getting somehwhere when the airport is looking doomed to close.

Really love the plans and it will be a success for sure. Ryanair or Easyjet having a sniff of it and setting up a base = success. As soon as they see a "Fly to Alicante for £29, Direct from Plymouth", the Janners will flock to the airport as will thoose who use Exeter for such "bargins". They will be on it like a rash. It is somehting plymouth lacked and thats competion and proper planes and routes.

Why oh why, does this having to come about when SHH are rubbing there hands at fooling the council into bowing to there comands. Ones which only benfit them, not the city. We needed this type of leadership on the "Pro-airport" side for many years.

But how people in the council can be for closing the airport, i dont know, they must be mad. They really are fools.

I really would love to see these plans coming into force, seeing them become reality, but i fear we never will. And in years to come Plymouth will say "oh we should never have closed the airport" Look at us now poor, run down and sidelined"

[JSCL]

WOWBOY,

Viables plans... Aren't. Maybe pull your head out of the aviation-loyalty sandpit and look at reality of those plans. It's not going to happen like that, ever.

[Aero Mad]

JSCL, I certainly wouldn't be blinkered enough to say pull your head out of the aviation-loyalty sandpit

However, we'll never see easyJet or Ryanair at Plymouth due to runway limitations - but I can certainly see a busy airport in the south-west (which isn't dominated by Flybe) working very well.

[JSCL]

Aero Mad,

Unfortunately what I see is many of the people who have a desire for Plymouth to remain open, people who have history at the airport that is, are allowing their 'loyalty' and 'desires' to blind their judgement on what is realistic.

Viable - isn't. A businessman who rarely used the airport has seen an opportunity and is doing exactly that with Viable. Collecting money, wasting it and also piping some through his own books and playing the 'glory hunter' - that's all I see there. The group will never find itself in a cash position to make their 'desires' happen, period.

I do agree, that the South West can have a busy airport that isn't Flybe dominated. But on it's current site, PLH won't be it! Sure, it could be a nice little airport with lots of prop movements or with runway extension some STOL A/C like the 146/RJ (but even most of them are near retirement!). It's a nice idea, but I'm not sure it's going to happen.

[Phileas Fogg]

WOWBOY,

Have you been smoking something?

Modelled on LCY ... LCY isn't plonked on top of a hill with a pretty much sheer drop not far off the runway threshold.

Easyjet and Ryanair setting up a base? Since when have A319's and/or B737-800's operated in/out of LCY never mind what liveries they may be painted in?

Air France and KLM? They are both the same thing so both operating would be a conflict of interests and the smallest A/C KLM currently operate is a Y80 F70, I can't really see KLM filling 160 or 240 seats in each direction daily ... after all it is KLM's business model to serve feeder airports normally, a minimum of, twice daily.

Nope, the locals won't be flocking to PLH for their "bargins".

[Aero Mad]

Phileas, I think you go somewhat too far the other way here. Viable have talked to Air France/KLM and made some sort of deal that if they could keep the airport open, they would start flights there. A non-dominated SW airport could do very well, especially one which isn't in the middle of nowhere like Newquay. The fact that it is on a hill isn't really important as geographically there is nothing stopping it from having a runway as long as LCY's.

[JSCL]

I highly doubt a deal has been made in the matter of a few weeks between an airport and an airline.

Their post on their site also goes on to mention Lufthansa and other named airlines, I highly doubt there are deals and more name dropping than anything. It's a talking shop and nothing more. The point that's being missed it, Viable have to prove it can be viable as an airport and they're doing the complete opposite right now, practically confirming its non-viability (I think it is Viable - just not with these daft proposals). Look at Aberdeen, small rway extension and improved technology cost £10m. These plans for PLH will easily run in to £25m+ - it's not going to happen.

[Phileas Fogg]

Aero Mad,

Keeping the airport open may be one thing ... trying to operate, quote, "jets" in and out of there is something quite different.

That said, back in the day, 'we' did get jet movements thru PLH ... they had "Royal Navy" printed on the side of them!

About the largest thing in/out of PLH is an ATR42/72, AF might have access to some of these but KLM do not operate any turbo-prop aircraft and a Fokker 70 certainly ain't operating thru PLH anytime soon.

And just look at how AF & KL have committed to EXT, that can take jets, KL are nowhere to be seen and FlyBe operate a thrice weekly, not thrice daily, AF codeshare to/from, of all places, ORY.

Does Southway housing estate fall under the category "geographically"? PLH might be able for a marginmal extension but that is it, marginal and still many an aircraft type will be opting, based on performance, for EXT and NQY.

