Spitfire beat-up at Perth yesterday...

[Unusual Attitude]

No idea who it was but thanks to the Spitfire who did a quick beat up of Perth yesterday around 5pm, looked and sounded fantastic! :ok:

Pity I'd just landed as I'd have loved to sit on its wing for a few mins.....

[TRPGpilot]

Your Welcome!

[dont overfil]

He requested 1500ft transit. It was declined but 50ft was approved.
D.O.

[Unusual Attitude]

Lucky he didnt come through 30mins earlier with the carnage going on in the circuit....

[dont overfil]

You stayed well clear.:ok:

[Unusual Attitude]

I'm not daft! I sat in the overhead at 4000' until I spotted a gap...!

That thing doesn't mix well with circuit traffic....

[mad_jock]

The joys of the Perth circuit on a weekend in summer.

[Unusual Attitude]

One of the typical RT conversations of Sunday went as follows:-

Solo Student "Going Around"
Perth Tower "G-XX You've just Cut in front of a solo student"
G-XX "Well I didnt see him"
Perth Tower "G-XX He joined overhead and made calls all the way around the circuit, you joined direct to base and cut in front"
G-XX "Humph, I still didnt see him"

Guess that makes it fine then.....! :rolleyes:

Had the same thing happen to me in the Tri Pacer a few weeks ago when it was busy. Joined overhead, slotted into the traffic and flew the whole circuit making position reports, called finals and heard another aircraft moaning that I'd cut in front, turned out he was joining base, I'd not heard a single call out of him and nor had anyone else.

He moaned to one of the ground staff when paying his landing fees until he was reminded that the Standard join for Perth is Overhead and that traffic in the circuit has priority over joining traffic.

Besides, the Tri Pacer is so slow around the circuirt I'd have a job cutting anyone up !! :}

[sammypilot]

This failure of traffic to follow the requirements of the airfield is a constant problem. If an overhead join is required then EVERYBODY should join overhead and make the appropriate calls. More often than not home based aircraft seem to think that this doesn't apply to them at their own airfield and they just join crosswind, downwind or straight to base. I have been involved in perilous situations at Nottingham and Welshpool by local traffic just joining downwind despite our making the join properly and putting out the correct radio calls.

[mad_jock]

Its a wonder that something more serious hasn't happen there.

Although how do you change things apart from actually getting a controller working.

Maybe when these staff examinors become standards inspectors they can spend a couple of days there dishing out words of advice.

[Unusual Attitude]

To be fair Perth is a lot better than it used to be and the new chap in the tower has made a big difference, there are of course the odd few busy days where it gets a bit hairy.

I would suggest that the locally based pilots are actually mostly pretty good, its tends to be the visitors that dont follow the standard join that causes the problems.

IMHO pushing on into an active circuit without having the traffic visual is asking for trouble, the example from Sunday is a prime example of an accident waiting to happen.

[aluminium persuader]

Is there ATC at Perth again then?

[mad_jock]

Nope but I presume there is someone on the radio that doesn't take any ****e as we say up north.

[MarkR1981]

Nope but I presume there is someone on the radio that doesn't take any ****e as we say up north.

:E:D:E Well Said

[foxmoth]

Why does a thread about a Spitfire fly through:ok: have to descend into yet another one about circuit joins:{

[Unusual Attitude]

If you come to Perth on a busy summer day you'll find out why ! ;)

[aluminium persuader]

Many, many moons ago, I was a controller there.

Happy daze!:)

[mad_jock]

how many movemnets per day did Perth have when it did have a controller?

[aluminium persuader]

In its heyday (a bit before my time) I seem to recall reading that in terms of movements it was 3rd busiest airfield in the UK, after LHR & (I think) MAN.

When I was there the AST fleet was 15 C150s, 14 PA28s & 8 C310s. There was also the Scottish Aero Club & quite a few privately-owned a/c. Tayside & Edinburgh Air Centre also came for training & exams. I remember having a good half-dozen in the circuit and a similar number arriving/departing, as well as the hold full up. Movement numbers must have been well into the hundreds/day at times.

[bingofuel]

He requested 1500ft transit. It was declined but 50ft was approved.

Does Perth have a controller or an air ground operator? If the later then he cannot give or decline a clearance, and if the Spitfire was not taking off or landing what happened to rule 5?

Anyone who flies through an active circuit like that should expect a call from the CAA

[2 sheds]

Does Perth have a controller or an air ground operator? If the later then he cannot give or decline a clearance, and if the Spitfire was not taking off or landing what happened to rule 5?
I wondered that - the AIP says AGCS.

Either way...
Solo Student "Going Around"
Perth Tower "G-XX You've just Cut in front of a solo student"
G-XX "Well I didnt see him"
Perth Tower "G-XX He joined overhead and made calls all the way around the circuit, you joined direct to base and cut in front"
G-XX "Humph, I still didnt see him"...is most inappropriate. (One assumes that U.A. means "Perth Radio".)

