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PAXboy
31st Aug 2011, 10:36
Here is another bit of light relief... I was very amused to read this. As if anyone thinks that modern pax will follow such a sequence? The comments by readers that follow it, pose all the practical reasons why this will never work.

BBC News - Tests show fastest way to board passenger planes (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14717695)

Since pax do not listen to and follow the current boarding sequence and that most staff do not prevent pax boarding out of sequence - this is just good for a laugh. As one reader said, "Classic case of a solution in search of a problem."

This can be in JB faster than the nude travelling troll. :p

The SSK
31st Aug 2011, 11:04
I once saw about 150 squaddies board an RAF VC10 at Prestwick in around three minutes. Whichever way they were doing it, that's the best way.

Shack37
31st Aug 2011, 11:16
I suspect the number of announcements (if they can hear them) needed just to call the pax in boarding order would take more time than the standard mad rush. And when the first 15 pax called to board haven't reached the gate yet?

Businesstraveller
31st Aug 2011, 11:49
I find the most efficient way for me to board is to book F class and wait to be escorted from the lounge at the last minute - ho, ho ho.

Glonass
31st Aug 2011, 13:37
Astrophysicist finds fastest method of plane boarding

BBC News - Tests show fastest way to board passenger planes (http://bbc.in/nqWShr)
Tests show fastest way to board passenger planes By Jason Palmer Science and technology reporter, BBC News
The current most common boarding method clogs the aisles and rows
The most common way of boarding passenger planes is among the least efficient, tests have shown.
The best method has been the subject of study for years but now various approaches have been put to the test.
Boarding those in window seats first followed by middle and aisle seats results in a 40% gain in efficiency.
However, an approach called the Steffen method (http://arxiv.org/abs/1108.5211), alternating rows in the window-middle-aisle strategy, nearly doubles boarding speed.
The approach is named after Jason Steffen, an astrophysicist at Fermi National Laboratory in Illinois, US. Dr Steffen first considered the thorny problem of plane boarding in 2008, when he found himself in a long boarding queue.
He carried out a number of computer simulations to determine a better method than the typical "rear of the plane forwards" approach, publishing the results in the Journal of Air Transport Management (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0969699708000239).
Several authors had already proposed an order in which those seated in window seats boarded first, followed by middle seats and then aisle seats - dubbed the Wilma method. But Dr Steffen's best results suggested a variant of this.
He suggested boarding in alternate rows, window seats first, progressing from the rear forward: seats 12A, for example, followed by 10A, 8A and so on, then returning for 9A, 7A, 5A and so on, and then filling the middle and aisle seats in the same way.
The approach avoids a situation in which passengers are struggling to use the same physical space at the same time.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/55049000/gif/_55049708_load_airplane_464.gif
Only now, though, has the idea been put to the test. Jon Hotchkiss, a television producer making a show called This v That, began to consider the same problem of boarding efficiency and came across Dr Steffen's work.
Mr Hotchkiss contacted Dr Steffen, offering to test the idea using a mock-up of a 757 aeroplane in Hollywood and 72 luggage-toting volunteers.
The pair tested five different scenarios: "block" boarding in groups of rows from back to front, one by one from back to front, the "Wilma method", the Steffen method, and completely random boarding.
In all cases, parent-child pairs were permitted to board first - reflecting the fact that regardless of the efficiency of any boarding method, families will likely want to stay together.
The block approach fared worst, with the strict back-to-front approach not much better.
Interestingly, a completely random boarding - as practised by several low-cost airlines that have unallocated seating - fared much better, presumably because it randomly avoids space conflicts.

