A question about lifestyle at EK

[Mach_Krit]

Hi all,

I have done a lot of research on EK and am seriously considering joining.
I have unfortunatly been given some disturbing "facts" by somone that knows someone that was there and left after one year very unhappily. I know its probably a whole lot of B.S.

So if I can ask you EK guys for a few answers to my questions:

1.) Is it true that EK controls your every move in your free time?
2.) Is it true that EK checks who and when comes to visit you?
3.) Is it true that EK go through your apartment and go through your things when you are not there?
4.) As a married FO I know I am entitled to an aparment. Do only EK staff live in the building?
5.) Is it true that EK prohibit Alcohol consumption at home? ( Now I believe that is absolute B.S.)
6.) Do you generally feel under surveillance from EK?
7.) Is it true that contact to the locals is generally not welcome?

I am pretty sure that none of the above is really true, couldnt imagine anyone in their right mind staying any longer than 2 days.


Thanks for your time in advance!

[skyvan]

Points 1-7:- NO, absolute garbage!

if your friend of a friend was a paranoid little twerp, those points would still not be true.

Some people fit in, others don't.

The EK psych profiling is fairly accurate, but those are of the pilot only, not of his family. So far, they seem quite accurate in getting people who are able to make a good go of it. Those who bail out early tend to have problems at home (happy wife=happy life), rather than with EK or Dubai.

[fatbus]

I second what Skyvan says!

[Jet II]

skyvan is correct - all points are garbage.

[fourgolds]

Actually it depends how you view " control your every move"

Fact , you are to notify EK if you leave Dubai on your days off . I have never hreard of them saying no. However you had better meet the requirements of the flight time limitation policy and comply with the day off requirements ( being acclimatised etc) , or you may face disciplinary action. ( So are you really free to move as you like on your days off ?)

Fact , EK security do keep a record on who visits any EK buiding . Although they do tend to turn a blind eye to the pilots , however should the need arise they have the required records .

You may drink alchohol in your apartment ( you require an alchohol licence) , however should something get out of hand , see fact 2 above.

I would say the way you posted it based on your research is paranoia , however I believe the people that answered you were a little to blah se about the facts.

EK do know about you , So does the UAE government ( its a little more subtle though. For example when you purchase alchohol they know exactly how much you purchased ( handy info if you think about it).
EK do have access to UAE immigration , so they can determine ( if they require it) if you are in or out the country.

Genereally they leave you alone , but give them a reason and they are all over you with an amazing amount of " facts" about you .

[cerbus]

Dubai is a 3rd world police state and they do know your every move. Do they act on it? Depends. If they want to get you they act on their information but generally if you play by the rules and keep your head below the radar you will not get bothered.
There is always that threat though so do be careful.
They can go through your apartment ANYTIME they want to as again it is a police state and you have no rights. Generally they do not as long as you are not dealing drugs or talking to al Quada.
Emirates is basically the same with the lack of rights. They do whatever they want to.

[Jetaim]

Fully agree..experimented on my own skin.
They are the atcual paranoids. Big brother whatching you. Be carefull.
If you are a blind idiot just having orgams cause you seat on shiny tube of aluminium you might not realize it or care about it.. see the above replies.
All points presented are true either to a lesser or higher extent.

[Wizofoz]

They can go through your apartment ANYTIME they want to as again it is a police state and you have no rights. Generally they do not as long as you are not dealing drugs or talking to al Quada.


How is that different from the USA or indeed any other Western Country?

[nolimitholdem]

Like all things in that part of the world, the truth is sort of a murky, shifting concept. If you take the somewhat inflammatory questions directly, they are not entirely true. But they are DEFINITELY not "absolute garbage", telling you that is just as deceitful.

1.) Is it true that EK controls your every move in your free time?

It is not so much they will control your every move in your free time, it is that they will definitely completely control how much free time you HAVE, and that amount only ever decreases. They will squeeze every last bit of duty from you they can, and that "free time" will be spent recovering if you're single and explaining to your wife and kids why daddy looks so old, if you're married. Who controls your free time is kind of a moot point when you rarely have any.

2.) Is it true that EK checks who and when comes to visit you?

If you or the person you are visiting lives in company accommodation, this is absolutely true. You are required to log in and out of the building/compound, much like visiting hours at any detention facility. Flight deck crew must leave cabin crew accommodation before 1am. (The opposite generally does not apply.)

3.) Is it true that EK go through your apartment and go through your things when you are not there?