2 s

[Unusual Attitude]

Solo Student "Going Around"
Perth Tower "G-XX You've just Cut in front of a solo student"
G-XX "Well I didnt see him"
Perth Tower "G-XX He joined overhead and made calls all the way around the circuit, you joined direct to base and cut in front"
G-XX "Humph, I still didnt see him"

...is most inappropriate. (One assumes that U.A. means "Perth Radio".)

Sorry I did indeed mean Perth Radio but since I'm merely posting on a website rather than talking on RT I wasn’t too fussed about using correct phraseology, I'm assuming everyone got the idea... :rolleyes:

Does Perth have a controller or an air ground operator? If the later then he cannot give or decline a clearance, and if the Spitfire was not taking off or landing what happened to rule 5?

Anyone who flies through an active circuit like that should expect a call from the CAA

Who says he wasnt doing a low appraoch and went around? Certainly if anyone asked me, thats what I saw. There was nothing else in the circuit at that point so perfectly safe and a very welcome site....its this sort of attitude thats killing GA. :ugh:

[bingofuel]

the Spitfire who did a quick beat up of Perth

Doesn't sound like an approach and go around. This sort of thing can kill people not GA

[Crash one]

Quote:
the Spitfire who did a quick beat up of Perth
Doesn't sound like an approach and go around. This sort of thing can kill people not GA


I give up, Grammar police, fun police, what a load of utter krap:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[2 sheds]

U.A.
I am all in favour of seeing interesting aircraft, given the opportunity, but consider the situation, at least according to the previous posts:

As required by the R of the A, Spitfire pilot requests information to transit the ATZ at 1500 ft (height or altitude? - quite a difference). He is then encouraged by the AGCS operator (who has zero authority) to make an approach at low level (even with a specific height of 50 feet mentioned), at short notice, when the pilot has never intended or planned to make such a manoeuvre, and with no prior intention of practising an approach as such. The only reason for such practices is merely the salacious gratification of the pilot or others and is certainly not "normal aviation practice" - as, indeed, you refer to a "beat up". Then consider if there were to be an incident or a member of the public were to complain about perceived "cowboy" practices or noise, low flying etc and the previous facts were then disclosed, how do you think that serves the cause of that aerodrome or GA in general?

2 s

[Unusual Attitude]

Fair enough 2 sheds but I think you missed the point, I very much doubt he was 'cleared at 50' by anyone and he certainly wasnt that low, it was merely a tounge in cheek comment made by someone....

I suspect a request for a low pass or similar was made by the operator and the Spitfire pilot oblidged keeping it safely within his own and the aircrafts limits. Given that said pilot will undoubtedly have a full DA I'm sure he's pretty adept at doing a low pass safely....

Indeed there are a numer of other types at Perth which undertake their display practice when its quiet and the aerodrome is pertty remote so its unlikely to bother anyone...

The only reason for such practices is merely the salacious gratification of the pilot or others and is certainly not "normal aviation practice"

Why else fly and display a spitfire or anything else for that matter if its not for "gratification of the pilot and others" ? We don't all drone around the sky straight and level going from A to B, some of us are a bit more adventurous with our flying whilst remaining perfectly safe....you'll be telling me next Aerobatics should be banned as its unsafe and pointless?

[dont overfil]

My goodness, the traffic wardens have woken up.
Some of the comments made on here are for entertainment and do not necessarily accurately represent what happened or what was said.
Get a life.
D.O.

[2 sheds]

Who was it in the first few posts who mentioned "beat up", 50 ft being "approved", "carnage" in the circuit and related the radio operator taking it upon himself to harangue a pilot on RTF?
But now we understand that
Some of the comments made on here are for entertainment and do not necessarily accurately represent what happened or what was said.

2 s

[Unusual Attitude]

Who was it in the first few posts who mentioned "beat up", 50 ft being "approved", "carnage" in the circuit and related the radio operator taking it upon himself to harangue a pilot on RTF?
But now we understand that

Quote:
Some of the comments made on here are for entertainment and do not necessarily accurately represent what happened or what was said.

2 s

Not 100% true, "carnage" is a pretty accurate description of the circuit before the Spit made his "transit" of the zone. :}

[2 sheds]

"carnage" is a pretty accurate description of the circuit before the Spit made his "transit" of the zone.
Oh, no it isn't!

..and to forestall any accusation, to quote DO...
Some of the comments made on here are for entertainment

Cheers

2 s

[dont overfil]

Unusual Attitude
We are to visit the headmasters office for a spanking!
D.O.

[Unusual Attitude]

We are to visit the headmasters office for a spanking!

I'd rather visit the Aviator for a couple of cold ones....! Thats after I've finished flying for the day just in case the fun police get all excited.... ;)

[Crash one]

Nah, stick with the spirit of the thing, "Hold my beer & watch this!!"