View Full Version : Pilatus PC 24 - new GA aircraft
7th Aug 2011, 17:23
Pilatus Unveils PC-24 | AVIATION WEEK (http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=busav&id=news/awx/2011/04/12/awx_04_12_2011_p0-309611.xml&headline=Pilatus%20Unveils%20PC-24)
Do you have any news about this? On some swiss forum they speculate, it will be twin.
7th Aug 2011, 18:15
Fair assumption it double a PC 12 so it will be twice as big with 2 of what the PC12 has including engines maybe#
We will wait and see#####
7th Aug 2011, 18:58
Pilatus announced in April allready, that the PC24 will be a twinengined Jet.
ONZ Obwalden und Nidwalden Zeitung - Ein Business-Jet made in Nidwalden (http://www.onz.ch/artikel/106732/)
I have been in Stans last Week, and somebody told me that they are planning it with a huge Cargo Door. Thatīs all that I know si far.
7th Aug 2011, 19:13
Will they dust of the old lear wing???
8th Aug 2011, 14:23
Is that where the Lear wing came from? I had heard, years ago, that it was a wing for a Swiss fighter that never got built.
21st Aug 2011, 16:16
Is anyone able to substantiate the cargo door and an idea of a time frame? I've been told in a round about way that first delivery will be in 5 years. Is this the case?
NZ X man
21st Aug 2011, 19:28
Yes I think the original LearJet was based on a swiss fighter called the FFAP-16, to be used for ground attack.
6th Jan 2012, 06:11
I too was over there in Stans last year, and spoke to a number of the marketing team, who I might add were quite tight-lipped. However, they told me that it would be a twin jet, with a large cargo door and aimed at a niche market. From that, I guessed that it would likely have some kind of rough field performance and possibly be some kind of enlarged PC-12.
I've since read in the aviation press that Pilatus are looking to develop the Grob SPN design. Who knows what will be the end result. Speculation is a wonderful thing don't you think?
One thing is for certain - Pilatus are a clever company and don't jump into anything lightly. They have a canny ability to provide niche aircraft that work, so I have no doubt they'll manage it again with the '24. Having said that, it would be a brave CEO to authorize a new-design business jet in this economic climate. They'll have to pull out all stops to make it special.
I'm waiting so see it, but won't be surprised if it is delayed a few years...
1st May 2012, 11:41
Western ops RFDS to be a launch customer!
22nd May 2012, 15:59
Hey guys I am new in this forum, a lot of interesting topics. I have worked several years at Pilatus and on the -24. It is funny how some marketing people may be tight, you would be able to get much more info simply asking the people in Stans or Buochs at the local supermarkets.
Anyway, it has been officially stated that the 2013 EBACE in Geneva will have a PC-24 mock up.
Mr Schwenk would kill to have the RFDS as the launch customer. Same as the PC-12. They may commit for an initial number of aircraft (maybe 2).
Pilatus is quite desperate...
During this EBACE I saw several Pilatus personnel (badges and all) taking or trying to take pictures of the Embraer Phenom 300. One even was taking a picture of windshield screws with a ruller mesuring the distances...
Embraer guys had a hard time with them...
Probably they are running after that already mentioned twin jet.
Let's wait and see!
22nd May 2012, 21:31
At some point we seriously suggested to buy a P300. It would have been a minor investment compared to the program cost. I am glad I am not working there anymore. I have the feeling that the -24 may drag Pilatus down. This is what happens when you put in charge arrogant people that have nothing but a history of failures (Eclipse and ATG Javelin).
The -24 is basically a Phenom 300 with a cargo door.
23rd May 2012, 07:58
The -24 is basically a Phenom 300 with a cargo door.
That sounds pretty useful actually. As long as it doesn't cost too much.
23rd May 2012, 15:41
The PC-12 had an unexpected enormous success. It was estimated to sell 200-250 aircraft. Pilatus sold over a 1000 and in years like 2008 2009 the order portfolio was over 120 aircraft per year.
Part of this success was due to its versatility, short field, cargo door, long range etc..The -12 NG has a fly away price that can top 5M USD.
The question is: is there a marketing need for a jet type bigger PC-12? Is an operator available to double the fly away price? What is the real advantage that an operator would have from a jet?
We need to keep in mind that a business jet with short field unpaved runways capabilities has to be designed ruggedized. This would penalize performances and range and material choice. You cannot use too much secondary composite structure if you want to take off and land from gravel.
In my opinion such a design is very difficult to achieve, Pilatus has a good knowledge of rough operations but absolutely no knowledge of business aviation.
In my opinion we may see a -24 certified design not before than 2018. When Pilatus will start to accept orders we will see how many operators will accept the risk. If there will be less than 100 pre-orders in 2015 the program risks to be seriously scrapped.
