Tips on flying in the USA?

[Lew747]

Hey :)

I'm heading out to Phoenix, AZ in approx 1 months time for some hour building with Chandler Air Service.

I am a relatively novice PPL with only some 90 Hours and the actual thought of flying across the state in a foreign country i'm finding quite daunting!

Would anyone like to share some helpful hints/tips they found when flying in America, preferably around the area I am? I've been told by many it's a lot simpler than flying VFR in the UK but I'm taking everything I hear with a pinch of salt.

The aim is to build up hours towards my CPL hence I do not really want to blow holes in the sky and I don't really want to let my flying skills deteriorate or some bad habits to seep in. I'm aiming to achieve 50 hours over 2.5 weeks

Cheers,

Lewis :ok:

[Lew747]

Thanks SoCal.

Already got my '11 copy of FAR/AIM. Something nice and chunky to sink my teeth into!

Yes I have my letter of authenticity and my appointment booked with Scottsdale FSDO 2 days after I arrive and have completed the BFR and Mountain Checkouts required by the flight school.

[Pilot DAR]

You'll find the airspace around Phoenix, and Tucson quite busy. If you are lost, tell ATC right away!

The mountains around there are significant. If you're going out toward them, tell someone where to look for you, if you have to go down. There are not so many suitable forced landing areas in there.

If you fly into Tucson, pay attention to the displaced thresholds, they're displayed because of arrester cables for the jet fighters, and you don't want to get hung up in one! Tucson is home to the Pima air museum, very well worth a break in your flying to visit. If you're going south of there (or away from cities in general), it's very barren country, go prepared. Well, south, you could blunder into Mexico - don't. The border between Arizona, and Mexico is not visible on the ground. Make sure that ATC have you on radar, so there are no surprises. The Americans take their border security very seriously, and there is little give, just because you're flying.

Fly the altitude appropriate to your heading.

Allow for high density altitudes on takeoff and landing.

If you want to see lots of expensive jets, fly into Scottsdale.

Be ready for smog, and sand or dust storms, the visibility can come way down on a clear day.

Have fun....

[StillStanding]

Be sure to fit in a couple of hours in a Super Cub and try some dirt strip landings - I had great fun with these last visit!

[humhaw]

Listen to LiveATC: Listen to Live ATC (Air Traffic Control) Communications | LiveATC.net (http://www.liveatc.net/)
Buy some charts and understand FAA airspace (or look at them on here: SkyVector: Flight Planning / Aeronautical Charts (http://skyvector.com/)
Study the airports, airport diagrams etc AirNav: Airport Information (http://www.airnav.com/airports/)
Study the weather resources: ADDS - TAFs (http://aviationweather.gov/adds/tafs/)
And yes read the 2011 FAR/AIM
Buy some DVDs/Apps/Courses from Kings Schools: Learn to Fly! | King Schools (http://www.kingschools.com/)

Do all that beforehand and you will be well prepared.

Fly the plane, good luck and enjoy!

[bubo]

listen to SsquawkVFR.com (http://www.squawkvfr.com/) - comming just from Phoenix area.
to start with - Sedona north of Phoenix is a good destination - no controlled airspace all the way once you get out of Phoenix - some pics here (http://www.orlita.net/foto/fotky-letecke-a-letadel/?album=3&gallery=27). Just make sure you understand density altitude concept..

[stiknruda]

If you do go to Scottsdale, contact Budd Davisson and buy a couple of hours with him in N8PB. Budd Davisson's Airbum.com (http://www.airbum.com)

I guarantee you'll learn a lot.

These days, Marlene his wife runs a pretty chic B&B at their house. I stayed at a nice motel/sports complex near the airfield when I went 11 years ago.

[A and C]

Don't expect the weather to always be good.

Don't expect the feds to be as understanding of minor mistakes at the CAA.

Don't order anything in large.

The beer is sh#%t.

The locals are usually very hospitable ( unless you give an honest opinion on the beer quality)

Enjoy it will be good fun but don't look at the price until you get back, in the cold light of day flying in the USA is not as cheap as you think.

Leave the pole dancing to the girls, if you have had enough beer to think you can do it you have had too much to try !

[proudprivate]

in the cold light of day flying in the USA is not as cheap as you think

we obviously cannot read Lew747's mind, but at least the gas costs $5.50/gallon as opposed to $15.50/gallon...
and renting a decent IFR capable single starts at $100 wet
and unless you fly into something like O'Hare, the landings are usually free

For beer guidance (which doesn't mix very well with flying 50 hours in 2.5 weeks I dare say - but then neither does pole dancing) have a look here (http://belgianstyle.com/mmguide/lookup/locator.html) for proper stuff in the US.


