Here's one to boil your blood before lunch!

[Finningley Boy]

Health and safety defeats Marines who tackled Somali pirates - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8716900/Health-and-safety-defeats-Marines-who-tackled-Somali-pirates.html)

I'm sure some of you have had apoplexy over this already, but just in case some of you missed it, read on at you own risk!!!:E

FB:)

[scotbill]

That explains why the act was one of the weakest parts of the show and must have been an embarrassment to its participants.
Surely Elfin Safety does not apply to the armed forces?
Or are its empire builders hoping to expand into Afghanistan?

[Willard Whyte]

They should have refused to perform at the show.

[Buster Hyman]

Perhaps they can revert to an alternative performance. Abu Ghraib interrogation techniques...:ooh:

[Wander00]

Thought big DC was trying to reduce h&s nonsense - perhaps someone should show this to him and to Liam Fox

Disgusted of S Vendee

[incubus]

The 2010 Tattoo included a section where they simulated a patrol in a middle-eastern settings and a squad of armed soldiers approached an arabic-dressed family as they do daily checked them for weapons then spoke with them.

At the dress rehearsal before the public showings this was done properly (or close to properly) and I remember thinking that it was probably a bit full-on and not very PC for the general public. Lo, when I saw it again during the paid performances the entire approach was far more fluffy.

Winning hearts and minds these days needs to be done as much with our own public as it does with those in the operational areas and public displays need to be family friendly. It is a fact.

The H&S vs fast-roping is a damned shame too but the armed forces are no longer exempt from the Health and Safety at Work Act and as this was done as part of a public display rather than for operational reasons it is understandable.

I'm happy to make sure our guys aren't unnecessarily jeopardised for a war musical so they can go and do their jobs, capture Somali pirates and protect the shipping lanes.

[scotbill]

Health and Safety is why we have had several high profile cases in Scotland where our professional services stood by while people were dying - waiting for voluntary rescue organisations who presumably do not have the same ludicrous restrictions.

The act at this year's Tattoo was so emasculated that it would have been better to leave it out. The end result was merely to expose our troops to ridicule and give comfort to any potential pirates - which is surely not what a Tattoo is all about?

Fluffy doesn't cut it in a military display.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Oh come on, relax a little bit. I read the article and had a good chuckle at it and thought the irony was hilarious. I do agree it's a farce, but it's still amusing in the grand scheme of things.

[ehwatezedoing]

The H&S vs fast-roping is a damned shame too but the armed forces are no longer exempt from the Health and Safety at Work Act

It's even affecting the French Légion as a friend of mine told me.
They would get big b@ll@cks for not wearing ear plugs/muffs during their shooting practices.


Maybe something to do with them being able to ear orders afterward :p

[Finningley Boy]

The 2010 Tattoo included a section where they simulated a patrol in a middle-eastern settings and a squad of armed soldiers approached an arabic-dressed family as they do daily checked them for weapons then spoke with them.

At the dress rehearsal before the public showings this was done properly (or close to properly) and I remember thinking that it was probably a bit full-on and not very PC for the general public. Lo, when I saw it again during the paid performances the entire approach was far more fluffy.

Winning hearts and minds these days needs to be done as much with our own public as it does with those in the operational areas and public displays need to be family friendly. It is a fact.

The H&S vs fast-roping is a damned shame too but the armed forces are no longer exempt from the Health and Safety at Work Act and as this was done as part of a public display rather than for operational reasons it is understandable.

I'm happy to make sure our guys aren't unnecessarily jeopardised for a war musical so they can go and do their jobs, capture Somali pirates and protect the shipping lanes.


Incubus,

There is far too much of a twist in your explanation, I don't think damaging the reputation of H.M. Forces generally and the Marines in particular, is explained away by saying all this nonsense ensures they don't come a cropper at the Tattoo in the meantime, so that they stand a better chance of really risking their necks doing it for real later on.:ugh:

FB:)

[Fire 'n' Forget]

All this could easily have been avoided if they had just changed the scenario. From pirates to 'straying into Iranian waters' then there would have been no need for shooting, and surrendering would have been factual :}

[Tankertrashnav]

Ah yes, but who'd pick up the tab for a load of new suits from M & S? ;)

[airborne_artist]

And who would have played the part of the lady sailor? :}

[diginagain]

And who would have played the part of the lady sailor?

Sorry, thought for a moment you said lardy sailor.

[airborne_artist]

Sorry, thought for a moment you said lardy sailor.

She was no Twiggy, that's for certain :E

[Geehovah]

It would be hilarious if it wasn't true:ugh:

[Yellow Sun]

Off the original topic, but enough to get me annoyed! (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23980400-children-banned-from-shooting-events-in-2012-ticket-giveaway.do):mad:

YS

[diginagain]

Pity. I thought that with the practice they get the local nippers would be a shoe-in for the GB pistol team.

[Grabbers]

And the 100m sprint. Legging it after a gunshot since before they could walk, I shouldn't wonder.

[500N]

YS
"Off the original topic, but enough to get me annoyed! (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23980400-children-banned-from-shooting-events-in-2012-ticket-giveaway.do)

"Children banned from shooting events in 2012 ticket giveaway"


Meanwhile, the same children play World of Warcraft and Call of Duty all day on the computers which is non stop killing and shooting !!!:ugh:

[west lakes]

Perhaps this might put some press reports into context: - HSE Press Office - putting the record straight in 2011 (http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/record.htm)
It is nothing to really do with the HSE (government) more about councils & organisers scared of liability.

[The Helpful Stacker]

West Lakes - Spot on. I fear though the outrage bus has already left town with all the usual suspects holding on for dear life on the outside.

The press reports "H&S gone mad" and the chattering masses dive on, all the while failing to see the insurance industry representatives shuffling out stage left.

Blaming the HSE is easy, after all the red tops and the papers obsessed with Princess Diana feed the willing but unthinking blobs that make up society everything they need. Government institutions (everyone loves kicking civil servants), a story so daft you can hardly believe it (and perhaps shouldn't) with a side serving of things the public like to consider theirs (the military, hanging baskets in city centres, etc), its all there, ripe for the picking.

Perhaps one day the heaving mass of idiocy known as 'the general public' will, as one, become a little more learned and start to actually think about the garbage they are being fed but unfortunately I doubt it will happen.

Best service that bus as soon as it gets back, no doubt it will be needed again soon.

[west lakes]

And this morning

Chris Grayling publishes list of ten most bizarre health and safety bans - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8719267/Chris-Grayling-publishes-list-of-ten-most-bizarre-health-and-safety-bans.html)

it kind of puts the bus off track!

[Green Flash]

I saw the show on the first Wednesday and did think the pirate bit was a bit, well, odd, to say the least. And where was 'elf 'an safety when, on that Weds night - when it absolutely hissed down, solid, for the whole show - the programme seller working our seating block went base over apex down the steps?

Life is sometimes dangerous. Acknowledge the fact that you are aware and accept, and crack on. Simples. Oh, listen, insurance company shareholders becoming restive!

PS Trust the Cloggies to prove that you can ride a bike and play the trumpet, even in the hissing rain and in formation too. :):ok:

[Mike7777777]

Boarding pirate vessels by sliding down ropes sounds a bit risky. What if the vessel's crew are equipped with AK47 or RPG? Surely it's far better to use the traditional approach: wireless/Aldis/semaphore/signal flags/loud hailer/ one across the bows, then destroy the wheelhouse.

[finestkind]

Hmmm,

Firemen should not enter burning builders, policemen should not chase baddies with guns or go fast in cars, electician should not handle wires etc etc plus don't strain to hard on the throne you could do a damage.

[500N]

Next it will be Bayonet practice with rubber bladed bayonets, "just to be safe" so that no one cuts themselves accidently. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[c-bert]

If people didn't immediately sue organisations when things go wrong H&S wouldn't exist...

Speaking as an ex-safety engineer it is always far more about avoiding litigation than it is about stopping people getting hurt.

[ross_M]

Next it will be Bayonet practice with rubber bladed bayonets

Do those still get any use? I can't remember the last time we had a bayonet charge.....

