Ramadan in UAE

[Swan Man]

After spending many years in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia I now get to enjoy my first Ramadan in the UAE and what a difference.
Even the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques allowed us to eat in public and lead a somewhat normal life during Ramadan. I know normal is all relative in the middle east and Saudi is far from normal but it was not as harsh as it is in the UAE during Ramadan.
It was perceived in the Kingdom that if a Saudi saw an infidel eating during daylight hours and the local was not tempted to eat he got bonus points. Why is it in the land of pork, nightclubs, bikinis and booze we are not allowed to eat in public during daylight? Are they trying to make our lives as miserable as theirs?
No other Muslim country imposes these kinds of restrictions on its subjects as far as I know plus if the Kingdom does not do it why should any other Muslim country impose?
Kids are not even suppose to eat during Ramadan. I was at the Mall of the Emirates this week and a security guard told children around 8 years old to stop eating. Aren't kids (and pregnant ladies) exempt from these types of restrictions?
This is all rediculous and I should know by now how people in this part of the world operate but I was in the most restrictive part of the Arab world and didn't have as much problems as the UAE gives during Ramadan.
Tourist and pilots beware. You are entering the land of no return.

[Dubaian]

No other Muslim country imposes these kinds of restrictions on its subjects as far as I know Then Sir you do not know much. It is standard practice and widely publicised in all Gulf States that no-one (whatever their religion) should eat or drink in public during daylight hours. And your car is considered to be public.

It's many years since I spent a Ramadan in Riyadh and it was definitely not as you describe. In fact even outside Ramadan shops and restaurants closed and evicted customers at Prayer times.
Ramadan in UAE is NOT unusually restrictive. And you can enjoy an Iftar Snifter if you wish - unlike in Qatar & Bahrain.

[Skylight Dome]

Looking for something to nag, are you? :hmm:

Why is it that I'm not allowed to bring Cuban cigars into the USA, even though I'm not an American?

The answer is, because when you go abroad, the laws of your host apply. Whether it makes sense to you or whether you like it or not.

[TwoTone-7]

Swan Man, it would lead me to assume you were in both countries against your free will?

The Kingdom and UAE although neighbours are able to exercise their own laws. Why is assisted suicide allowed in Switzerland and not it's neighbouring countries. Why is Cannabis legal in Holland and criminalised in the UK. Why should the Kingdoms rule be the absolute standard?

Of course Muslims who are not eligible or discouraged from fasting are encouraged to consume foodstuff in private and not in the presence of fasting people. I suspect this is not Islamic law but law of the land as a mark of respect to it's majority Muslim population. You ought to respect it or perhaps not bother working or visiting the said countries.

[SassyPilotsWife]

[QUOTE]
"Even the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques allowed us to eat in public...
[/QUOTE

Do you honestly think a custodian would challenge you if you're a western expat ? Bet you didn't try it in front of a Saudi official.

"Why is it in the land of pork, nightclubs, bikinis and booze we are not allowed to eat in public during daylight? Are they trying to make our lives as miserable as theirs? "

No one can make your life miserable. Only you make yourself miserable. You have complete control of what you allow to bother you and what you don't. If all this makes you miserable, you're in the wrong part of the globe my friend.

"This is all rediculous and I should know by now how people in this part of the world operate "

As is your post.

Instead of thinking "they" are trying to make you miserable, perhaps you can take it in and learn something from it. I see no mention or any inclination from your post that suggest any respect the culture here or religion. Did it feel good that you were able to eat in front of a man who for the love of his God and his religion had not eaten or drank water since about 4:30 that morning?

While I am a Christian and not Muslim, I respect their religion and the laws set in place by it. For me, Ramadan is not just for Muslims, it is a time for all mankind to reflect on what it is like for those not as fortunate as we are. Especially those who build the infrastructures by which we live in, work in, buy pork in and even drink in. So while you're frustrated by the fact you can't sit at the mall and ingest a saturated fat filled hamburger, stop and think about those in the world who have nothing to eat.

Unless you're stuck here because you have outstanding debts, bad cheques or lost your passport, turn the lights off as you leave.

Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.
If you really have that much time on your hands, please tell us, Why is the sky blue ? Why are trees brown? Why is the earth round ?


A380.. yep it changes each year. I think because they are concerned that the lienency had slipped a bit. And others simply don't respect it at all. It would be great if it were same same each year but we know where are. We adapt and deal with it.

[Old King Coal]

Yesterday at lunchtime (= in broad daylight, foresooth ! ), Mrs OKC & I dropped in at the University Village student cafeteria (an evident den of sedition, if ever there was one, in Dubai?!), with the intention of procuring some 'sweet meats' to take-away with us (neither of us wishing to be caught 'eating in Public', for the obvious ramadamadingdong reasons), but therein we were somewhat surprised to find the vendors within the food court doing a roaring trade, and the place packed with folk both munching & drinking away with apparent impunity.... way to go !! :D

In any event, you've got to wonder about any 'religion' that requires 'legal enforcement' in order to coerce folk to comply with and / or 'respect' it... so go figure, eh?!... and for those of a curious mind (rather than a closed one) you might check out this link: An Atheist's Guide to Mohammedanism (http://www.atheists.org/religion/An_Atheist_Guide_to_Mohammedanism) from which I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions. ;)

[w7daawi]

hats off for SassyPilotsWife (http://www.pprune.org/members/263209-sassypilotswife) :ok:

as Skylight Dome said :
The answer is, because when you go abroad, the laws of your host apply. Whether it makes sense to you or whether you like it or not.

[hercrat]

[QUOTE]
"Even the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques allowed us to eat in public...
[/QUOTE

Do you honestly think a custodian would challenge you if you're a western expat ? Bet you didn't try it in front of a Saudi official.
...............

Swan Man, I believe, was referring to "THE Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques". ie King Abdulla

[Stratocruzer]

am inclined to add but then you guys have said it all

way to go sassypilotswife!:ok:

instead of looking for faults we should respect the laws of the land we chose to be in or better yet contribute to the community we chose to be in and in that regard i believe sassypilotswife is putting her money where her mouth is with her ramadan charity

the world i believe would be a much better place if we were to respect each other instead of picking out faults. the uae is not perfect nor is the kingdom but then none of us are and as two tone-7 and skylight dome pointed out other countries too have their own laws that others might find strange to say the least

[Devils Advocate]

SassyPilotsWife - wrote:If you really have that much time on your hands, please tell us, Why is the sky blue ? Why are trees brown? Why is the earth round ?

Well I find myself with time upon my hands, so let me endeavour to respond to Sassy's questions:

Q) Why is the sky blue ?

A) Well the sky is not always 'blue', and it's also not necessarily seen in the same colour by all living creatures (as what is 'seen' depends upon how ones eyes are attuned to react to the 'light' contained within the electromagnetic spectrum) but as to an explanation as to why the sky changes colour (as 'seen' by human eyes), that's due to the wavelength dependence of 'Rayleigh Scattering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_scattering)'.

Q) Why are trees brown?

A) Err, not all trees are brown?!

Q) Why is the earth round ?

A) That'd be due to Gravity! (albeit that most spinning orbs, ones that have mass, are not perfectly round, due to the Centripetal force of rotation acting upon the mass in the direction of rotation. Accordingly the Earth is in fact an 'Oblate Spheroid' wherein, when measured around the equator, the Earth is 43 km more than the diameter when measured via the poles).

[nitro rig driver]

So why can't they seem to abide by our rules in our country then !!


Anjem Choudary and Islamic extremists set up Sharia law zones in UK cities | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019547/Islamic-extremists-set-Sharia-law-zones-British-cities.html)

[TwoTone-7]

Nitro Rig Driver - Because in every society there seem to be those who disagree with the rules and some are extremists.

Swan Man is a mild example of the above.

Here is another:

British couple arrested in Dubai over sex on the beach - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/dubai/2275123/British-couple-arrested-in-Dubai-over-sex-on-the-beach.html)

I just read your link regarding the UK and in the case of Anjem Choudary, it is shame that his extreme views are used as ammunition for people such as yourself. I am sure there are millions of Muslims in the UK that are law abiding and probably are just as annoyed by Anjem Choudary as you are.

