Pelair aav contract [Archive]

GCS16

4th Mar 2012, 01:10

Things are tough for the B200 drivers at AAV. Long hours - time pressures to plan a flight and get it out in 20 mins, 6 to 8 sectors on a dayshift or back of the clock on nightshift, into a black hole in marginal weather at an unfamiliar airport, plus bad smells from patients - aeromedical is not quite as glamorous from the inside looking out!

Add to this a gruelling roster, unnecessary 'company' pressures and not surprisingly the pilots get a bit tired and fed up. Equally un-surprising is the pilot turnover rate which PELAIR are struggling to maintain - hence the permanent advert on their website. Good for anyone wanting to try their hand at aeromed.

PPRuNeUser0161

10th Mar 2012, 10:55

I have heard that pelair are happy to accept the penalties for non complience, apparently it's cheaper than employing enough pilots to cover the program.

SN

Trojan1981

10th Mar 2012, 21:36

I have heard that pelair are happy to accept the penalties for non complience, apparently it's cheaper than employing enough pilots to cover the program.

SN

That's fine until the coroner's court gets involved; then comes either criminal prosecution, civil action from a greiving family, or both.

PPRuNeUser0161

10th Mar 2012, 22:15

This may be very interesting to see how they the two parties handle this one.

SN

Wally Mk2

10th Mar 2012, 22:28

I have no sympathy for the Govt (or those whom made the decision to accept PelAir as the provider) in this case as AAV had a good service provider (RFDS) in place for many years, it all boiled down to $$$$ at the end of the day as does everything when it comes to aviation. There is no place for safety in aviation as it costs money & we can't have that!!!

It costs big bucks to provide that level of service so the person or persons whom made the final decision wants a swift kick up the Khyber!
I genuinely feel sorry for the guys/gals at the coal face, the pilots who do the actual work (4get their employer we all know them !!!). The guys/gals also at the coal face of the AAV who struggle at times with very stressful situations working with limited 'tools'.
I do hope that the Govt see the error of their ways sometime soon (doubtful) & terminate the PelAir contract & reinstate the RFDS so that those who deserve excellent service the most, the patients get the very best!

Wmk2

PPRuNeUser0161

10th Mar 2012, 22:47

Wally
Apparently they undercut the RFDS by such a large margin it made it impossible for the RFDS to even get close. So basically if the RFDS can't do it at that price given their sector knowledge and economy of scale advantage then I'm afraid pelair have no hope. The big difference between the two is that the AAV got far more than they paid for with the RFDS. The RFDS does certain things and always with patient care at the forefront, who pays at the end of the day is not so important.

I think the RFDS went after the contract more for the territory and economy of scale rather than screwing the costs down so low that the level of service suffers. I doubt the RFDS would get it back by a handshake. If the pelair thing goes toes up they'll either get more money so the government can save face or it will go back to tender with an interim operator as was the case in the NT.

Time will tell!

SN

Wally Mk2

10th Mar 2012, 23:22

I am aware of the details 'SN'.
This Govt( as well as past Govt's) have little to no idea what they are doing when it comes to this sort of thing.The Amann fiasco is a typical Eg of what Govt's can do to stuff up things big time! Long story that one with both parties at fault I believe.

Like most things in life when it comes to Govt decisions they simply never learn & waste tax payers money like it was free!!!!
What we need is another ice age to wipe out the idiots at the helm!!!!:E

Wmk2

morno

10th Mar 2012, 23:59

Thanks for your input Lester, but you've always been full of it anyway, :hmm:.

Can you ask your pilots please, to ensure they know how to make a radio call...

morno

GCS16

11th Mar 2012, 01:15

Govt signed the contract, AAV has to make it work.
Pelair has some great staff at YMEN who do great work for the patients. Only problem is mgt are working their staff at a rate which is not sustainable for the next 9 1/2 years of the contract ie beyond MCP. Likely consequence is that they will Burn out or 'over torque' their staff and have to replace them, often!
That may end up being good for RFDS with a steady stream of B200 drivers with aeromed experience.

Howard Hughes

11th Mar 2012, 21:16

I believe the use of B350's would have severely limited the number of destinations, hence new B200's.:ok:

PS: Sounds like things in Vic have settled down to me, Rex half yearly report stated AAV contract doing well and contributing to increased profit.

scarediecat

12th Mar 2012, 11:58

I have heard that pelair are happy to accept the penalties for non complience, apparently it's cheaper than employing enough pilots to cover the program. - not enough pilots but all shifts are mostly being covered, so yes thats prob true.

