A Woodford visit before it closes

[igarratt]

Flew over to Woodford yesterday and got a perfect day for it, took my little video cam along and put the results up onto youtube, also got some pictures, the in flight ones aren’t too good as they are just stills from the video.
ATC where the most helpful ATSU I’ve come across and was a real privilege to have the whole airfield and it’s services all to myself

Hope to be able to get back there before the 25th, though to get any better shots I’ll probably need a camera man … oops camera person : .
Flight through Manchester CTA was mostly uneventful and I even managed to get a direct track Woodford to Liverpool on the way back, well you don’t get if you don’t ask.

Was rather interesting being downwind at Woodford and seeing the Manchester final approach so close though it hasn’t shown up on the video mostly due to the haze layer.

Was nice to be back at Woodford been a number of years since I was working there when it was in full production mode, strange to see it now so dead and deserted.
I’m trying to get involved as much as possible with pushing to keep some GA on the site and am hopeful that something may come of it I just hope it’s not in 5 years time when that perfectly kept runway has deteriorated and fell into ruin.

Regards

Ian

[trex600]

Im gonna make visiting Woodford a priority over the next week or so,
Great vid and pic's!
Might have to PM OP to know what Manch will expect :)

[gingernut]

Really enjoyed the video.:)

[KeyPilot]

Does Woodford close on 25-Aug?

I see the various NOTAMS all have end date 25th, but if it was confirmed to close then I would have expected to see a NOTAM from 20110825 to PERM saying "AD CLOSED".

Also I seem to recall dates of end-year and Feb-2012.

Anyone have kosher knowledge of the true picture?

[KeyPilot]

BTW thanks to igaratt - wicked pictures!

[Morris542]

Fantastic photos! I've just looked at my chart and seen how close Woodford is to Manchester airport itself. Must have been good fun passing over an airport such as that.

[mark25787]

Fantasic video. Great variation of approaches - pure enjoyment flying!!!
Thumbs up to Woodford for being so accommodating.

[igarratt]

Yep that was I !

I too did my first circuit there way back when, was perfectly placed as I learnt to fly at manchester back when they welcomed the tidlers !
Nothing like being chased by dragonair cargo 747 while on the way to the hold :ok:

Your pics look great I so need a better camera !

[benppl]

Looks cool!

[igarratt]

youtube video is now back online, was hidden for a while at the request of bae :roll:

In the process of making part two, should be up by next week. No word on the Vulcan so I'm now making space on my front lawn lol

Ian

(http://www.eps.hopto.org/cpl)

[It's only Me]

I wanted to go, do a few circiuts and land. However, as someone had taken photos, despite the no photo rule, and posted them on the net, I was not allowed!

Me

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I was all set to go in there today in our Chippy. Phoned ATC on Tuesday and they said it should be OK, touch and goes only, but re-check today (the last day of operation). They didn't mention a 'no photo' rule and indeed I'd intended to take some had I gone in today.

As it happens events overtook me and I was unable to fly today due other commitments.

Were they still allowing T&Gs? Did anyone go in there today?

[J31 MAN]

G-CPTM just taken off as last ever movement. Controller signed off with "Cheerio Woodford".:{

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

The last ever movement a PA28? Let's hope that isn't really the end of aviation at this historic site.

[Sir George Cayley]

It ain't over till the fat controller sings. Lets all hold our breath:ok:

SGC

[J31 MAN]

Have you heard anything about possible future flying, Sir George?

[igarratt]

I've heard some positive stories, some involving a certain FTO that is already at woodford and will be staying there long term.
From what I understand in regard to BAE there is very little chance that while they still own the property they will permit any ops to go on, I gather this is all down to liability and bae not wanting to take any risks.

My personal hope is that 'someone' will purchase the land, either the whole site to sell it off in bits of just the airfield and then lease it out.

There are a number of us that if this was proposed have the skills knowledge, finances and time to run a successful airfield and flying school but sadly not the finances to buy the site.

It would be great if this could happen sooner rather than later, based on the fact that we dont want to place to go to ruin but there is a long winded public consultation and planning process that mcr city council is running and the expected date to even get a firm decision on whats going to happen on the site is not due until late 2012.