[Old King Coal]

And here's another: Tourist fined for anti-Muslim Remarks (http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/crime/tourist-fined-for-anti-muslim-remarks-1.846401)

[nitro rig driver]

TT

Whilst everyone is intitled to their views my point was more that they are allowed to preach it in the "borrowed country" that they move to,to try and change it into their own country and moving them out legally is even more fraught because of the PC brigade and so called human rights..

[Swan Man]

What I was trying to point out was since I am a law abiding man I adhere to the laws of the UAE as I did in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. I was pointing out how the holiest of Muslim lands does not require me not to eat in public. I still obey the law just find it more than a little hypercritical.
As many people have pointed out it does seem like when Arabs come to the west they still want to live by the laws in the middle east.
I am most certainly not a mild extremest. I am perfectly willing to live by their rules no matter how arcaic they may seem. I am also allowed to make fun of their laws just not in public because of the lack of free speech.

[Jetaim]

Sassy you are a human case.
Even more you are a perfect example of the kind of people that in an effort to control the world population we should get rid off.
The planet would be a much better place where to live without idiots like you.
Apparently you cannot smell the sweat of indian workers and you urge people to bring them among other things deodorants ( the only item in bold characters) but then you become an example of tolerance and adaptation to a religion that in its most conversative interpretations still condemns a women to be stoned in public for adultery. The Kuran unlike the Bible never had any kind of critical later review leaving to interpretation substantial parts of its content.
Interpreting at the letter what was written 1600 years ago is stupid to say the least but authoritarian regimes ( ( the like the Dubai Middle Age autocracy ) normally take the more restrictive interpretation to serve their goals : keeping the masses belly on the ground. I suggest you to visit places where Islam and democracy exists togheter to understand better what Islam is.
Muslim migrating to Europe or the US are not forced to celebrate Christmas or to follow any Christian tradition and they have the riight to go to court if someone tryes to force them not to dress like Fantomas and mingle around in european cities scaring kids.
Try to go to court as a catholic in Dubai...
Sassy go back to your tea party...and do us all a favor open your sassy pilot wives forum and leave us alone...or at least me.

[Jetaim]

remember ..the Sun is the center of the solar system....and among your ancestors there was definetly a monkey....though not a so bright one..

[Jetaim]

The following is an extract of Sassy appeal to have clean indian slaves in Dubai.
I do understand your sassy nostrils sensitivity...

"In the next month, I would like to ask that any and all crew members in the UAE, begin collecting any hotel soaps, shampoos, sew kits, tissues, toothpaste, deodorants, BOTTLED WATER etc. I want to create goody bags for the laborers in the area. I would like to collect, create the bags and distribute as many as humanly possible during Ramadan. This is our chance to give back to those who, without their work, none of us would be here"

[jackx123]

check this out:

Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com)

J

[fatbus]

You guys need to get out more!

[TwoTone-7]

Fatbus - Definitely.

Looks like a well orchestrated smear campaign against sassypilotswife!

Nitro rig, there is no concept of a "borrowed country"

Swan man - again, how do you base the Kingdom as being the "holiest land" please do not say because of Makkah and Medinah!?

A380-800 the fundamental basis of most UAE countries is Islam. Therefore a requirement by the countries to respect it's religion. Similarly, when in the Vatican - there is a need to respect Christianity. Last I checked, there isn't a temple, mosque, synagogue in the Vatican!? You will find Christians and people of other religious belief in the Middle East. It seems you have bigger problem with religion which is beyond the scope of this thread.

Jetaim - To go off on a tangent and to start a smear campaign on sassypilotswife by using selected excerpts written by her in other threads is ludicrous.

You need to grow a set of ..............

The case in simple, we're all in the region for work, money. No one has forced us to be here. The rules are clear most of time and we know what to expect. If you do not like it, leave. It is simples.