(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14717695?print=true#story_continues_2) Boarding methods put to test



"Block" boarding - 6:54
Back-to-front - 6:11
Random - 4:44
Wilma method - 4:13
Steffen method - 3:36


But the Wilma method and the Steffen method were clear winners; while the block approach required nearly seven minutes to seat the passengers, the Steffen method took just over half that time.
Dr Steffen said that broadly, the results aligned with the predictions he made in 2008.
"As far as the actual amount of time it took to fill the plane, the times didn't agree - because I didn't know how long it took people to put their luggage away and walk down the aisle," he told BBC News.
"The basic conclusions I drew were realised; the method I proposed did the best, and the other ones landed where I would've predicted."
Dr Steffen will now get back to his usual work, putting together plans to find planets around other stars using the Kepler space telescope. But he hopes that commercial airlines will take an interest in his approach - especially given that he estimates it could save them millions.
"I haven't received a phone call yet, but the day is young, so maybe that will change," he said.

Shack37
31st Aug 2011, 13:41
I find the most efficient way for me to board is to book F class and wait to be escorted from the lounge at the last minute - ho, ho ho.


Is that F class window or aisle, rows 1,3,5 or 2,4,6 etc? he, he, he.:rolleyes:

barit1
31st Aug 2011, 14:13
These idealized simulations seem to overlook the very real constraint of passenger realities: Small children accompanying their parents, and other situations where one passenger is dependent (i.e. the non-SLF) on another.

Other than that, :ok:

westhawk
31st Aug 2011, 14:14
Airlines have tried just about every boarding scheme imaginable. The one theory applied which seems to work in practice is the SWA "chaos theory" cattle car approach. No matter what scheme is applied, most airline boarding problems seem traceable to the almost universally thoughtless and inconsiderate brain dead airline passenger! Present company excluded of course... :)

Otto Throttle
31st Aug 2011, 14:53
Maybe if you were boarding a plane full of astrophysicists.

However, given most passengers leave their brains in the boot of their cars upon arrival at the airport, it'll never happen. You're stuck with the idiot sitting in 4A deciding that actually he'd much prefer 15C, passengers coming forward for boarding who have not yet been called and then the doddery old fart with the massive carry-on luggage who takes 10 minutes to pack their belongings away.

And that's before you contend with the average handling agent employee delegated the task of ensuring this all happens.

:ugh:

single chime
31st Aug 2011, 15:14
Yet you board a widebody in 20 min in Japan! And they fold their blnkets at the end of the flight. Gotta love them...

ap08
31st Aug 2011, 15:20
thoughtless and inconsiderate brain dead airline passenger
You're stuck with the idiot sitting in 4A deciding that actually he'd much prefer 15C, passengers coming forward for boarding who have not yet been called and then the doddery old fart with the massive carry-on luggage who takes 10 minutes to pack their belongings away.
So much hatred, for no reason at all. Random method is clearly the best. The time gain over the astrophysicists method is marginal, and there is no need to arrange the boarding in any way, make people queue in a predefined order etc. Freedom is the way to go.

Herod
31st Aug 2011, 15:26
Config the aircraft as a freighter and palletise the pax. That way, they can all be seated even before the plane is on the blocks. Don't laugh, it may be MO'L's next idea. ;)

westhawk
31st Aug 2011, 15:40
So much hatred, for no reason at all.Not hatred. Let's save that word for more important things than inconvenience and frustrations associated with boarding an airliner. Maybe contempt? Naw, even that's only in extreme cases. Probably just plain old frustration with unpleasant experiences. Yeah.

And anyway, I expressly excepted present company and used a smiley. Lighten up Francis! :)

lederhosen
31st Aug 2011, 15:43
Free seating seems to encourage people to grab a seat and sit down. Perhaps people also subconsciously block the aisles less because they know others are in a hurry to find a good seat or those blocked are motivated to push past. Bus boarding is almost always quicker too, particularly when it is raining. My vote is for random boarding. One thing I do not understand is why he tested it with 72 passengers. Maybe 150 or 189 would be the same, but I am not sure if the dynamics are identical.

Forum old Bart
31st Aug 2011, 15:44
I have often wondered, as SLF, why they don't just ask us to form a queue with rearmost Pax first and fronters last. It could be easily policed at the gate boarding card scan by just asking for Pax by the next seat number.
I'm sure Pax would get the idea quickly if it became routine.:cool:
Some boarding even seems the other way round....