Arizona locals are not too hospitable

+1 on that from me.
but "More likely to shoot you then question your legal status..." is way down their list. Their first question is "Do you have a credit card ?"

TIP LIST :
Beware of special flight rules areas (NP's like Grand Canyon);
Beware of weather you have never seen before (1-800-WX BRIEF with the order of the briefing structure on your lap)
Always file flight plans for cross countries
Tip the line workers (and the pole dansers) at the FBO's where you land
Beware of some serious magnetic variations


Making British Food Palatable for 200 Years


If you suspect a violation of the "truth in advertising"-act, you can always file a complaint with the FTC


:p

[IO540]

Chandler Air Service .... remember it well (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/faa-pplir/index.html) :)

It gets quite bumpy in the thermals; I would recommend going there during UK wintertime (like I did).

As regards food, I recommend you bring your own sandwiches from home :) Americans are rarely into healthy eating, and Arizona is further away from that idea than most places I've been to...

[Lew747]

Thank you all for your input so far! Got lots for me to study between now and Sept.

I chose Chandler really not because it is the cheapest but i've heard nothing but good reviews from people who have used them. That said...it still works out around £65 ph (incl. tax) for a C172 compared to my current clubs eyewatering rates of £180 ph. 50 hours over my 2.5 weeks could prove to be optimistic given the current temperate like SoCal said. I can imagine i'll be sweating my neck off at 3000ft let alone on the ground! I shall take it as it comes and stick within my limits. If i do enjoy it enough then I will definately be returning.

I suppose this is a question I should ask the flight school now but might as well whilst i'm here... Do you pay for fuel at other airfields using your own card/cash and the flight school reimburse you or do they give you some sort of fuel card? I assume you are responsible for refuelling the aircraft yourself in most cases?

[oscarisapc]

don't forget to get proper medical insurance cover. Illness, car accident etc. Any uninsured treatment in the USA will soon negate any savings and more that you are intending to make. Check the policy carefully as most standard health policies exclude flying except as a passenger on scheduled flights. That said... set it all up carefully and then have fun!

[fernytickles]

If you have time, check out the local EAA Chapter websites.. Maybe go along to one of their meetings?

EAA 538 Phoenix, AZ Home - Chapter 538 (http://538.eaachapter.org)
UL 55 Phoenix, AZ Home - Ultralight Chapter 55 (http://UL55.eaachapter.org)
WAR 20 Phoenix, AZ Home - Warbird Squadron 20 (http://WB20.eaachapter.org)

Consider doing the first day or two getting familiar, then go "flyabout"? This is a huge country, the scenery in the SW is stunning - Sedona, Santa Fe, Albequerque, the meteor crater near Winslow, to name but a few.

Another website you may find helpful is fltplan.com

And if you have an iPhone or an iPad, Foreflight is a great app.

[mad_jock]

if you smoke try and not use the word "fag"

CAuses all sorts of mayhem when you announce your going outside for a fag then departing.

[Julian]

If you are taking your own kit (headset, GPS, radio, etc) put it in your hand luggage as you dont want it going missing on the way over and ruining your trip!

J.

[WHBM]

Get an instructor to take you through the quite different approach to airspace, flight plans, etc.

ATC speech takes getting used to, quite why they have to talk in such a shotgun manner is beyond many of us. You will also find controllers who are pleasant and helpful, and some who are the absolute opposite. It doesn't depend on workload.

Sharing major airports and airspace with large commercial and military jets can be a surprise.

Circuits (patterns) can be far tighter than what you are used to.

Magnetic deviation in the western US is very substantial, comparing compass with chart. There are also some items (I forget which - weather ?) that give times in GMT, which is no problem in the UK but requires quick thinking over there.

The practiced forced landing into convenient nice green fields of the UK doesn't extend across much of the US where the terrain is almost entirely hostile. Country roads may seem to offer an alternative but check for telephone poles alongside. You may be reduced to a lake as a final option.

[david viewing]

Negative vibes on here about Arizona and the FAA which I cannot agree with. I've landed at most airports in Az (except PHX) and found the reception always helpful and sometimes, as at Lake Havasu for instance, overwhelming.

Flying in the US is far less stressful than here. However I do think your 50Hrs in 2 weeks is pretty optimistic. Something like 2Hrs per day will be much more comfortable though I appreciate you probably have a 3Hr minimum from the FBO.

Above all else, fly early. Everything's open by 6am and the air is much calmer than in the afternoon. I find it also helps no end with jet lag if you stay closer to UK time.

Your FBO checkout will undoubtedly cover getting into or under the PHX class 'B'. However you might also consider having the instructor accompany you on a cross country to an uncontrolled field like Payson (very pretty). US instructors usually don't appreciate the differences between UK and US training and may not realise that you are not familiar with the 45 deg join, just as an example.

Don't be put off by the partly justified reputation of certain fields like Sedona or the Canyon airport. Compared with the 600m grass strips we are used to here, they are a pussycat, downdrafts n' all. Do check the FBO's policy on where you can land though since some do ban Sedona. Also be wary of gravel strips like Temple Bar, even if allowed by the FBO, because it's easy to pick up stones.

Interesting places (I've mentioned a few already) include Valle with it's museum, St Johns with the white mountains, little unnatended Winslow (with the crater and picture of Lindburgh in the hut that serves as a terminal) and Bullhead City with the Nevada casinos right across the bridge. And there's Deming and Bisbee (with mine tours) right down on the border if you want to see, but not enter, Mexico.

Provided you are light (max +1 in a typical 172) the Canyon VFR routes are eminently achievable and the memories will last a lifetime. Route N across the Canyon to lovely Page, Az., and be sure to get a room in the Best Western overlooking the river where they filmed 'Evolution'. From Page go E to Monument Valley and then S to the San Fransisco Mtns and Sunset Crater before landing at Flagstaff, where you can visit the famous observatory (check for opening times). I've met pilots (In Prescott) who claim they've never flown outside of Arizona. Once you are there, you will see why.

Hope that helps.

[Jonnymarsh]

Head down towards Tucson, and talk nicely to Tucson approach and ask to do a circuit of the boneyard, if DM isn't too active and you stay reasonably high, you'll get a great view.

[david viewing]

I know I'm getting tired (or hypoxic) when I have trouble working out what the Zulu time is, esp as it's local time back home for half the year!

[fernytickles]

The practiced forced landing into convenient nice green fields of the UK doesn't extend across much of the US where the terrain is almost entirely hostile

Not done much flying in the Midwest, have you? Or the southeast, or the deep south? :confused:

If you take along a GPS, the deviation will be a no brainer. Find out initially what the difference between mountain standard time (AZ) and Zulu, make a note of it. Its pretty simple to work out thereafter.

If you do decide to do some l o n g cross countries, consider heading northeast to Oshkosh. Not as busy as a month ago, but fun to visit nonetheless. Its about 1275nm, so a couple of days each way? Lots of hour building :ok: Bring a good book for the bits across Kansas, Missouri & Illinois...... Unless you find corn fascinating... :bored:

[tmmorris]

If you've done a BFR you've probably covered this, but make sure you understand the airspace categories and rules - they call them the same things as us but they mean radically different things.

Also, I bought a very cheap digital watch, set it to Zulu and used it for flying. It helped my brain a bit.

The bit about forced landing sites applies to the east coast where I flew but I've not been to AZ...

Tim

[WHBM]

Not done much flying in the Midwest, have you? Or the southeast, or the deep south?
Correct about the Midwest, but a lot of northern Florida. Forest, forest, lake (with alligators :uhoh:), forest.

[Lew747]

Thank you for all your advice! Really appreciate it. Only 2 weeks to go now.


When it comes to customs/immigration shall I just tell them it's a normal holiday or shall i specifically mention it's an hour building trip?

[Victorian]

Never lie to US immigration!

Renting a plane in the US is not considered much different to renting a car. The question is extremely unlikely to come up, but if it does, answer truthfully - you are doing some touring and renting a plane to do it. Believe it or not, in the US, that's perfectly legal!

PS that didn't quite answer your question. I don't specifically mention flying and have never been asked about it in 50+ visits despite always having headset etc in my bag.

[Big Pistons Forever]

When I worked for a flying school I checked out a couple of UK PPL's. Maybe I was unlucky but I found the level of arrogance rather annoying. Anything that was different from how one operates an aircraft in the UK always elicited a comment about how things were being done wrong. I would advise that UK PPL's flying in North America (an area that has more GA aircraft than the rest of the world combined) keep an open mind and work at learning how things are done where you will be flying.

And no your UK PPL does not make you a better pilot than an FAA PPL.

[fernytickles]

Big etc - isn't it a little arrogant of you to assume that Lew will behave in the manner you describe?

[India Four Two]

ferny,

BPF did say "maybe I was unlucky".

However, he has a valid point. I learned to fly in the UK before moving to Canada and the flying rules and procedures are very different.

Not better or wrong, just different. For example, it took me quite a while to get used to the idea of being able to fly in an airway without talking to anyone.

So his advice is well worth listening to.

[bubo]

Looks I might be in PHX in two weeks as well. I´ve been to Sedona, Flagstaff and Prescott already, I´ll consider going to Page as suggested by david viewing.
Anybody hare has experience visiting Pinal Air park? It´s a no go item if you drive to the gate by car (tested 3 years ago), but someone told me once you land there you can take a tour. Googling didn´t showed too much on this topics. Any other suggestion for a day trip out of Deer Valley ?