24th May 2012, 03:54
Nato is starting to look for a replacement for the C-12.Expect a large NATO order if the PC-24 can be made for under twenty seven million dollars.
Would probably be fitted with the usual swiss bank account numbers to the exec who is in charge of purchasing:}:}
21st May 2013, 10:27
as expected, single pilot certified, unpaved (!) & short field capable (2690 ft / 820m), Honeywell avionics, "barn-door" access to cargo - a twin jet aimed at the existing pc-12 niche. Rollout scheduled Q3 2014, flight testing Q4, delivery 2017. Options include a 10 seat commuter layout, 6-8 seat "executive", and an air ambulance version.
MTOW 17650 lbs / 8050 kg, Range (4 pax 800 lbs): 1950 nm, Max payload 2500 lbs / 1135 kg
specs: Welcome to Pilatus Aircraft Ltd (http://www.pilatus-aircraft.com/#278) pdf: http://www.pilatus-aircraft.com/01-api/00modules/pressarticles/1.0/files/pdf/PC-24-Fact-Sheet.pdf
orders will be accepted 2014, list price approx. USD 8.9 mill.
Thanks for the links Deptrai.
The PC-24 is massive for a $9m single-pilot jet. It's a midsize, dwarfs the P300 and CJ4. See the size comparator down the page in Deptrai's first link, the "welcome to Pilatus" one
21st May 2013, 13:31
Looks good to me I'll take one ...I wish :)
21st May 2013, 16:10
Ok I ask again... who needs it ? Really... I can foresee a few niche applications but where it comes to it's unique features a good turboprop can do the job for a much lower price tag (assuming not only purchase price but operational costs)...
I am probably missing something so comments / flame most welcome :)
21st May 2013, 17:42
Also one of the very few "build from scratch" aircraft that don't have winglets...
I have the feeling that the Citation XLS, CJ4 and Phenom 300 can do the job already and the PC-24 has no real advantage over those apart from a possibly loyal and wealthy customer base. From what I heard about the PC-12 the quality of the product and materials used are very good and comparing that to the (sometimes...) cheap looking Phenom 300 interiour (Plastic panels, fake leather, easy to scratch tables, galley with fake wood, etc) it might be an advantage.
Apart from that a very sexy looking plane with decent price and specifications...
21st May 2013, 19:26
Ok I ask again... who needs it ?
Would be good in parts of West Africa. That door looks almost wide enough to take a No.1 wife...
22nd May 2013, 11:51
Sure, there's a lot of small jets, and Pilatus doesn't know much about the business jet market, but they know their existing customers.
Some people like to buy an SUV even if they only drive in big cities, and never off-road. Part of Pilatus' owner-operator customer base may be "vanity-driven" to some degree...why not, it will be a very nice aircraft even if you don't plan to use it on grass strips every day, or if a turboprop could have done the same job (some people may still want a jet). I'm sure Pilatus have done extensive market research, and based this design on feedback from existing customers. They have a loyal customer base, and many may simply want to upgrade to the newest model, or to an even bigger cabin - the "deluxe" option (as opposed to the "economy" single turboprob pc-12). From a product line perspective, the PC-24 complements the PC-12, rather than cannibalizing it.
There's the obvious customers, like emergency services/govt agencies in remote areas in countries like Canada and Australia (should be an almost perfect fit), and there's probably a market for freight, things like shipping replacement parts in remote areas all over the world. The PC-24 could be interesting for charterers, not only for freight, but for business trips. I'm thinking about Indonesia, Russia, China, India. Brazil, and other countries where infrastructure hasn't kept up with economic development, for oil/mining etc. Possibly (?) there could also be military uses, Pilatus has good contacts.
The PC-12 was far more successful than anticipated. The PC-24 is a risk for Pilatus, but I assume a calculated one, and if I was a competitor, I'd be cautious about simply discarding it and assuming "no one needs this" and "few will buy it" - which might not be an optimal strategy, better prepare for competition. It's an offering which doesn't exist yet - a short field capable, "rugged" light jet with with a large cabin, an in-flight accessible, large, pressurized cargo compartment, and a barn door. Hard to say how many will need it, but it's a different, and flexible aircraft, there may be uses others haven't thought of. Entrepreneurial operators can carve out new market niches for it (I'm not very creative, all that comes to my mind right now is the South American...ahem...premium coffee trade, the PC-24 must be a good choice for smugglers; but others will certainly find better uses for it). Seriously, specs and price seem competitive, and it isn't a "me too" product, it has some unique selling points. Sales to various different market segments may just add up.
Finally, there were more than thousand (2500?) orders for the Grob 180 SP, if I remember correctly; before the prototype crashed, and they went bust. Pilatus is a bit more conventional, and conservative in their approach to design and engineering, I doubt they'll make the same mistakes Grob did. But I think the interest In Grob demonstrated that there could be a demand for this kind of aircraft.