If I should get any more info or developments I'll post them on this thread and/or if anyone has any ideas or possible investors that are interested in a GA solution feel free to drop me a PM

Regards Ian

[Sir George Cayley]

Don't tell anyone, but I've heard a rumour about some background interest.

Sir George Cayley

[avturboy]

QUOTE ... "It would be great if this could happen sooner rather than later, based on the fact that we dont want to place to go to ruin but there is a long winded public consultation and planning process that mcr city council is running and the expected date to even get a firm decision on whats going to happen on the site is not due until late 2012."

Sorry I don't meant to be pedantic but this is nothing to do with Mrc city Council, this is the link to the consultation document with regards to the future of the site ..

Future Woodford | Woodford Aerodrome - its past, present and future (http://www.futurewoodford.co.uk/)

I am a local resident, about 3 miles from my front door to the main gate at Woodford, I'm a life long aviation nutcase, I first visited the site in the early 70's, I currently work in the aviation fuel industry. as much as I would love to see something retained from the demise of the Woodford site I really can't see that happening in the current harsh reality of the economic climate we are living in.

Given the historic links to aviation icons such as the Lancaster Vulcan and more recently the Nimrod, it seems quite incredible that we should let these links with the past disappear, but in the harsh reality of today's economic climate there is no financially viable option to save and preserve any part of this iconic contribution to our aviation history. That is such a shame when you think of the millons that have been raised to keep one Vulcan flying; if the plan had been to leave a serviceable Vulcan to the public in the first place then it would have been so much easier to keep one airborne; but it wasn't thought of at the time.

The same is true now, it would cost to try and keep the runway out of the developers hands, but there is no cash to do that right now .... but in years to come someone might think that the preservation of at least part of Woodford would be a worthy cause; but it'll cost ten times more then than now ...

The current problem is that GA in the UK is on its backside, it is tough enough for existing operations to survive form day to day, the thought that anyone has the time (and certainly the money) to be forward thinking seems like something of a pipe dream ..

I sincerely wish that was not the case ... but I know form what I see at work every day ... to preserve any part of Woodford is going to be a monumental struggle ... I'm sure I'm like many others ... I have time and enthusiasm to offer but I don't have a bottomless pit of cash which I think is the most important aspect of preserving any future aspect of Woodford

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

avturboy, I agree with what you say. To save the runway for business and recreational GA requires vision. The real estate is worth far more as development land than as an airfield, but it's not as simple as that.

Consider high speed rail, as built extensively in most of mainland Europe and battling against nimbys (HS2) in UK; it will be unlikely to pay for itself though fares, but it will pay many times over in the incresed efficiency of business through increased rail capacity (currently overloaded). In other words, UK plc will reap the benfits in more jobs, more business, more prosperity.

The same applies to a GA business airfield in this region. London has many such airfields - Biggin Hill, Blackbush, White Waltham, Booker to name a few. Uniquely, the manchester / Liverpool connubation has only short, muddy, Barton, and anti-GA Manchester. Liverpool JL is too far from Manchester for business, and in any case is rapidly moving to the same anti-GA model as Manchester.

There is no other similar-sized connurbation in UK that lacks a business airfield. Here is a great opportunity to provide a catalyst for the economic growth of the Manchester / Liverpool corridor. Who could step in and make it happen?

[avturboy]

SSD, I understand what you say about the bigger picture around the provision of aviation facilities, I think we have a common recognition about the need for vision. However in the current climate I'm just not sure where the folks with both the vision and funding are to be found.

I have a good understanding of the provision of facilities at other locations, in particular the 'satellite' facilities around London; relating this to MAN is a classic chicken vs. egg situation. The problem as I see it is who is going to demonstrate the vision (with the appropriate financial backing) to provide the facilities many of us would like to see.

For anyone to step up to the plate will require one of two options, either someone with more money than sense who simply has a passion for aircraft and is willing to speculate; or; someone who has the money and is willing to recognise there is a strong (documented) business case which demonstrates there is an underlying demand for facilities which needs to be met.

The problem is that I don't see the lack of GA & business GA facilities close to MAN being cited as a major disincentive to business development in the north west. Between, motorways and public transport by both air and rail MAN (on paper at least!) is well provided for.