EK security guards and maintenance routinely enter your accommodation while you are not there, ostensibly to perform maintenance on the a/c or whatever thing has broken that day. Since the quality of original construction and repairs is what would be expected in any third world country, expect to have strangers poking around your home regularly while you are not there. They are required to leave a notice of such visits, if that makes you feel better. Suggest installing CCTV as I found it helped keep everyone honest - use their own tactics on them.

4.) As a married FO I know I am entitled to an aparment. Do only EK staff live in the building?

Depends what building you are given. Most are 100% EK staff, some are not.

5.) Is it true that EK prohibit Alcohol consumption at home? ( Now I believe that is absolute B.S.)

If you've already made up your mind as to the answer, why do you ask? Anyway, the actual answer is no. But the draconian alcohol laws have been well-covered elsewhere. Wise to have an alcohol license, not as wise to buy it from the local government shops: taxed at 30%, and monitored. Duty-free is the way to go.

6.) Do you generally feel under surveillance from EK?

Yes. But not only EK, it is the general culture to be nosy, invasive, always gathering information far beyond that what is necessary to achieve whatever it is you are trying to do. George Orwell seems almost quaintly understated. Brits should be used to pervasive CCTV watching one's every move, but many cultures find it a bit odd to have the Eye In The Sky watching them at their home, place of work, and common places of leisure. Keep your head down and you'll PROBABLY be ok...and learn to live with the constant low-grade stress of that statement.

7.) Is it true that contact to the locals is generally not welcome?

You should as a rule hope to not have any contact, as for several of my colleagues the only "contact" they had with locals was when one rear-ended them with their car at a stoplight.


In spite of all this people do adapt and find a way to survive. But if any of these factors are important to you, dismissing them lightly would be a mistake.

[White Knight]

NLH - Are you always this paranoid?



Quote:
7.) Is it true that contact to the locals is generally not welcome?

You should as a rule hope to not have any contact, as for several of my colleagues the only "contact" they had with locals was when one rear-ended them with their car at a stoplight.

I know many Emiratis - all of them generous, kind and friendly! I will agree however that, as anywhere, there are a few bad apples in the applecart. Mainly on SZ Rd:E

EK security guards and maintenance routinely enter your accommodation while you are not there, ostensibly to perform maintenance on the a/c or whatever thing has broken that day

Not around these villas:hmm::hmm:

And this from Fourgolds; EK do know about you , So does the UAE government ( its a little more subtle though. For example when you purchase alchohol they know exactly how much you purchased ( handy info if you think about it).


Only if you buy at MMI or A&E in Dubai - you want to try the Barracuda or Al Hamra in RAK and pay cash. No big deal is it?


Some of you chaps really need to get a grip:{:{

[fourgolds]

....and off course driving back from Barracuda through SHJ cannot land you in jail either.

You know what , dont listen to any one here stating the facts. Its the land of milk and honey , you can enjoy all the freedom your heart desires. its all lies lies lies. Just hurry on over so we can get some relief to or rosters. Please its just the greatest job in the world. Nothing at all wrong with it. Please come on over as soon as you can. We have the biggest shiny jets out there.

[Wizofoz]

You know what , dont listen to any one here stating the facts. Its the land of milk and honey , you can enjoy all the freedom your heart desires. its all lies lies lies. Just hurry on over so we can get some relief to or rosters. Please its just the greatest job in the world. Nothing at all wrong with it. Please come on over as soon as you can. We have the biggest shiny jets out there.

You see, you lose it right here, fourgolds. You state a bunch of "Facts "while putting the worst possible conetations on them. WK comes and ALSO states facts, but as they aren't whiney enough for you, you come up with the diatribe above.

It's known as a straw man. State someone has said something they haven't and then attack what you SAID they stated.

No-one is saying EK is perfect. Some of what you say has some truth (though could you give one example of where this supposed Orwellian gathering of information has EVER been used against an EK pilot, or indeed any ex-pat living here?).

You have a beef and present things with a particular slant. Others who feel differently give there own opinion. Why does that upset you so much?

[fourgolds]

Not a negative word from me. Listen only to people like Wiz , he has his finger on the pulse. Whatever you do when doing your research , do not listen to any one elses experiences. Yours will be heaven , we have big shiny jets . But please , just hurry on over.

"The difference between an optimist and a pessimist is experience"

[Wizofoz]

Not a negative word from me. Listen only to people like Wiz , he has his finger on the pulse. Whatever you do when doing your research , do not listen to any one elses experiences. Yours will be heaven , we have big shiny jets . But please , just hurry on over.



