Canadian armed forces regain their Royal status

[sitigeltfel]

Canada reinstates word 'Royal' into names of Air Force and Navy after 43 years - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/canada/8703336/Canada-reinstates-word-Royal-into-names-of-Air-Force-and-Navy-after-43-years.html)

[MaroonMan4]

And we are just about to waste a significant amount of time, effort and money in doing the same re-invention of the wheel - we'll make everything 'Joint' or 'Defence' in a civil service/treasury led spin that alleges that it saves money and makes the military more efficient and effective, then in about 10 years time when we really understand what the real threat is for Future Force 2020, then we too will revert back to an Air, Navy and Army.

With certain limits, boundaries, and of course with resources Jointery is a combat enabler (not a combat solution), without resources it is just another cost saving measure masqueraded as an earth shattering discovery.

Well done Canada - and thank you, some us here also understand the importance of H M Queen, the Commonwealth and the history, tradition and ethos that brings.

[bob johns]

Well stated Maroonman4,there is a significant majority in Australia who would also agree with you and likewise --Well done Canada

[monkeymanagement]

So, why no RCA? Admittedly they were the Canadian Army previously, but this is a, as some have said, "reinvention of the wheel"! What protocol dictates no 'Royal' for the Army?

[Stuff]

The Royal Navy and Royal Air Force were created directly by the monarch through a Royal Charter as a single entity.

In contrast the British Army is a collective term for multiple regiments (some of which are Royal) but was not created as a single unified entity.

Standing by to be wrong.

[waveskimmer]

MM 4

:ok::D:D

[GreenKnight121]

As Stuff said...
similarly, the Canadian Army was formed piecemeal over time, with some units being created by the crown directly (and thus having a "Royal Charter"), and some created by the Canadian Parliament (and thus lacking a "Royal Charter").

[DD24.5C]

About time, many have been calling for this for a while. Sadly it has come too late for a good friend of mine who retired last year. One question remains, will they revert back to traditional RCAF ranks?

:ok::ok:

[TurbineTooHot]

Looks like the RCN have reverted to Naval ranks, I can't see the RCAF doing the same though.

Good times for Canada!!!;)

[Whenurhappy]

Managed to get one over a Canadian Air Force Colonel - rang him this morning to tell him the good news, which he hadn't heard. He rang me back to advise that they (the RCAF) will be retaining the Purple ranks, but his Army WO (Arty) - a Francophone Quebecois of thie highest order - was absolutely fuming and issuing spit lecked Gaullist expletives!


excellent result!

[Flarkey]

So, why no RCA? Admittedly they were the Canadian Army previously, but this is a, as some have said, "reinvention of the wheel"! What protocol dictates no 'Royal' for the Army?

The RCA is the Royal Canadian Artillery.

Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Regiment_of_Canadian_Artillery)

They also used to produce gramophone records, which are apparently an old kind of mp3.

RCA Records - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCA_Records)

[iccarus]

Does the 'Royal' bit have any financial impact on Pension T&C's if someone was to transfer to the RCAF?
I know a number of guys who would consider a move, but would have to spend circa $C190,000 to buy back a pension equivalent to that which they would be leaving.

[Training Risky]

So, why no RCA? Admittedly they were the Canadian Army previously, but this is a, as some have said, "reinvention of the wheel"! What protocol dictates no 'Royal' for the Army?

Oliver Cromwell's New Model Army during the 1650s had a lot to do with the lack of royal charters in some of today's Regiments.

They were disbanded after the Restoration of Charles II in 1660, but some of the names stuck: Coldstream Guards for one.:8

[jamesdevice]

surely its just an attempt to force the separatist Quebecois to show their hand early - and finally bury them in a referendum on splitting the country

[ghostnav]

This is Canada being opportunist - after the Royal Visit perhaps? They should not have Royal in their title unless they revert back to having the Union Flag in their own! I do hate it when people sit on the fence!

[Wholigan]

The current version of the Canadian flag stems from 1965, and the RCAF, RCN and CA were amalgamated into the Canadian Armed Forces in 1968.

It would seem logical to me that they could revert to their old names under the flag that was current and official at the time they amalgamated.

[Pheasant]

The Royal Navy and Royal Air Force were created directly by the monarch through a Royal Charter as a single entity.

Does the RN have a Royal Charter? I am not sure it does. The RN is quite different to the RAF in its formation and terms of service. In the RN no contract is signed by new officers (not sure about the ratings) nor an oath of allegiance given. Acceptance of the "Queen's Shilling" i.e. pay, is deemed sufficient enough "contract". Whereas in the RAF I think both a contract is signed and an oath given.

I think this is also why an RN officer never formally "retires" as such, he or she is placed on the retired list of officers but retain the entitlement to placing "Royal Navy" as a post nom, whereas the RAF have to put RAF(Retd).

[Climebear]

Does the RN have a Royal Charter? I am not sure it does. The RN is quite different to the RAF in its formation and terms of service. In the RN no contract is signed by new officers (not sure about the ratings) nor an oath of allegiance given. Acceptance of the "Queen's Shilling" i.e. pay, is deemed sufficient enough "contract". Whereas in the RAF I think both a contract is signed and an oath given.

I think this is also why an RN officer never formally "retires" as such, he or she is placed on the retired list of officers but retain the entitlement to placing "Royal Navy" as a post nom, whereas the RAF have to put RAF(Retd).

RAF officers do not have a contract either, they are 'employed' under Royal prerogative. (Incidently airmen don't have a contract either, they are 'employed' under the Royal Air Force Terms of Service Regulations (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/650/contents/made).

The use of RAF(retd) has become prevelant though it is, technically, incorrect. (Debretts Correct Form (http://www.debretts.com/forms-of-address/professions/armed-forces/raf/retired.aspx) refers). RAF officers of flt lt and above having served for 3 years on the active list retain the ability to use their military rank on retirement (QR(RAF)3002(1)).

[Pheasant]

Climbear,

Thanks for the info. I have been fed duff gen by an RAF buddy who said that he "signed on the dotted line" on arrival at Cranwell and swore allegiance to HMQ (but perhaps it was just "what the f.. am I doing here")

[Climebear]

RAF officers and airmen do swear an oath of allegience.

For even more trivia, the Air Force (Constitution) Act 1917 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/7-8/51/part/I) gave the Sovereign the legal basis for forming the Royal Air Force.

Part I
Establishment of Air Force

1 Raising and number of Air Force.

It shall be lawful for His Majesty to raise and maintain a force, to be called the Air Force, consisting of such number of officers, warrant officers, non-commissioned officers, and men as may from time to time be provided by Parliament.

[Wholigan]

provided by Parliament


That was their first mistake!

[50+Ray]

I am surely not alone in never being required to swear the Oath of Allegiance. Did my time until the 38 point when I ejected having never been shot at. No regrets, but sad to see the decline in numbers since 1988.
R

[BEagle]

I vaguely recall 'attestation' at College Hall as a Flt Cdt in 1968 with a brand new haircut (courtesy of that PoS 'Slasher').....

Maybe that slipped through the net when the GE scheme started, Ray?

[Fareastdriver]

I never swore allegiance to the Queen with the Rhodesian Army or the Royal Air Force. I wasn't legally employed by the RAF for the first ten years. I had signed on at the Air Attache's office in Salisbury, Rhodesia, on the DC (B) scheme on about the 4th April 1960. They, and I, did not know that this scheme has been replaced by the DEC (B) scheme on the 1st April 1960. I found this out when I tried to exercise what I thought was, my 5 Year option so BOAC and Cathy Pacific missed out on a captain.
In the end I ended up on a PC and left at 38.