TT-7

[metro301]

Two tone,

There is a mosque in Vatican city:

Is there a mosque in Vatican city (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_there_a_mosque_in_vatican_city)

[captainsmiffy]

....just stepping back a little in this thread, I hate to be pedantic but....isn't the earth an oblate spheroid (as opposed to 'round')? My understanding of the term is that it is slightly flattened at the poles.

There, that's a navigators training for you....! I dream of winning a lot of money one day with useless trivia like that!

[TwoTone-7]

The answer on answers.com is wrong. There is no mosque, temple, synagogue in the Vatican.

A380 Driver - Home - Grace Outreach Church (http://www.graceoutreachriyadh.com/)

And now back on topic, what do you suggest as a solution for those staying in the Middle East and unhappy with the rules of the land?

[TwoTone-7]

Apologies but it seems commonplace between you and your friends on this thread to pick up a petty excerpt and then use this in an attempt to discredit a fuller post.

It is my mistake, I meant to say countries in the Middle East and not UAE. It may appear that I may not be paying as much attention as you are to this thread.

Yes, I too am frustrated by a lot in the Middle East. Inconsistency is rife in most countries or it is simply amendments to existing rules.

[Alconguin Crusader]

You guys are not being accurate. There is probably no mosque or temple in Vatican City but there is also no church in Mecca.
There are plenty of mosques in Italy but hardly any (if any at all) churches in Saudi. Last time I checked crucifixes were illegal in Saudi and taken upon arrival.
It does not seem fair how Islam balances itself. The saying "you knew the rules when you joined and if you don't like it leave" is just crap. It is time the Arab lands respected us as we respect them.
Don't give me that religon crap. Not one Islamic country is democratic. It is just another way to keep the people down in the autocratic regimes that are sure to fall in the years to come.

[Neptunus Rex]

Not one Islamic country is democratic. Oh, really? How about Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, Banglaesh, Algeria and The Maldives. Some have even elected women Premiers, which has yet to happen in North America.

[gimmesumvalium]

My copy/paste from another thread:

If Muslims can demand to wear head-scarves/face veils in Europe, then we should also be able to consume alcohol in the Middle East. If we are not permitted, or limited and controlled, then this represents ultimate hypocrisy by the Arabs. Furthermore, if Muslims demand Western Civil liberties when in western countries, then Westerners should, in fairness, be permitted to eat and drink in public in Middle East countries during Ramadan. If not, double standards are being demanded / applied.

Standing by for banning by politically-controlled moderator.

[captainsmiffy]

How can they ban you for making perfect sense with a sane and logical arguement?!! :confused: Oh, I forgot...we're in the middle east!

[Alconguin Crusader]

Do you really think Pakistan, Banglesh and Alegeria are democratic? Pakistan is a failed state as we witnessed with bin Ladin. Bangleash can't even feed its people and who knows what Alegeria does.
I am reminded of the great Maggie Thachter back in the early 80's. Saudi using oil money wanted to spread the word of Islam and put mosques in western Europe. Thachter told the King of Saudi "when I hear church bells in Rhyiad you can put your mosque in London." We all know what has happened since with the 3rd world invasion and lack of leaders in the UK.
The islamicists need to look in the mirror. We in the west are the victims and we are playcading to the Arabs and their demands.

[abudubai]

.... talking about the sun: if you would like to calculate the sun's position in flight at any altitude - or if you'd like to know when the sun rises or sets during your flight - or if you'd like to calculate twilight start/end times (to inform passengers about imsak time in flight .... apple store: SuninFlight

[SassyPilotsWife]

LOL Sorry guys for the 3 questions that got you going. I was just being a bit facetious. Now on to Jetaim.

Dear Jetaim,

While i don't normally respond to such dimwit rants ( and you should know since you follow me around on here and I've never responded to your attacks before) let me make something clear.

No matter your opinion of my efforts to assist laborers in the UAE, it will continue and it is welcomed by many. Despite the power you think I have, I do not have the power to change the salaries, living conditions or working conditions.

You stated: " Even more you are a perfect example of the kind of people that in an effort to control the world population we should get rid off."