Hipennine
31st Aug 2011, 15:58
Looking at the video, is it just coincidence that the pax seem to be arriving from back to front in each window/middle/aisle group ?

And I agree with Single Chime that in Japan they manage to load full widebodies in 20 minutes, with people strolling on whenever they want in that 20 minute opening, so why not elsewhere ?

arearadar
31st Aug 2011, 16:12
In my view, the best way of un-loading people is of far greater importance. For example in an incident involving the risk of fire.

Mike-Bracknell
31st Aug 2011, 16:33
The obvious train of thought goes that if you fix the boarding efficiencies, they'll fix the unloading efficiencies as a by-product or shortly afterwards.

Besides, in case of fire = no luggage - that's the greatest issue to face. Maybe centrally lockable overhead cabinets in case of fire?

Sunnyjohn
31st Aug 2011, 16:47
The easiest, quickest and most efficient method of boarding based on my own experience as a frequent flyer is simply to do away with hand luggage and allow only small handbags or shoulder bags that do not have to be stowed aloft. I find that families with children seat quickly but the hold up is with people in the aisle trying to lift their luggage into the overhead lockers.

flying lid
31st Aug 2011, 17:01
Manchester - Dubai a few weeks ago, Emirates.

Monitor shows green - Go to gate. Walk to gate, (family of five) and board straight away. A few at a time, as they come, over 30-40 mins. Worked great. NO queues, waiting, congestion etc.

The problem is cooping up 250 or more people alongside the plane in the "gate holding area" then expecting them to board sensibly and swiftly, by numbers, zones etc. Then they're all farting about stashing luggage, finding seats etc.

Of course, onward sector (DBX to BKK) and return boardings were the usual chaos.

Checkboard
31st Aug 2011, 17:02
Don't show a video of the plane - show a video of the boarding gate - and the three hours it would take to organise odd-number window seats, followed by odd-number middle seats etc etc.

The fastest practical method is free seating - walk on, and sit once your progress is blocked - which is why easyJet et. al. use that method.

esa-aardvark
31st Aug 2011, 18:18
Last year in Fankfurt (long haul), business class boarding is called, so everyone gets up at once and attempts to board. Part way through the resulting scrum a voice calls 'look out business class coming through' to which my wife replies 'we are all business class here'. Reply, I'm sorry I don't speak English.
Of course he boarded before us, but was not seen in the business class section. I think there is no decent way of boarding especially if not all speak the same language.

Ancient Observer
31st Aug 2011, 18:29
Why on this lovely Earth does Aviation create such problems for itself?

Brits queue, and love to queue. They can queue wherever they are in the world.

It is only the morons who work in Aviation who turn plane entry in to a brain-dead activity.


If Aviation could stir itself from its civil service mentality, it would find out how to do it.

Not that anyone in Aviation listens to other sectors. Never have and never will.

Rwy in Sight
31st Aug 2011, 19:03
The time saved by speeding up the time SLF are taking to sit down in the plane would be more than offset by the time either the ground crew wastes on explaining the system to the SLF or arguing with them about where they are allowed to board.


Rwy in Sight

westhawk
31st Aug 2011, 19:12
It is only the morons who work in Aviation who turn plane entry in to a brain-dead activity.

Another moron heard from. :confused: Takes one to know one! :) (irony not lost)

It's the people from outside aviation who inspired this dumb stuff to begin with. Bean counting salesman from every other industry became involved in aviation business management and decided that unrealistically tight scheduling made economic sense. Maybe in their perfect world!

Ships, trains and buses have their problems too, but nobody gives a rat's behind!.

L'aviateur
31st Aug 2011, 20:01
Reminds of a rather unusual flight a few weeks ago. Flying Manchester - Abu Dhabi, and was seated in the Aisle seat and about mid way through boarding.
Lady next to me (who spoke no English, despite holding a British Passport), suddenly stood up and walked into my legs and pushed against them and pointed to her friends further forward. I had no where to go as people were in the aisle still boarding, eventually let her out and she barged her way forward against the flow, then came and sat back down after blocking the boarding process and chatting. About 3 or 4 minutes later did exactly the same thing, and then eventually for a third time. At this point I decided that this was going to be an unlucky flight. Thankfully however a vacant seat appeared near her friends and she moved over there. What planet was she on? I've no idea, but I'm too polite to start arguing with her, just complain anonymous on a forum later in true British style.

