17th Aug 2011, 09:17
It would appear that Henry's reaction to the survey is to adopt the 'Caring Employer' stance (remembering that the Company was/is only monitoring sickness rates so that they can 'help if needed'.)
Deluge us with lots of Educational nonsense so that when we get tired, it's not his or Rostering's fault.
Wonder if much will actually change - I know a few patterns have.
Cynical old me.....................
17th Aug 2011, 13:36
get rid of split duties( night) - absolutely dangerous.
17th Aug 2011, 19:35
Good post and article, Datsun. I agree 100%.
I would add 24 hour layovers to the most fatiguing list, especially when they are followed by 2 crew operations with flight times over 5-6 hours. How is one supposed to swap body clocks like that in one day? It is nearly impossible unless the majority of both duties avoids circadian low which is seldom the case. This becomes especially heinous when there are several consecutive 24 hour layovers in a pattern.
18th Aug 2011, 08:03
Guys, I'm all for bitching on here about these practices which are against company policy. I just hope every time this is happening to you, you are filling a fatigue ASR.
Scheduling overnights between 18 and 30 hours is against Part A recommendations. You should be filing an ASR-F (I know, every pattern, oh well, get used to fighting for your Q.O.L. and well-being).
They swap night duties and day duties on you? File an ASR-F. The company should avoid mixing day and night duties back and forth. It is in print on the Part A. It might not be an FTL, but it is an approved document and they can be held accountable if they do not follow company recommended procedures which are signed off by the CAD.
Only we can make sure that there is a paper trail to these abuses. Think of it as insurance if you ever do ding one in. The company does the same, what do you think this fatigue "education" package is? This is a way for them to pass on the buck to us! Do the same, and pass it right back to them by filling your ASR-F! They can ignore whinging on public forums, and they do - but they can't ignore paperwork that stacks up and can be tracked.
They have to react to it, something needs to be done. So please make sure you document these abuses, don't just wine about them. Talk to anyone on the JRC and they will echo what I am saying, they see it first hand when people do take the trouble to file these forms.
18th Aug 2011, 08:18
Thanks 7700 - that is outstanding advice! Mechanics of the ASR F?? Ie can FO's put one in independently of the Capt? I assume they can as crews arrive at the doorstep of fatigue from many differing points on their own roster.
18th Aug 2011, 08:53
The company continues to waste millions saving thousands.
Split duties will eventually kill people.
PX'ing on the FX for two sectors to operate the third sector just to save a few hundred dineros is mind-numblingly stupid when a few hours delay means 4 hotel rooms instead of none.
The inmates have taken over the asylum and most are so tired they can't be bothered to contribute to the debate anymore.:hmm:
18th Aug 2011, 16:19
Anybody can file an ASR-F at any time. It also doesn't have to be filed at the end of the flight, you can save the paperwork until you're actually able to concentrate on writing!
And don't forget to fill in the back of the form also. ASR-Fs without the record of duties or sleep events are next to useless.
19th Aug 2011, 03:51
It's a bit of a PITA to fill out the form, but very much worth the effort for the reasons S7700 described.
19th Aug 2011, 07:57
If CX want me to complete a CX fatigue course, then I will require CX credit hours. This is yet another program we are expected to complete on our own time and dime. If you want to legally cover your ass Henry at least make it official and provide the credit hours to complete the course. Until then, I'm not interested.
19th Aug 2011, 10:15
And it continues. Now we have to complete a Safety Management System module. All for free, all on our own time. This is getting ridiculous. If they want us to do this stuff, roster it and give us the credit hours. As far as I'm concerned this is at the 'behest of the company' and should be rostered and credited as such.
Enough is Enough. We need to start pushing back on this.
20th Aug 2011, 04:46
I like this BS!!
Here we are with the survey saying that the most fatiguing patterns are the DEL BKK HKG and the BOM BKK HKG sectors. They even know that they are fatiguing due to no recovery time!
Henry's way of fixing it is by sending me 6 emails about how to manage my f...ing rest! What an utter load of cr@<hidden>
Henry stop telling me how to suck eggs and grow some balls and fix the problem by allowing more recovery time!:mad::eek:
20th Aug 2011, 05:45
We could all call unfit for the pattern. If that happened, I'm guessing it would change.
20th Aug 2011, 12:22
That's how the cabin crew get patterns and allowances changed...We just have too many selfish fools tripping over themselves to work G days and "help" the company.
"Help" = Screwing each other out of EFP, pattern improvements, days off, rostered requests and roster stability.