Pelair are actually performing better than the previous provider
- not from where I sit

Govt signed the contract, AAV has to make it work. - exactly

Long hours - time pressures to plan a flight and get it out in 20 mins, 6 to 8 sectors on a dayshift or back of the clock on nightshift, into a black hole in marginal weather at an unfamiliar airport, plus bad smells from patients - aeromedical is not quite as glamorous from the inside looking out! - true, its not everyones cup of tea, depends upon your outlook I suppose. Its because of these reasons I believe aeromed pilots deserve a fair pay.

I do hope that the Govt see the error of their ways sometime soon (doubtful) & terminate the PelAir contract & reinstate the RFDS i aint gonna happen.

The question I have is that nobody can tell me definitely how long the contract was signed for? I suspect it was for seven years with extension options too ten years.

Wally Mk2

13th Mar 2012, 01:47

Gee 'Lester' ya really must stop writing stuff like that, yr giving me stitches laughing so much !!!!:E
It's alright 'morno' we need some balanced input here(cough cough cough) as we can't have the truth getting in the way of a good laughable story now can we?:E

Wmk2

scarediecat

13th Mar 2012, 10:20

Ahh Confucius say "Promotions that are not measured by kpi are waste of money'. Confucius also say "man go to bed with smelly bum wakes up with smelly finger"

GCS16

1st Apr 2012, 15:34

PELAIR have just lost their 12th pilot (including two that never got signed to line). Don't know what the average pilot staff turn over rate is but I suspect it is less than 66% every 9 months!

Howard Hughes

1st Apr 2012, 22:02

Why don't you get one of your mates at AAV or Pelair to publish the KPIs Wally and settle it once and for all.
Rumour has it patient numbers are down 40%! :eek:

But of course it's only rumour...;)

Wally Mk2

1st Apr 2012, 22:49

Patient No's down 40% you say 'HH'? This can only be a good thing can it not?:-)
'LB" I don't have any mates at AAV anymore,once I left & stopped paying them to be my mates I was on the outer !:E I don't think that anyone needs to be a rocket scientist to know that PelAir are really doing a sterling job..........at NOT keeping pilots!
When the 'Rufdus' had the contract there was always (mostly) a steady stream of pilots wanting to work for them,I wonder why that is not the case with PelAir!
At the end of the day it's the people of Vic that suffer the Govt's foolish mistakes.With any luck the current Govt will go down the toilet (which looks to be the case)& not inflict their awful way of doing business again on us.

'HH' what's good' old Bob up to there in Syd? Give him my regards will ya& lets hope that ferry doesn't get lost when Bob is on board!:)

Wmk2

TENTOTEN

3rd Apr 2012, 04:00

Wally you most likely mean well however with over a 1,000 posts perhaps you need to move on and get a life outside of PPRUNE!!!!

Wally Mk2

3rd Apr 2012, 07:48

Who needs to get a life here??'....sheeeeez....But TT' yr prolly right there 2 some degree but come back when you've got around a 1000 posts & we can discuss what options I have seeing as I don't have a woman to make my life miserable:-)

Wmk2

Under Dog

3rd Apr 2012, 09:01

I'm Not quite sure what you said to upset this Tenoten "Wally" But you sure got under his skin:ok:

The Dog

Di_Vosh

3rd Apr 2012, 09:54

Wally, I don't always agree with you, but I appreciate (most of) your posts!

Keep that Prune life going :ok:

DIVOSH!

Towering Q

8th Apr 2012, 01:03

I hardly ever agree with him...(PC12 :p), but still appreciate most of his posts. (Maybe I need to get a life too!)

Lester Burnham

8th Apr 2012, 08:00

Wally; it was the previous government that awarded the contract. I am pretty sure the current government campaigned against Pelair winning it. You'd have to think if Pelair were that bad they would be out on their arse.

The tender was awarded because one tenderer scored higher on the tender assessment than the other tenderer, as are most tenders except when the government intervenes to favor a treasured sacred cow, for example the recent Australia Network tender (or your dream of the government intervening here).