Mr Optimistic
31st Aug 2011, 21:32
Well having found that perhaps he can now find a proper job....astrophysicists make it up as they go along, relying on the fact we can't actually get out there and show them they are wrong.........

notlangley
1st Sep 2011, 00:00
The fastest way of loading an aircraft can only be achieved if without exception every passenger is an astrophysicist. - Some non-astrophysicists turn the aircraft so that its tail sits on the ground and the nose points up towards the stars.

boguing
1st Sep 2011, 01:21
Aktcherly, that could work.

Seats and overhead lockers all slide out as a unit.

Lateral swing-nose ac opposite arrivals lounge, pull pallets out.

Raise/lower the ac to departures. Or raise/lower arrivals/departures.

Get us into the dep lounge in the comfy chairs all arranged as per the flight, with lockers above. Loads of time to get 'em all sitting. Offer a trolley service akin to in flight.

We're all in our seats with baggage stowed.

Lounges can now be smaller.

What's not to like?

Mad (Flt) Scientist
1st Sep 2011, 02:24
Boarding by zones turns into a shambles because they rarely if ever actually board the blocks.

First they'll call for the elderly and kids (good idea, let's make sure the people who are hardest to board, and thus most likely to block the aisle, go first).

At the same time its a frequent flier free for all, so there's random people all over the plane quite quickly.

Next they'll call a block of rows. But LONG before that block has completed, they'll call the next block. Any moderately frequent flyers knows this, so if you're going to be in the second block, might as well join the line almost as soon as it forms, since they'll be boarding your block before they get to you. And even if by some miracle you get there 'too soon', I've never seen anyone turned away.

Meanwhile, all the people who are in the not-yet-called blocks are either joining the line anyway, either because (a) they aren't listening/thinking or (b) don't feel like waiting, or they are milling around right at the gate, almost-but-not-quite in the line, so that when their block is called they can join the rugby scrum at the desk.

Any notional efficiency due to boarding by blocks is a fantasy.

if you wanted to make a planned boarding work, you'd need a whole bunch of those fabric barrier thingies they have at security, set at every gate, to keep the line in control, plus a bunch of stroppy gate agents prepared to throw people out of the line for being in the wrong place.

Personally, I don't see why anyone is in a hurry to sit in a cramped seat for an extra 15-20 minutes when there's a (relatively) comfortable seat beside the gate, possible in proximity to coffee or even beer, and there's no chance of missing the plane (and if somehow you're the last one sat there they will be calling you by name because your bags are loaded anyway)

Espada III
1st Sep 2011, 08:10
My experience of Jet2 travel is that it is the worst boarding experience ging. The reasons are : -

Too many people bring too much hand luggage - because it costs £40 for an item of hold luggage

People are therefore worried about being separated from said hand luggage on the flight so try to board quickly so they can sit directly beneath their hand luggage

Jet2 have an infeasibly narrow boarding slot, so too many people trying to board a single aisle plane in too short a time. As a family of five, we need to bring food, entertainment, change of clothes (for mucky children) etc on board whereas on a full service airline we only need clothes and maybe an I-pod.

So if Jet2 and others want better boarding, provide a better service.....

Rwy in Sight
1st Sep 2011, 09:44
Mad (Flt) Scientist,

There are good reasons to board a flight early. More room to store your bags, free drinks on some airlines, opportunity for a small talk with the crew...

We do agree however that rididly enforcing the boarding sequence can be time-consuming and counter proactive.


Rwy in Sight

L'aviateur
1st Sep 2011, 16:53
Amongst some of my journeys, I often end up going between Europe/US and South East Asia a few times a month, and when travelling with just hand baggage in economy have good reason to shove myway to the front of the queue. Otherwise, when you board you suddenly find no overhead baggage space, and your bag being tagged and taken away, probably never to be seen again...

Peter47
3rd Sep 2011, 20:59
I'm always struck by how long it takes to board an airliner. I quite liked the Wilma method (window seats first finishing with the aisle, which used to be used by Lufthansa. I think that they may have dropped it. Obviously you would have to allow a group of passengers travelling together to board at the same time.

Given the cost of an aircraft on the ground I've often wondered if anything has costed the effectiveness of installing two jetties for narrow bodied aircraft. Obviously there would be a capital cost but I reckon that you might be able to reduce a turnaround for an A320 by ten minutes. There have been many exercises looking at the cost of a minutes delay which could be applied. Obviously many factors to consider - can you achieve an extra sector per day, are crew paid by block or duty hours, can you reduce the number of gates required at the terminal, etc.

Obviously Locos EasyJet & Ryanair do use both exits (fine if its dry).

I was on a Delta flight this April. I thought I would get on early as I was sitting in the rear but no - priority was given to frequent flyers who all had "wheelies". The bins quickly filled up. Chaos. A lot of bags had to be checked in at the gate (but I think that avoided the $25 fee for checking a bag). It lead to a late push back despite starting boarding on time. An example of how not to do it.

boguing
3rd Sep 2011, 21:13
As it stands, and without the slide-in module idea, I'm firmly in the last on last off brigade. I've waited stupid hours to check-in, even more to get baggage, so why rush? Tis only a few minutes.

But I'm not going tell to anybody why boarding last works surprisingly well.

No I'm not.

At all.

Try it for yourselves a few times.

Last off means that I don't have to rush to join the scrum for pole position at the carousel, If it's just a few cases trundling their lonely paths it increases the chances of my remembering what mine looks like.

Rwy in Sight
4th Sep 2011, 07:51
We, as esteemed members of the PPRuNe, just may overestimate the capacity of the capacity of the average SLF to understand if they have a window, aisle or center seat.

Next time you fly just check when they arrive at row 20 how fast they figure which letter correspond to which seat.

Rwy in Sight

Exascot
4th Sep 2011, 08:41
We had a niffty system for fast loading the wounded in Saudi during the Persian Gulf War. We used the cargo terminal and they all arrived on a conveyor belt on pallets. Maybe this is the solution. Sort out the pax in the order required and strap them all down on pallets on a conveyor belt at the gate. When ready to board just throw the switch - easy :ok:

Shack37
4th Sep 2011, 10:48
Sort out the pax in the order required and strap them all down on pallets on a conveyor belt at the gate. When ready to board just throw the switch - easy http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif



With boarding pass rubber stamped on forehead:E

PAXboy
4th Sep 2011, 13:34
Peter47I've often wondered if anything has costed the effectiveness of installing two jetties for narrow bodied aircraft. Obviously there would be a capital cost but I reckon that you might be able to reduce a turnaround for an A320 by ten minutes.
I agree but never going to happen.

The 747 has been in service since 1970 and in 99% (guess) of airports, they are boarded one pax at a time.

Where they have two jetties, one is reserved for F+C and then 250+/- of PE/Y are boarded one-by-one. I have seen photos of the overwing boarding jetties now set for the A380 but not in practice.

The airline will only build the jetties if the carrier will take the cost. Therefore, it's not going to happen. For the carrier, it is cheaper to get us there a bit earlier and use a system they know, than to pay for extra jetties and increase prices.

Exascot
4th Sep 2011, 14:22
With boarding pass rubber stamped on forehead

No they will be face down :E:E:E

Sunnyjohn
4th Sep 2011, 18:32
This works well if you're a solo passenger. Most FF's (fearful flyers) fill the aisle seats up first so there's almost always an empty window seat near the front. Failing that, couples take the aisle and centre seat, again leaving the window seat free on the assumption that there aren't people like me who will happily scramble over them. It's never failed to work for me.