[fernytickles]

Pima Air Museum is well worth visiting.

Depending on your mode of transport, Santa Fe, NM is a lovely city, and the scenery en route is stunning, from the air.

[david viewing]

On the way to Santa Fe is the very large array of radio telescopes which is quite impressive. It's in a MOA but doesn't have any specific airspace restriction. Out of deference I avoided flying through the beam judging by the way they were pointing, lest my Cessna's ignition noise would come up as 'deffo aliens detected' that evening.

Santa Fe is, as said, delightful. It's also very arty - like a giant Sedona.

Talking of aliens, due S of Santa Fe by a couple of hundred miles is the bearded one's new spaceport (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2034239/Phase-worlds-commercial-spaceport-90-cent-completed--time-flights-2013.html). I've no idea if they are accepting visitors but if you claim to be checking it out while passing by in your private plane, why not? I bet you won't be the first.

Regarding Pinal, Airnav (http://www.airnav.com/airport/KMZJ) says it's restricted but gives a phone number. It also says the FBO has fuel, so that could be a good enough reason to go there.

[mmgreve]

But most important of all - make sure to have a go in one of their Great Lakes with an Aerobatic instructor !

....can't believe noone mentionened this before

[Lew747]

Thank you once again to everyone who posted. I have now returned and literally had the time of my life! I only managed 30 hours but like as been mentioned already it was extremely hot, topping 42-43*c on several days.

Sweat would be pouring from me over the city anytime I was below 4000ft and even at 10-11,000ft over the mountains it was still around 12*c

I would highly recommend anyone to experience flying in the USA if they haven't already done so. It's nothing like back home. Airspace and charts are lot more easier to interpret, almost all the controllers I spoke to were friendly and helpful and the weather was perfect on all but the last day! I'd also highly recommend Chandler Air Service who are a great bunch of people and very laid back. We rented an RV for the 2 weeks from Cruise America and were able to pitch up just outside the airfield fence in a car park. Got a chance to drive to Vegas and the Hoover Dam in it as well as plenty of trips to Wal-Mart! Ended up flying to the Grand Canyon itself (although avoided the airspace restrictions).

....And managed to bug out 40 minutes in their Pitts S-2C...What a machine! By far the most amazing flying I have ever done and so far the best machine i've ever flown in (other than the 747 that took us over the pond of course :E)

[navygm]

Hello,

I need to ask something re flying in USA...

Could you fly with an EU PPL license in USA?
is there any permissions you have to get?

or if its not possible what are the requirements to fly there?

thank you

[BackPacker]

Navygm, you need your JAR-FCL PPL validated to fly in US airspace. This is done under FAR Section 61.75 and is informally known as a "piggyback" certificate.

If you search for that number or that word here on PPRuNe you'll find plenty information. And here's the FAA page on this:

Airmen Certification - Verify the Authenticity of a Foreign License, Rating, or Medical Certification (http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/foreign_license_verification/)

[navygm]

cheers for the info..

so basically by applying with your CAA license with FAA you could be able to use the license in US ? did I got the point?

[worldpilot]

Well, don't forget the flight review though. Without that, you won't get the American licence. Also, be aware that before you get checked out to fly solo in the US, you must be confident to go through the flight review process and procedures at all time.

Worldpilot

[MarkerInbound]

You get the FAA certificate first, it's just not valid without a record of a flight review within the last 24 months.

[Shorrick Mk2]

But does it have to be a US flight review? If your (European) license needs to be valid then surely you have to conduct your biennial flight review in accordance with whatever country issued your license has ordained as opposed to doing a FAA BFR? Quoting from 61.75:

A person who holds a foreign pilot license issued by a contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation may be issued a U.S. private pilot certificate based on the foreign pilot license without any further showing of proficiency

[achimha]

You need a BFR signed by a FAA accredited FI.

[421C]

Shorrick

You are confusing some concepts of validity and currency which are a bit confusing. I hope I use the right terminology....

In order to get a 61.75 certificate, the underlying pilot licence does need to be "valid" in the sense of "not expired" or "not withdrawn/cancelled/suspended" by the authority. On this basis you may indeed be issued an FAA pilot certificate. But now, as the holder of a valid FAA pilot certificate, you may not act as PIC unless you comply with the Part 61.56 requirements for a Flight Review. A "flight review" conducted by a non-FAA instructor or examiner does not count towards this. Conversely, the currency of your experience/ratings on the underlying licence is irrelevant. Your class ratings may lapse but as long as your licence hasn't expired, you may exercise your FAA privileges if you meet the FAA currency/flight review requirements.

brgds
421C