I reckon I would agree with Wally that the RFDS are much better to work for than Pelair. I also think RFDS would be far better at recruiting and have far more applicants than the RFDS. I am sure their pilots are many times happier. The problem is, none of that is relevant with respect to contract performance. Companies don't get awarded contracts or keep them just because they have happy pilots. It is harder to do when your staff are unhappy, but sadly not impossible. Even companies that are a**holes to their employees can be very good at what they do. Look at the wider Rex Group, not many would say they are an employer of choice (they don't seem to be the nicest employer in the world) but no one can deny they are very good at what they do.

If Pelair blow the contract they'll lose it. If not they'll retain it. Not rocket science.

DynaBolt

8th Apr 2012, 09:51

Lester
So true But its only early days of the contract.
DynaBolt

Counter-rotation

8th Apr 2012, 22:59

That's at least half the reason they contract the work out in the first place I reckon... Distance themselves from any culpability. But of course, should it work well, they'll be in the press spruking about it. It's politics 101. :ok:

:yuk:

GRINDER

9th Apr 2012, 00:30

Patients are dying waiting to be retrieved in the NT

Whats the scoop with Careflight? - I thought it was going well for them.

GCS16

13th Apr 2012, 00:45

Contracting has always been about contracting out the problem! Hence the reason you pay more for a contract than you do if you pay wages to your own staff (when things are going right at least)
There have always been patients who will die waiting to be retrieved, NT VIC or elsewhere. Who's to say they will live if they get to a bigger getter hospital always. The best of medical science cannot reverse years of poor diet and lifestyle.
Anyways always better that the patient die waiting to be retrieved than the crew die "rushing" to get there - marginal weather - limited planning - pressing necessity - sick sick come quick etc!

kalavo

13th Apr 2012, 23:23

Care to share some details eocvictim?

I can think of a few cases under the NTAMS contract, but haven't heard of any recently. Genuinely curious!

Trojan1981

14th Apr 2012, 02:15

That's all well and good, GCS16, but those were not the circumstances within the cases in question. The patients shouldn't have waited the enormous lengths of time they did and would have survived if they weren't stuck in the hands of a nurse who's resources were limited.

eocvictim,
Can you please elaborate or provide a source for this? I don't understand how the retrieval service in NT could be worse than under the previous contract, quite the opposite. Has there yet been a survey of patient outcomes for patients authorised for retrieval? If so it would likely be publicly available.

Trojan1981

16th Apr 2012, 04:43

In fact they'd be taking a pay cut for working longer hours in an FO gig with Virgin or Jetstar which probably explains their excellent retention rate.Not flogged,good rosters, good equipment,fair management.

As EMS should be considering the risk, skill and importance of the role when compared to airline flying.

neville_nobody

16th Apr 2012, 05:17

.In fact they'd be taking a pay cut for working longer hours in an FO gig with Virgin or Jetstar which probably explains their excellent retention rate

You would want that given the cost of living in the NT these days

Squeaks

20th May 2012, 12:38

Another (very experienced) chum has quit the AAV gig, unable to justify getting $80k/year to work 5 on/1 off with mandatory shift extensions up to 15 hours if required.

To quote him: I don't want to be the flaming hole in the ground, which will happen sooner or later.

:sad:

scarediecat

21st May 2012, 09:22

Management: shakes tree
Monkey: falls out of tree
Problem: solved!

Dances With Dingoes

24th May 2012, 00:36

Dotell

Good post, Mostly true. They are still under the interim contract as far as I know but now the dead wood has been pruned they are very well placed to conform when the new contract begins on Jan 1 of next year.

In fact they'd be taking a pay cut for working longer hours in an FO gig with Virgin or JetstarI know FO's at Virgin and J*, I also know one or two pilots at CF. You might want to revise that one.

DD

Dances With Dingoes

24th May 2012, 00:41

Back to the main event.

Is there anything good coming out of Vic (apart from Origin scores) with the AAV contract?

GCS16

2nd Jun 2012, 14:24

PELAIR have lost enough pilots now that they can't fill some of the shifts and other times flights don't go ahead because pilots can't extend their shifts (beyond the rostered 12 hrs) due to the the FRMS.
Starting to cop some contract breaches. Would like to know how much it costs them each time. Better than a weeks wages for a pilot I'm guessing.