A successful GA field in the vicinity of MAN would first be a GA business hub that would also offer facilities to the wider recreational GA community. Sadly at this moment in time I can see there is an 'interest' in such a facility but I'm not that the interest can be converted into real demand.

[Sir George Cayley]

GA in all parts of the UK is struggling, that's true. But not at the high end. I've been to London City, Farnboro', Luton, Biggin and Oxford recently and they were all busy with jets a coming and a going. Most impressive was TAGs apron which on the day I was there appeared almost full.

Clearly London is the major destination for travelers of high net worth, but the exec traffic at MAN isn't that sparse.

Slots are in demand during peak hours at MAN so who knows what a move to WFD would do to availability?

Although Mcr City Council has nothing to do with the runway, which sits in Cheshire and under the Macclesfield Local Planning Authourity, the production factory and offices do come under Manchester's LPA. It's this bit that could well see developers building a mixed housing, retail and business scheme. BAe will be well aware of the sales potential and price accordingly.

Macclesfield BC and the good people nearby in Poynton, Adlington, Mottram St Andrew and Wagbury don't want to see the same happening in their back yard and have suddenly found the airfield acceptable after all these years:ok:

It's by no means game over yet. The one certainty is that BAe Systems don't figure in Woodford's long term future; they want rid.

Sir George Cayley

[igarratt]

Thank you Sir George Cayley and Shaggy Sheep Driver very worthwhile posts and points of view that reflect mine.

The runway is actually split right down the middle by Stockport MBC and Cheshire East

A nice picture is at http://www.eps.hopto.org/flight/woodford/airportsplit.jpg

The additional areas of Northern meds and Southern meds are the areas that come under Stockport MBC and are highly likely to be come housing etc, while all decisions and promises can be changed it is assumed and stated in multiple places that the other areas of Woodfords foot print will not be built on.

While we can see that a runway strip could come from Stockport MBC or Cheshire East fig 2:http://eps.hopto.org/flight/woodford/Poynton-Bypass-Route.jpg

shows that the new Poynton bypass (if/when built) has had to go around the Woodford site by some distance and I think It’s quite likely this will now go directly though the runway, in addition it would I’m sure from a pilots view and for the neighbours not to have the final approach / climb out area directly over Poynton !

Cheshire East I believe prefers nice green pastures for the cows where Stockport side more with development.

I share you opinion that GA is far from doom and gloom, Oxford Aviation expanding at Woodford, Multi flight new base at Blackpool, 2 local flying schools buying brand new a/c due to demand and personally plenty of new PPL/Commercial students coming in the door.

Last movement….. lets say “for now” :) was a PA28 G-CPTM some pictures of it and the other visitors that came to say goodbye at http://www.civilianaviation.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&p=26272 (http://www.civilianaviation.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&p=26272)


Never mind SSD maybe the Chippy
can be the first to land at the new Woodford airfield :)



Avturboy: the thought that anyone has the time (and certainly the money) to be forward thinking seems like something of a pipe dream ..



Avturboy, you are correct I am a bit of a dreamer, I guess maybe like many pilots on here. Personally I find it hard to believe that anyone that has learnt how to fly at some point has not been at least a little bit of a dreamer.:ok:

Ian

[avturboy]

Ian, I admire you positive outlook regarding a possible future for Woodford. My views are based on my own experiences with around 20 years experience in my end of the aviation industry. But I accept that it is the persistence of good folks like yourself that does sometimes result in an unexpected positive outcome.

I understand your comment about dreaming and it is just as well that there are 'dreamers' in the world. I am not a pilot, one of my frustrations in life, though I have couple of friends who are ppl's. In fact I know a dreamer who made it big time, went from driving fuels trucks to driving wide bodies for Sir Richard ... so I know extraordinary outcomes are possible.

I sincerely wish you all the best!

Oh, and thanks for the link to the pictures on the last day.

[stickandrudderman]

So, what happened? Is Woodford closed to A/C forever?

[avturboy]

Hopefully not ... the site has been now been sold, article linked below

JCB heir acquires BAE Woodford for £100m | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/business/s/1468479_jcb-heir-acquires-bae-woodford-for-100m)

Given that this is a rumour website, then the rumour is that the new owners would keep the runway operational for their own corporate aircraft and offer the facilities for use by others. The catchment area around the site is a particularly affluent part of the region, so it might work.