Once again, neither I nor anyone else suggested any such thing.

People come here seeking opinions from ALL sides about Aviation matters. You SHOULD express yours, just do so factually and rationally, and accept that if people dis-agree with you they will say so.

Do you suggest that ONLY people who feel like you should express themselves here?

[Instant Hooligan]

How is that different from the USA or indeed any other Western Country?

Factually and rationally???


Reasonable cause, due process and the assumption of innocence that's how it's different.

[InnocentBystander]

For one you can move out of company accom anytime you want. All you need to give them is a point where the driver picks you up, you don't even need to live in Dubai, the company does not care where you live.

If you elect to stay in company accom you can change the locks and nobody will ever enter your appartement without you being present except in emergency (Fire, smoke etc.). Locks are 25dhs at Dragon Mart, changing them takes 5 minutes.

If you pay cash, nobody can trace where or how much alcohol you buy or consume (There are stores who sell alcoholic beverages without a liquor license).

Observing FDT limitations and tighter rosters is the same at any airline, it's not exclusive to EK.

Sure, CID keeps a close tab on everyone, but that comes with the trerritory; you are in the middle east after all, and any terrorist attack would finish Dubais reputation as a safe haven. I'd think that surveillance is even tighter in the UK, there are CCTV's everywhere.

Just be realistic about it and you'll be fine.

[Wizofoz]

So, you've heard of the Patriot act (and the wire taps that were even illegal under IT) right?

[Instant Hooligan]

Yes wiz, and those that were affected by illegal wiretaps, if they so choose, can persue legal action for recompense and damages. The operative word in your sentence being "illegal". Something that just ain't the case here and you know it.
The Murdoch group and it's senior managers are finding out that right now.
So it appears there is a difference. In one place it's illegal and the other it's just done.
I don't really care which you advocate for but please don't compare the legal recourse here to that of the west.

[InnocentBystander]

Reasonable cause, due process and the assumption of innocence that's how it's different.

You're not serious about that, right? That went out the window long time ago. There were at one point hundreds of prisoners in Gitmo that had no reasonable cause, no due process and no assumption of innocence, let alone basic human rights. We won't even talk about torture etc in secret CIA prisons. And don't even start with the SEVEN different US intelligence agencies that are spying on everyone, US citizens included.

But that has nothing to do with EK and/or Dubai, so please lets stay on topic.

[Instant Hooligan]

Innocent, having quoted the gitmo situation you will also presumably be aware of why they were sent to Gitmo in the first place.
A non US territory, thus denying them the right to the laws granted to those in the US.

Wiz asked how it was different and the very fact they have to send them to Gitmo highlights that fact excellently.

I certainly aint saying the Gitmo situation is right, but it does highlight that there are laws to abide by in the west and recourse if broken.

Regards
IH

[Instant Hooligan]

Yep, but i never said it was right. Again Wiz asked how was it different. I think that point has been well highlighted by you guys.

Again I don't think it's right, but the fact they have to get "creative" to circumvent the laws shows why it's different.

[Wizofoz]

IH,

Yes, that's fair.Different and with fewer individual rights.

That ALSO means tougher on crime with the resultant low crime rate.

Would you rather the States and other Western Countries were tougher on crime, or are individual liberties more important?

[Instant Hooligan]

It's a fine balance Wiz, personally I think the west has gone to far with some individual rights overshadowing the needs of the majority but that's a whole different can of worms!

Slippery slopes and all that.
Regards
IH

[White Knight]

....and off course driving back from Barracuda through SHJ cannot land you in jail either.

Well, only if you 'flip the bird' to someone as you pass through. Do you SERIOUSLY think the SHJ police have nothing better to do than look out for western expats with 1,000 dhm of beer in the back of their 4x4s????

This, fourgolds, is classic urban myth:p:p

Like I said - get a grip. For all of you conspiracy theorists; I hear Carrefour are selling tin-foil hats very cheaply during 'summer surprises':D:D

[Wizofoz]

Geez IH Civil discourse and near consensus reached on PPRUNE!!

Carefull, people have been banned for less!

Cheers,

Wiz.

[falconeasydriver]

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourgolds
....and off course driving back from Barracuda through SHJ cannot land you in jail either.

Well, only if you 'flip the bird' to someone as you pass through. Do you SERIOUSLY think the SHJ police have nothing better to do than look out for western expats with 1,000 dhm of beer in the back of their 4x4s????