[Phileas Fogg]

JSCL,

Greetings from a tropical beach. :)

Lufthansa tried a 50 seater 'pocket rocket' operation thru BRS, with all of BRS's catchment area, it lasted one season.

[JSCL]

Hey Foggy! I had wondered whether you were int'hills or ont'beach.

Lufthansa have no reason to serve PLH, they have a seasonal flight out of NQY and EXT, that'll do for them. (their own words).

[Phileas Fogg]

JSCL,

Yep, this island has a 1,270m runway, darn high temperatures, no aviation fuel, aircraft need to tanker fuel in, and the airport sees 2 x ATR72's per week and watching the ATR72 take-off the other week there weren't much runway left!

I'm really looking forward to my ATR72 flight on Friday. :)

[footster]

I have been watching this story unfold from afar and I have to agree with Plymouth Pixie, JCSL it seems like sour grapes from you . As I understand it you werent even in the frame to be considered as even a partner or a serious buyer for the airport by either Viable or SHH.

[JSCL]

Footster, I share the same view of a few councillors down in Plymouth re Viable and that it is nothing more than a talking shop with little substance.

This is an anonymous forum and that's how I remain, as like most, you should both be respective of that fact.

[WOWBOY]

As a City Plymouth is on its knees, and taking away its airport will see the city collapse. Unlike you in you sound Manchesters, London and the big cities. We down here struggle and the ity will soon collapse. It is not an aviation interest its to save the citys economy and stop money grabbing ars*s stealing money buying lying to close a public service to line there own pokects. Hope they all go to hell and that is you SHH

Be a shamed!

[MerchantVenturer]

Lufthansa tried a 50 seater 'pocket rocket' operation thru BRS, with all of BRS's catchment area, it lasted one season.

PF

The BRS-FRA route was actually operated by a Eurowings Bae 146-300 and carried just shy of 100,000 passengers in its 13 months of operation but apparently not sufficient to satisfy LH, and it was axed as the recession began to bite in the spring of 2009. Perhaps a 'pocket rocket' would have been viable - BA franchises operated the route for many years using one.

But your point is well made that if the BRS catchment could not sustain this type of operation the smaller catchment of Devon/Cornwall would be unlikey to do so.

[Phileas Fogg]

WOWBOY and others,

In case it had slipped by you the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland and the European Union are on their knees, not just the city of Plymouth!

And, whilst not defending, I can assure the audience that JSCL is far from being a teenager and I KNOW that his money is for real.

As for me, I've made no bid for PLH, as per my profile I'm in a tropical paradise of which the city iof Plymouth is not and there is a certain Plymouth City Councillor, he and I worked together at PLH back in the 80's, and he could speak for our not too long ago conversation whereas I had enthusiasm that PLH might survive but I wasn't holding my breath, i.e. there's no sour grapes from me.

I can assure the audience that PLH will be never more than a restricted length runway glorified flying club/business airfield with a sprinkling of 'puddle jumper sized aircraft' scheduled operations.

Low Cost, Ryanaqir, Easyjet, KLM, Frog Air, Lufthansa?

Who's really behaving like teenager(s) suggesting that these are EVER likely to happen?

[WOWBOY]

JSCL if you have money to buy it then why did nobody listen? Why is nobody backing you? Most people in plymouth would i vouch for that

[JSCL]

WOWBOY,

I am not going to discuss anything about PLH or my involvement here. As I have already stated, I am an anonymous individual and wish to remain as such and request you respect that.

If you have a topic to discuss - you can easily PM me.

ATB.

[footster]

JSCL you have tuned turtle. You have already discussed your involvment when you mentioned that your offer of £12 million was rejected by SHH.

PF - nobody has asked about your involvment with the airport so the issue of sour grapes with yourself doesn't wash. i haven't asked if you have put a bid in or not because i was unaware that you had if at all in the matter.

[Aero Mad]

JSCL, you say that this is an this is an anonymous forum

Yet you post PlymouthPixie's name up for all to see.

[PlymouthPixie]

Thats the exact kind of immature comment I'd have expected from JSCL, I've got no issue with my name being posted - afterall, I've got nothing to hide about Plymouth or my involvment.

I support VIABLE, so far it's the only "organisation" that has stood up to fight for what we believe in.

We are all entitled to our opinions JCSL and this is an open forum, but VIABLE is not what you think it is - why your against them, I don't know, seeing as you seem to have been working with them from their very outset.

If you want to talk this further in PM's I'd be more then happy to :mad:

As for PF - I'm amazed as to why you've outlined in such detail your position on Plymouth, I never asked you for information on a bid, neither why you should feel the need to mention about being sour grapes?

[Phileas Fogg]

Believe it or not footster & PlymouthPixie forum member(s) do not need to be asked by either of the likes of you before they post a reasonable opinion based on what is blatantly obvious ... that even if PLH were to remain open it would not be receiving the likes of KLM F70's, EZY A319's nor RYR B737-800's etc. and if JSCL or myself might cut to the chase in expressing how ridiculous such suggestion is then so be it.

[Aero Mad]

PF, publishing names is strictly forbidden and JSCL did just that. Nobody should object to the content of posts if it is subjective - but JSCL clearly crossed the line on the names.

[Phileas Fogg]

AM,

I haven't seen where he published a name and if he did break pprune's rules then fair comment.

BUT ... talking that his money is 'Fisher Price', that he is a teenager, etc, throwing such ridiculous and immature insults at an, unknown, another doesn't serve to maintain a gentlemanly level of maturity on the forum.

[footster]

Whilst I dont condem Plymouth Pixies comments naming names is a breach of the rules.It seems PF you only see what you want to see. Based around the web site and video of the Plymouth Masterplan I saw which was amateurish to say the least I too would have thrown out JCSL's bid. It seems that he calls for annonimity when it suits him. But Plymouth is a doomed airport because that lease is worth tens of millions to SHH and it didnt take an idiot to know that £12 million was never gonna buy it of them . Whilst viable have the expert airport/airline knowledge and professionalism behind them building a viable buisness plan for Plymouth it is my beleif that they too are doomed as SHH are not in a position financially just to hand over the lease.

[JSCL]

Let's return to the topic of the airport, Viable and the future for PLH and not individuals specifically involved with anything relating to them who are active around here, okay? This bouncing back and forth between he did this and he did that is not helping the topic.

But I must pick up on:
annonimity when it suits him

For months have I asked for nothing but anonymity. Thank you.

I do have to pick up on a few comments footster re SHH + Viable.

"lease is worth tens of millions to SHH"

It's worth about £13m with sale of land (to them that is) - with a total of £25-£30m total value with sale of land to housing.

viable have the expert airport/airline knowledge

I question this, having heard a contradiction from their own views on how Viable is being run.

too are doomed as SHH are not in a position financially just to hand over the lease.

Indeed, to quote a certain acting CEO of SHH - "I don't believe this company will be around in two years time to see the outcome of any sale of land. My view is we need cash and we need it now."

ATB,

[Phileas Fogg]

footster,

Perhaps I became distracted by the ridiculous, indeed stupid, suggestion of Airbus & Boeing operations thru PLH!

[JSCL]

Foggy,

A Boeing CH-47 made an emergency landing recently - that's as good as it'll probably get from Boeing/Airbus.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Folks this thread has run off the rails in the past few days and I have better things to do than to spend time trying to stop the petty bickering going on here.

I have already made a ban and some deletions and I only have patience for those who seem to know how to behave rather than those who have a petulant streak running through them. They know who they are.

Get the thread back on topic or it gets closed. Thank you.

PPP

[PPRuNe Pop]

Phileas Fogg. Sorry to delete your post but is way too large. We have a PPRuNe size for pics of no more than 850x850 - without added space below the picture. Please post again with the sizes as above. Thanks.

[trafficnotsighted]

Nice new tribute on Youtube showing the history of Plymouth airport. Some excellent pictures of the aircraft that have operated out of plymouth over the years and the people who have worked there. Nice job guys brings back some great memories.:ok:
Search Youtube " Plymouth Airport 1925 - 2011"

[trafficnotsighted]

I see that British International helicopters relocated the dauphins to Newquay today after 16 years at being at plymouth.

[oldpax]

Without an airport Plymouth will just be a large town in the South West of England with poor road and rail connections.Business,s will go down hill and if the Navy is cut further then there goes the dockyard and lots of unemployment .Just what the government does not need ,more people on benefits!!I dont say that will be because there is no airport but it will be a contributory factor.I was in Plymouth visiting in November,five hours by coach!!Trains?Last year I stood all the way from Reading to Plymouthand I am a pensioner.No not one teen offerd me thier space in the between coachs!!Thats why I would like the Airport to stay open.

[AirportsEd]

I hear that Thursday 22nd looks likely to be the last flying day as Friday 23rd is for emergencies only.
Good luck to those looking for work.

[PlymouthPixie]

Were did you hear that?

[AirportsEd]

At the airport.

[Poltergeist]

I fear that if the government bill for development goes through, many more airfields will go the same way as sale of the land for building is a short term gain for owners. sad to see Plymouth close but what is happening there is a warning about the bigger picture. Sadly, call me Dave and co are not listening as it does not really affect their mates in the city. Truth is, although the DfT would argue to the contrary, there is no strategy for air transport outside of the main international airports. :sad:

[AirportsEd]

As today is the last day of normal flight ops at PLH, have the few remaining based aircraft already positioned out?
Will someone down there let us know what the last movements were?
Good luck to all at PLH.

[PlymouthPixie]

Plymouth hasn't closed yet - it is still totally open to traffic until 1700 tomorrow morning, only 2 based aircraft remain, 1 out tomorrow and the other on the back of a lorry.

[commit aviation]

1700 tomorrow morning?????
What time zone is PLH in these days?!?!? :confused:

[Phileas Fogg]

(What time zone is PLH in these days?!?!?)

The 1980's :)

[PlymouthPixie]

Evening sorry! :mad:

[Skypartners]

Smashing little airport it was. Smashing people. Fraid the regional airport and airline business is just not worth anyone's risk now. I'll be paying off my debts until I die!

Bon chance everyone

[MerchantVenturer]

Vision for a new £30million airport in Plymouth is unveiled | This is Plymouth (http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Vision-new-30million-airport-Plymouth-unveiled/story-14218392-detail/story.html)

A 'world class international gateway airport' on the site if these people get their way.

[JSCL]

The incinerator must already be polluting the air! Should be retitled:

'Small business owner with no sense of reality wants council to turn him in to a millionaire airport owner and operator.'

[Pilgrimpete]

A very sad day indeed ,good luck to everyone.SHH clearly deliberately ran the airport down prior to re-developing it as housing-classic property developer tatics.My old SATCO will be turning in his grave, he always said the council were never supportative of the airport and told noise complainers that when the airport is no longer, the council will put a crematorium on the runway!. I suggest the incinerator and a caravan site for travellers also would fit nicely there,you will then generate huge support for PLH.
Resurgum.

[Phileas Fogg]

So .....

Viable envisages a facility that could eventually handle up to a million passengers a year.

That, along with using the current car park, would free space to create a commercial hub, which could be turned into a mixed-use scheme containing elements such as a conference centre, shops, offices, a hotel and possibly even a cinema, with short-stay car parking, and bring in about £7million.

Where the bl00dy hell are these million passengers per year going to park their cars?

Just asking. :)

[PlymouthPixie]

In an underground car park beneath the site, combined with the adjacent park and ride facility.

[Phileas Fogg]

PlymouthPixie,

With all due respect you're full of sh1t and this proposal is full of flaws from the outset, why sell off the car parking space to then spend mega bucks creating, supposed, underground parking?

Alas, in a previous life, I've worked at PLH, I know the geography, I know the limited space available, and some clown believes he can create a 30 million pound, one million passengers per annum, airport that doesn't actually have a car park of any significance?

Way too funny :)

[JSCL]

Phileas, can run a park n ride from a major car park, like the one at Exeter airport. ;)

[footster]

Phileas

You are really now getting bang out of order and it seems to be personal and stacks of Jealousy. I have heard and read about this proposal and you seemed to be trying to shoot the messanger.As understand it it is underground car parks that is being proposed and the fill being used to extend the runway..Whether this plan is a goer or not (and I think its not due to SHH),with other things that are going on down this end of country as well at least it has made people of Plymouth wake up and smell the coffee and realise they are getting a bum deal from their council.

[Sir George Cayley]

End of.


Q) EGTT/QFALC/IV/NBO/A/000/999/5025N00406W005
B) FROM: 11/12/23 17:00C) TO: PERM
E) AD CLOSED.
AD 2-EGHD-1-1 REFERS.

Sad day :{:{:{:{

SGC

[PPRuNe Pop]

TEN posts deleted. Why? Because you cannot hold a conversation lately without making abusive, personal and full of spat posts.

I have the solution. Do it by letter or phone but you are not doing it here.

Do have a nice Christmas but please try to come back with some sense and regard for what PPRuNe is for.

Please do take this as a warning for some banning.

PPP

[Sir George Cayley]

Oooo! I love it when you're tough :)

SGC

[PlymSpotter]

Thank you and Merry Christmas to you to PPP :)

[RB311]

Well according to todays telegraph, Plymouth is due to quadruple its number of flights by 2050...

[adfly]

Well as it is currently 4 x 0 = 0!

[AirportsEd]

Does anyone know if the last few staff have managed to find jobs elsewhere yet?