[Whenurhappy]

Having spent time in Germany, it was refreshing to see the generally higher tolerance of risk. Litigation for personal injury is almost unknown, with the emphasis being on personal responsibility, rather than legislating for stupidity.

A typical example was our local swimming pool in Geramny, which had the usual death-defying tube slides. There was a pictographic safety poster which made it clear to all what the rules were and these were then cheerfully ignored by all those who used it. Result? Not many died, at all. If anyone had been injured, it was because they broke obvious, common-sense rules. If the same slide was in use in the UK, there would be a life guard on duty, tearful children who were a centimetre too short to use said slide, parents who could not accompany their more fearful children down the tubes, etc etc.

The cafe in the same swimming complex sold the usual selection of snacks -and alcohol! Imagine the outcry in the UK if alcohol was served at a swimming pool? We spent a lot of time at the pool with our young kids and never once did we see any alcohol related problems - and it was a simple pleasure to have a weissbeer, on a sun-lounger, whilst the kids were hurling themselves off the high diving board - again, no one died!

I support C-Bert's tennent that the imposition of these often preposterous 'rules' is about the avoidance of litigation and not reduction of accidents. I remonstrated at my son's (UK) primary school which would not allow a rugby ball in the play-ground, on the basis that it encouraged 'rough play'. Oh, unlike the antics of supporters of that other, round ball game, then? I susbequently learned that it was more to do with the high insurance premiums for personal and public injury liability that the school had to stump up.


Bah, humbug. Ding ding - all aboard the Outrage Bus!

[500N]

Ross

Are you referring to "we" as in US or "we" as in UK ?

From memory, British troops used them (bayonet charge) a couple of times during the last Iraq war. I believe one was because the insurgents were firing from within a crowd of civilians and so the British found it hard to fight back,
resulting in the Officer leading a bayonet charge.

I think the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders did one as well. Not sure if it was the same.

Will try to look up a reference.

.

[Whenurhappy]

Do those still get any use? I can't remember the last time we had a bayonet charge.....

If you see UK footage from Afghnistan, principally Helmand Province, you will see bayonets fixed during patrols and compound clearances. There is one iconic image of a Royal Marine Lt calling in a joint fire, surrounded by smoke and by his chaps all with fixed bayonets.

I was issued one when I was out there and it never left my rifle roll, indeed I couldn't find it on my return and I was billed by Uxbridge a whopping GBP15.00 for losing it. At that price it would have been an attractive item to lose...

However, although bayonets are meant to encourage the fighting spirit, I'm not sure that the image of a middle-aged, bespectacled, slightly portly, senior RAF officer leaping over the parapet with a bayonet would inspire the troops. Quite the opposite, in fact!

[500N]

A couple of photos here of RAF with Bayonets
Royal Air Force School of Training 100th ENTRY (http://www.the-100th-entry.co.uk/#3)

and modern one's here
RAF Benson - News and Weather (http://www.raf.mod.uk/newsweather/index.cfm?storyid=BF078F50-1143-EC82-2E28F649357FB80E)

[Whenurhappy]

A bayonet charge was lead by a then Maj (now Lt Col DSO) in Alamarah in 2004.

[ross_M]

If the same slide was in use in the UK, there would be a life guard on duty, tearful children who were a centimetre too short to use said slide, parents who could not accompany their more fearful children down the tubes, etc etc.

Wow! The UK sounds as bad as the US. I thought the mandated sissyness was unique to my side of the pond.

[MagnusP]

Firemen should not enter burning builders

I'm not entirely sure anyone would want to! ;)

[finestkind]

Well it maybe a female firewoman?

[Buster Hyman]

Indeed, they're already on fire, why humiliate them further?

[BossEyed]

Another recent bayonet charge (http://www.hmforces.co.uk/news/articles/1723-hero-soldier-who-led-bayonet-charge-against-taleban-wins-bravery-award). This one in Afghanistan 2008/2009, led by a Corporal from 45 Cdo, who was awarded the Conspicuous Gallantry Cross for that and other acts.