RevMan2
4th Sep 2011, 18:59
But how’s it going to work in the real world, where EVERYONE gets up when the boarding agent asks passengers in the gate lounge to remain seated while he/she makes an announcement, where EVERYONE is a parent with a small child, where EVERYONE is mobility-challenged and needs more time to board, where EVERYONE is in First or Business Class or has a Gold Card and where EVERYONE is seated in rows 45 to 55?

Plus the usual suspects who are asleep/on the phone/on the loo/talking to their girlfriend/still buying duty-free/can’t find their boarding card/confuse the flight number with their seat number/want to fly to Manchester but are queuing up for the Mallorca flight?

Rest here On exactly which planet…. | You Must Be From Away (http://bit.ly/pnyyw8)

Peter47
5th Sep 2011, 09:21
PAXboy you are of course quite right about airlines boarding 747s one by one - I suspect that with long haul boarding time is less of an issue, but its certainly annoying alighting from the rear of a 747.

I believe that when the Pan Am Worldport at JFK opened each 747 gate had three jetties, but one was later removed. (You can see where they have removed & bricked over if you visit the soon to be closed JFK T3). I have seen pictures of three jetties at other airports. Can anyone with a long memory recall if 747s were actually boarded using three gates, if so when did it stop and what where the reasons? Also, were the rear jetties at Schiphol ever used? I suspect that in those days things were a lot more manual and that it may have been difficult to know if everyone had boarded. Then again, in the days before baggage reconciation did that matter?

PAXboy
5th Sep 2011, 13:54
I've never seen three jetties and the overwing jetties are very serious bits of construction that must cost considerably more than the regular ones.

Since they don't want pax to board on the right (understandable) or across the tarmac (equally) then it's more more money or more time. As far as I can see, the 380 is getting boarded one-by one on two levels, so no actual improvement of time.

Long haul does have slightly easier timescales but the stupidity of the system leaves me amazed every time. For short haul, for modern, western pax, the situation is now completely beyond any reasonable control. You can only offer token guidance and let the pax get on with it, if you try to direct them for their own good - it is well proven that they will ignore you and then blame you. Which is why gate agents do their best to let everyone through and CC do their best to keep to minimum standards.

Oh, and the situation is not going to improve!

DancingOnTheCeiling
5th Sep 2011, 14:59
personally, if I have allocated seat then I wait until most everyone else has loaded and then go to my seat. The bins being full doesn't matter as my bag is small enough to go under the seat, problem solved (for me ;))

LondonPax
5th Sep 2011, 17:42
Personally, I don't see why anyone is in a hurry to sit in a cramped seat for an extra 15-20 minutes when there's a (relatively) comfortable seat beside the gate, possible in proximity to coffee or even beer, and there's no chance of missing the plane (and if somehow you're the last one sat there they will be calling you by name because your bags are loaded anyway)


As a couple of others have hinted since, it has to do with hand baggage. I always try to board as early as possible since the overhead bins fill up very quickly, especially now that so many people are reluctant to check bagagge in if they can help it. Amazing how many people with a seat down the back will lob their bag into one of the overheads down the front as they go past.

Last off means that I don't have to rush to join the scrum for pole position at the carousel, If it's just a few cases trundling their lonely paths it increases the chances of my remembering what mine looks like.

Last off vastly increases your chances of a massive long queue at passport control. Of course, you may get that anyway (at JFK, behind a flight on which all passengers need a file full of documents to prove their eligibility to enter the country) but at least you're not behind hundreds of your fellow passengers.

(My first post here. Hello :ok:.)

PAXboy
5th Sep 2011, 18:57
Welcome aboard LondonPax!Amazing how many people with a seat down the back will lob their bag into one of the overheads down the front as they go past.If you are sure that you don't need anything in it during the flight - it is a brilliant idea for the selfish ones. They know the bins at that point will be empty and, by the time they come past to retrieve their bag on the way off, the pax who landed up sitting there (and having to find somewhere else for their bags) will have already left the a/c. :suspect:

As we have all said before:


All the carriers allowed this to happen
No one made any long term attempt to enforce their own regulations - because pax threatened to not book again
Established practice over the last 25 years, ensures nothing will change