Should I be concerned ? Was that a personal threat?

You replied with: " remember ..the Sun is the center of the solar system....and among your ancestors there was definetly a monkey....though not a so bright one.."

You may want to tighten your own light bulb there sparky. You can't spell correctly and your grammar isn't any better.


And last but not least...

You reply with "Sassy go back to your tea party...and do us all a favor open your sassy pilot wives forum and leave us alone...or at least me.


Me leave you alone? Seriously ? I think you've got it backwards !


There is a huge difference in responding to someone's post on here, engaging in a debate and even having a disagreement. But when you are attempting to organize a smear campaign against someone, stalking them from thread to thread, you are making it personal. It became obvious after you came onto this thread posting from other threads diverting the issue here and attacking me. Not only in this thread, but others. I recommend it cease immediately. :=


If you have a personal issue with me, then take it there. Contact me directly. I've got bigger balls than you my dear, they're just attached to my chest :ok:

[captainsmiffy]

..can't type for laughing! Magnificent reply!

[Miss Aviator]

Quote:
"Not one Islamic country is democratic."

"Oh, really? How about Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, Banglaesh, Algeria and The Maldives. Some have even elected women Premiers, which has yet to happen in North America."

Don't forget Turkey is democratic and even had a female Prime Minister for a while as well.

[Swan Man]

Does anyone here have a problem with a Muslim fasting during a daylight flight to Europe? I recently went to the UK on the AM departure and the captain did not eat or drink all the way up to England. To top it off he was the pilot flying. So by the time we landed the fasting captain had gone almost 12 hours without any food or drink.
I was curious what the rules were. At the very least it is unsafe. I can't imagine what the lawyers would get out of Emirates moneytarlily if something did happen upon landing.
Also I thought if Muslims were traveling they did not have to fast. Dangerous concepts.

[captainsmiffy]

Indeed; you'll have your a**e kicked severely for turning up at work with even a trace alcohol (rightly so) but to fly an aeroplane in probably a worse state after a 12 hour fast is deemed acceptable. The world has gone mad; wonder what the UK CAA would think, knowing that aircraft are flying into the UK crewed by people in that state?

[rancid]

Sassy , :ok:

[amsm01]

The world has gone mad; wonder what the UK CAA would think, knowing that aircraft are flying into the UK crewed by people in that state?

Trust me on this - the answer is absolutely nothing, this is the CAA we're talking about after all.

[Kamelchaser]

Great reply Sassy :ok:

You show a level of intelligence that Jatiem can only dream about :D

Unfortunately there are too many morons who get on this site, speil a bunch of crap and show themselves up for the fools they really are.

[Rangerick1]

I lived here for over 2 years..it simple..resect their local culture or leave!!! you are a guest if you disagrea with their local rules too bad dont mess it up for the rest of us who are part of the community and have great relations with the locals. Since I am a Christian these same people love to celebrate my American Thanksgiving and Christmas with me, try to enjoy there special holiday with them it builds great bridegs..

[cerbus]

You have to question everything, especially in the middle east.
I have not personally seen any pilot not eat during daylight flights but have seen FAs fast which is bad enough.
Emirates should put out a FCI saying no one is allowed to fast while on company duty. It is just common sense which of course is lacking in the sand.
As another poster said I can not fly drunk but my blood sugar and energy can be completly empty to the point of being dullisional and Emirates says that is okay? Go figure!

[jackx123]

Assuming that the replies on democracy come from pilots, I must say I'm stunned on the low level intellect and certainly hope you don't exist on flight deck. Democracy is, put in simple terms, FREEDOM to the individual.

Islamic countries do not practice freedom - period. The reason is that there is NO difference between the Quran (Islam) and the state.

And please look up in webster what democracy means before you post.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

If you have a personal issue with me, then take it there. Contact me directly. I've got bigger balls than you my dear, they're just attached to my chest http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Glf

[Al Fakhem]

yet the Saudis were kicking up a huge stink when Switzerland was refusing to approve any more mosques.

Just for the record. The public referendum in Switzerland was NOT about restricting new mosques, it was about restricting minarets.