And of course if you are a paranoid you can avoid SHJ pretty much all together, its called the bypass road.

This place is what you make of it, and just in the same way as there are rules to be obeyed, it goes both ways, FTL's included i.e. you can use them to your own advantage.

[fourgolds]

keep drinking the cool aid boys . as I said none of anything any one has mentioned has ever happened to any expat here.its all myths and lies . you will have all the freedoms your heart desires. you live in a minefield and will never stand on a mine , ever. Come on over.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Every city in every country that I have worked, covering most of the world, is different.

One should adapt to the environment that one finds onself working in.

My home in EU has Islamic majority. I would not feel safe there nowadays.

The UAE is a lot better than most, and very safe. A friend was car jacked last week. in Sharjah. No booze in car, but all his documents. So times cane change.......

The culture in any country should be respected, given that proviso, I prefer the UAE to most.

As to EK, well there is all the PP posts to alert you as to what the vocals consider important. How many EK staff have computers: how many post on PP....

Come on over, and give us a try, we don't bite, except after a long night shift...

glf

[Craggenmore]

But the draconian alcohol laws have been well-covered elsewhere...

Yes, my wife and I often have to avoid large gangs of drunk Dubai revellers engaging in mass brawls across the city after closing time, where glassing and bottling each other require a large Police presence to restore order..!!

[falconeasydriver]

Your sooo right Craggy, gee it reminds me of my youf growing up in da hood in norf lundun.
Yep, this place is bad alright, you cant even loot like you can in Nam, thats Totten..nam

[Craggenmore]

innit....!

(Falcon...this should make you homesick....BBC News - Riots in Tottenham after Mark Duggan shooting protest (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14434318))

[woodja51]

So.... ??? If the government doesn't like the freedom entitled by the US laws it enacts, it just send folks somewhere the rules dont apply to get at them?

So much for "all men are created equal, inalienable rights.. etc life liberty and the pursuit of happiness ?"

That seems an even more obscene abuse of the so called "rule of law" than just shooting them dead in combat.... which is also enshrined in some oath.." to defend the constitution against all enemies domestic and foreign" No I am not a yank - but seen plenty of movies!

As far as the paranoia here, I have had run ins ( good ones) with CID/Police etc , flat mates dragged away from the villa due to drugs and stuff years ago.... and they were really good about it.

If you can find a Government that does not spy on its citizens to some extent good luck..!!

Life in DXB is what you make of it - keep below the radar and all is well but if they need to use the laws to kick you out they will. Its called risk management on your part .

And also, having a booze licence doesnt allow you to be pissed in public.. the licence just allows you to "purchase and transport liquor to your home.".. look at the fine print.. the consumption , and even offering it to your friend who then drives home pissed and gets in a prang can land you in a bit of heat. Now how much trouble is another matter...WJA

PS if you treat the police here with a modicum of respect then they are pretty good in my experience - they make some plods back in the real world look like priks (sic)

[Instant Hooligan]

So.... ??? If the government doesn't like the freedom entitled by the US laws it enacts, it just send folks somewhere the rules dont apply to get at them?


I think that sums it up. Again I don't agree with it and on a totally different note...

The 6 month period from 30th Jan to 30th July the seniority list grew a total of ........... wait for it 174 pilots.

Thats not to say they didn't recruit more but the sum total of joiners to leavers was 174.

How many did we want to hire again? does anybody have the figures they listed?

Regards
IH

[Wizofoz]

OB,

Nope. EK do a thorough screening before giving you an offer. If there were any possibility of being rejected for a Vissa, you wouldn't get the offer.

I've not heard of anyong joining being rejected.

It IS an enourmous pain- particularly getting your marridge attested- and best advice is to get as much as possible done before you leave you home country.

[BeCareful]

OnceBitten, if you or spouse have or had active TB at some point that they'd show up on residency visa chest X-ray, you'd get denied. Same if your blood test came back positive for HIV or Hepatitis C...

Other than that, nothing to worry about.

[SassyPilotsWife]

HEP C is not included in deportation. They will let you stay pending medical treatment. They concluded in 2010 that Hep B and C needed to be dropped from the deportation rule due to so many different genotypes that produce different results.

I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact that the majority of people walking this earth have it and don't even know it. And if even half of them are expats coming from western countries with common sense, they are needed here.

[White Knight]

keep drinking the cool aid boys

No! Keep drinking the beer:ok::ok: Well, that's what I do:cool: