Vulcan at Halton?

[thowman]

In this month's Flypast, there is a picture of a Vulcan B1 XA892 at RAF Halton. Living close by, and knowing that there is no paved runway there, I was just wondering how this aircraft got there? Would it have landed on the grass, or been brought in by road?:8

A

[Sook]

I believe it was flown in (source: the bloke sat next to me!)

[bobward]

Sure it wasn't Leonard Nimoy?
:8

[RFCC]

Not sure if it's the same tail number but I watched a Vulcan land there in '67. It was shepherded by a small twin (Beagle 206?).
There's more information somewhere in the Pprune archives.

[jamesdevice]

see Vulcan and Comet at RAF Halton 1970s (http://www.aircraft-photos.net/forum/tm.aspx?m=4169)
and
Mystery Vulcan - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums (http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=133&highlight=Halton+Vulcan)

[hval]

Thowman,

Aircraft-Photos.net (http://www.aircraft-photos.net/forum/tm.aspx?m=4169) have information for you (with photographs)

Click on the above.

EDIT - Jamesdevice beat me to it. END EDIT

[jamesdevice]

sorry hyal
looks like there were two there in the past?

[hval]

Jamesdevice,

It does indeed. Along with a comet or two.

[Mandator]

Three Vulcans, two Comets. The first Comet was flown in by John Cunningham.

[Ripline]

If I recall correctly from a recent book about a test pilot of the period the three V-bomber specs were altered quite late on in development to allow grass strip operations. The designers must have loved that......

Ripline

[JEM60]

The Vulcans were indeed flown in, and I believe there are pictures in the relevant local paper 'The Bucks Herald' at the time. I was a Staff Cadet on 613 Gliding School when John Cunningham came along to inspect the grass runway surface before bringing the Comet in.. Basically, I saw him stick his heel in occasionally, and then he said 'fine, I'll bring it in on Monday' or whatever day it was. At a B of B day later, a Blackburn Beverley landed to pick up the RAF Falcons, which it had previously disgorged, leaving massive ruts which seemed to last forever.

[Lima Juliet]

There was an Argosy at RAF Halton until the mid 90s...

http://forum.keypublishing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77855&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1114680866

Plus many Hawker Hunters (1 still gate guardian), many Folland Gnats (1 still in the station museum), many Jet Provosts (1 is now a horse jump on the airfield perimeter), Javelins, Sea Vixen, Scimitar, Chipmunks (there are at least 3 still flying on the airfield), AVRO Lincoln to name but a few. There was even a MkIX Spit in one of the hangars until about 2005.

The Vulcans landed with little gas, chutes trailing and were kept moving until on the hard standing. The Comet only just made it with Cats Eyes standing on the brakes and the nosewheel stopping in the overrun hedge!

Halton is still cleared as a TLZ practice strip for C130 - its in either GASOs or JSP554; I can't remember. Chinooks, Puma and Merlin make the odd visit as well.

LJ

[Krystal n chips]

The Vulcans and the Comet were the preserve..in the main..of the "super techs" for EGR's although one was so badly corroded it was a miracle it survived any wind speed above 5kts.

The venerable Piston Provost was also used not only for basic airframes, but also for marshalling training...along with a camouflaged Whirlwind from Benson?? which would lob in for about 30 mins.

There was also the remains of a Beaufighter, or rather the fwd. fuselage and wings / engines with a little hut next to it again, in theory used for EGR's but I never heard or saw it used. It was located at the rear of the hangars, near to the little path over the stream that leads to the OM..more or less...and where some elderly Gp. Capt took exception one summers day to 6 apprentices having an impromptu " R n R" in the sun....some people have no sense of priorities.

No idea what the eventual fate of the Beau was however.

[BEagle]

Given that the RAF didn't retire its last Beaufighter until as late as 1960, it would perhaps be natural to assume that the Halton engine running rig was one of those last TT10s.

Not so!

In fact it was part of a very early Beaufighter Mk1F. X7688 was built in 1941, and later became maintenance airframe 3858M - here's a photo I found on the Internet; it was taken 'in the 1950s':

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/G-DINT.jpg

3858M was subsequently registered as G-DINT to a private owner at an address near Sandy, Beds., although it was de-registered by the CAA in Mar 2010. Hopefully it's still at his farm?

[Tankertrashnav]

Not a grass strip admittedly, but there is an interesting account by Victor QFI Tony Cunnane of delivering a Victor to Catterick (3,300') for use by the fire school there.

Final flight - XA939 (http://tonycunnane.co.uk/finalflights1.html)

There was a Valiant at Catterick when I was there in 1965, which had also been flown in.

[HTB]

Didn't Joe theStrange also deposit a Vulcan at Catterick for the same purpose?

[ZH875]

XL321 aka Rusty Bin was sent to Catterick, along with another of 50(B) Sqns finest heaps. IIRC the Yorks Police closed the road in time for the a/c to land without disrupting the A1 traffic. Pity the Police used Local and the RAF used Zulu, fancy wanting to close a road 1 hour after the aircraft landed.:O

[foldingwings]

There was an Argosy at RAF Halton until the mid 90s...

Aaah! A Whistling Tit! How wonderful!

Foldie:p

[thowman]

Halton is still cleared as a TLZ practice strip for C130 - its in either GASOs or JSP554; I can't remember. Chinooks, Puma and Merlin make the odd visit as well.

Never seen a Herc in a circuit, but had to low flying Pumas fly over my house the other day heading over to Halton. I guess the hercs are very busy elsewhere.

Thanks for the info on the Vulcan. I went to a couple of airshows in the 80s, and didn't remember seeing them there then - but my question has been answered. Best memory is of a Lightening doing a display in the mid 80s in low cloud, and doing a steep climb into the clouds. I guess the Heathrow traffic was kept well away that day.

A

[iRaven]

Not a Herc but here's a Dak that landed at Halton in recent years...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3103/2578061841_99213e8de2.jpg

:ok:

[iRaven]

And here's 2 Vulcans and a Canberra at Halton quite a few years back...

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/P3K/Odds%20and%20Sods/Vulcan1.jpg

[peppermint_jam]

Any truth to the rumour I heard years ago that one of the Vulcans was flown in by a female pilot?

[Tankertrashnav]

Judging by how neatly they are both parked I'd say absolutely none ;)

[Thai Pom]

I can remember the Vulcan being delivered to Catterick. Nearly shook the windows out of the house in the Village :)

[leader12uk]

The Bucks press still has photos of the vulcan landing, with a Landrover firetruck statigically placed to show scale. the photos also appear in the History of Bucks also by the Bucks press.

[chevvron]

The touchdown point of the '67 one was still visible for some time afterwards. The touchdown was perfectly judged about 100 yds from the boundary of the airfield on what is now runway 20 with a displaced threshold some 400yds further on!!
As well as being a staff cadet on 613, which gave me chance to examine the wheelmarks closely, I was just finishing 6th Form at Chesham High School and we happened to be carrying out a project near Halton involving filming with an 8mm cine camera (remember those) and the cameraman managed to get a shot of the Vulcan on final from Aston Clinton.

[JEM60]

PEPPERMINT JAM. I would think there is absolutely no truth in that rumour. No female pilots in the RAF at that time.as far as know.

[Duchess_Driver]

I remember there being at least two Vulcans, possibly three(?) at Catterick as well as the Victor, a Hastings (TG536?) an Argosy and in the latter days a Super VC10. (Though that one did arrive by road.) There was also a Sea Vixen, Canberra and a lightning dotted around the old CVR(T) track.

All were burnt/removed before the Army moved.

I have recollections the Vulcans and Argosy at Halton in the late 70's and early 80's along with the lines of JP T.4's - was an in patient at the hospital but those don't seem to fit with the dates being quoted here. Certainly the Comet had gone by the late 70's. Anybody any firm(er) dates of disposal?

[Lukeafb1]

As Mandator mentions, the first Comet to arrive at Halton in 1961 (?) was flown by 'Cats eye' Cunningham.

I'm not sure of the mk, but it had single main wheels, so was a very early version. I was a Halton brat at the time and watched it land, fully expecting it to sink up to the wings in the turf. In the event, absolutely nothing untoward happened.

[WE992]

Comet 1 G-ALYT was scrapped at Halton in 1967.

Comet C2 XK716 was scrapped at Halton in 1973.

[peppermint_jam]

JEM60. Don't think said pilot was on the RAF's books!

[JEM60]

PEPPERMINT. I would suggest that whoever flew the Vulcan in would have to be a pretty experienced Vulcan Captain, and would therefore think that it would be an RAF pilot, or a Company test pilot. I am not aware of Avro ever having a female Vulcan qualified Captain, but does anyone else shed any light, or is this another urban myth.?

[goudie]

Slight thread drift.

Nothing new about bombers landing at Halton. I was evacuated there during the war (uncle was a W/O) and witnessed several B 17s make emergency landings there. One dropped it's bombs on the edge of the airfield prior to landing, fortunately they didn't explode!
Also saw Halifaxes taking off towing Horsa gliders

Small boy's paradise for aircraft spotting.

[Mandator]

The last one to be flown in (a camouflaged B1A I think) came from Waddo with an AAEE crew - there was an article about it in a contemporary Air Clues (approx 1970), which explained the planning and practicing they carried out.

[Lima Juliet]

There's also Panavia Tornado XZ630 - actually an MRCA which was a pre-production GR1 (the 12th MRCA to be built) that first flew in 1977 and did a lot of the early weapons trials work. She sits on the RAF Halton parade ground and is a backdrop to the Passing Out Parade that occurs every month for our "newbies".

No bang seats or RB199 engines though...

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafhalton/rafcms/mediafiles/35E95B72_5056_A318_A81E3C79FB9785AD.jpg

Interestingly, the current parade ground sits on the same location that 3 Sqn RFC flew from in 1913. They conducted the very first "Balloon Affil" sorties trying to prove the value of a heavier than air machine over a lighter than air balloon. They used Bleriot monoplanes.

LJ :ok:

PS. Here's an artistic rendition by Michael Turner of the 1913 flying
http://www.gava.org.uk/images/large/2008/376.jpg

The British Army Military Exercises in September 1913 saw the first tactical deployment of aircraft, with the 'Brownland' Force's headquarters sited in the grounds of Halton House. On Monday 22nd the airship 'Delta', observing for the Whiteland Forces, emerged from the mist, and a Bleriot, with underwing surfaces partly painted black for identification, was rapidly launched to intercept. Supported by a BE and a returning Farman, the intruder was successfully driven off. The temporary airfield was sited on what is now the main Parade Square, lying in the shelter of the steeply rising ground of Wendover Woods and the Chilterns.

[Tashengurt]

Aah! Many happy (talk about rose tinted!) memories of standing on that parade ground 'Baaing' at the Appos as they minced around with their goat.

[GeeRam]

In fact it was part of a very early Beaufighter Mk1F. X7688 was built in 1941, and later became maintenance airframe 3858M -

3858M was subsequently registered as G-DINT to a private owner at an address near Sandy, Beds., although it was de-registered by the CAA in Mar 2010. Hopefully it's still at his farm?

That private owner was actually Tim Moore of Skysport, and the Beau was a very long term restoration project. But, as with the TFC team at Duxford, years of worldwide searching has failed to turn up suitable flight capable engine-prop assemblies.
Tim put the Beau project up for sale quite a while back, and it's recent de-registration is because the project has been bought by an Australian collector, and is shortly due to be shipped out to Australia (may have even departed by now)

[brokenlink]

Did not the Hastings donate some parts to the Halifax recreation at Elvington?

[Mandator]

The last Vulcan flown in to Halton was XH479, a B1A delivered from Waddington on 28 June 1970. The crew comprised Flt Lts R L Beeson (Captain), N R J Wingate (Co-pilot) and M S Cull (AEO). The crew was from the Bomber & Maritime Flight Test Squadron, AAEE.

I have also found an account of the second Argosy delivery, XR140, which came from 115 Sqn at Brize on 10 February 1978. The crew in this case comprised Flt Lts Frank Hayward (Captain), Les Bryson (Co-pilot) and Terry Jones (Navigator). Frank Hayward was an ex-Brat.

[MPN11]

The crew in this case comprised Flt Lts Frank Hayward (Captain), Les Bryson (Co-pilot) and Terry Jones (Navigator). Frank Hayward was an ex-Brat.

Surely not the ex-Varsity QFI at Strubby in the mid-60s? Cantankerous, witty, and with a hearty disrespect for authority?

[ozleckie]

From memory the Comet flown in by Cats Eyes Cunningham was a Mk 1 with a different engine in # 4, possibly a Gyron Junior. The Sooties used it for practice ground running

[A2QFI]

I recall a cruel jape played on an unpopular senior apprentice when I was at Halton. He was sent up the jet pipe of the Vulcan to inspect the turbine of one of the engines. After a suitably judged interval someone in the cockpit pressed the relight button to give the erroneous impression that the engine was about to start. Matey came out the jet pipe at the speed of heat with his overalls suitably shredded!

[ZH875]

Hitting the relight with a new FLM up the jet pipe was often carried out by the older and bolder FLM's, it wasn't just a Halton jape.

FLM's, I learnt a lot about servicing from them, by fair means or foul....

[JimmAttrill]

Some poor bod (ie, me) used to have to pump the Ki-gas pump in the undercarriage bay and get covered in oil and nearly gassed by the oil fumes etc. I can only remember ever starting the port engine back in 1967. And it wasn't revved up much in case the whole thing decided to fly away! Good fun, and I worked on Hercs in Varsities on leaving Halton in 68 at 115 Sqn. They at least had electric priming pumps.

Happy days indeed :)